"Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

andrewnummelin
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Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:43 am

"Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby andrewnummelin » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:14 pm

Some fifteen years ago I bought the Angenoria Models kit AM2/4 of this loco but I have only recently started work on it. I believe the kit (upgraded?) is available from CSP Models.

Apart from the obvious difficulties arising from building a kit designed for OO, I've hit some problems that are not helped by the instructions not being complete - it appears they should have been printed 2 sided but all the second sides are blank. As I have a decent amount of published information on the prototype I thought I would be OK, but the kit seems not to match the prototype in significant ways: does the kit have errors or is my information not appropriate? I wonder if any of the members of the forum have built one of these kits and could help me out.

1. the footplate arrangement around the smokebox in the kit appears incorrect (but I think I'll have to live with that)
2. the boiler underside in the kit is too short (28mm, the prototype was 8'3")
3. the kit firebox is much too tall and would have a right angle between the back and wrapper
firebox.jpg

4. a motor will not fit in the firebox vertically in the way described in the kit
5. I can't identify some etched parts because of the bits missing from the instructions
unidentified parts.jpg
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Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: "Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:23 pm

Andrew
I've built a couple of Agenoria kits, the last was a Peckett W4. At the time, Roger Slade did warn me that as it was essentially a 4mm version shot down from a 7mm kit I'd need to work a few things out.
In the end I installed a High Level motor horizontally and made the boiler underside integral with the footplate and split from the saddle tank.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Trojan kit shares a few of the Peckett's idiosyncrasies. The firebox just looks wrong but hopefully you've room to manoeuvre a gear train through it.
That said the chassis never were any bother at all!
I've got a test etch for the Kitson 0-4-0 ex Cardiff Railway 1338 to build at some point when I can source some fittings

andrewnummelin
Posts: 374
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:43 am

Re: "Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby andrewnummelin » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:19 am

Andrew,

Thanks for the comments. Fixing the boiler to the frames is a good suggestion - my High Level gearbox was accompanied by the instructions from one of their kits showing how it could be done.

While taking photos of Trojan I took the opportunity to record the loco next to it. Feel free to use any that are on my web site if they can help with your Cardiff loco - I’ve always fancied seeing that valve gear working.
http://www.andrew.nummelin.me.uk/Cardiff/No5/index.php
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

Andrew Ullyott
Posts: 225
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Re: "Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:52 pm

Thanks Andrew
I grew up in Uphill, Weston-super-Mare and for a long time 1338 was plinthed at Bleadon and Uphill station which is where I first saw it. It spent time at Bridgwater so is a Somerset engine in every sense! The valve gear still has me at the head scratching stage. I think it would need to be split at the main pivot in order to remove the wheels, but I've considered making the footplate an integral part of the chassis too so at least the body could be removed to get at the motor. The problem is although I have a test etch, the fittings were not available and Iain at CSP has been unable so far to identify any fittings from the stock he acquired from Roger Slade's estate. One day I'll have the courage to tackle it!

John Palmer
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Re: "Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby John Palmer » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:10 am

As a Burnham boy I too have a soft spot for 1338. In addition to working Bridgwater GW yard she also worked Dunball Wharf, a couple of miles to the north, and Bridgwater S&D, gaining access to the latter via the chord line connecting the GW Docks Branch to the S&D station after the rest of the Bridgwater Railway had closed. <Edited to add that since Bridgwater was a stabling point subordinate to Taunton, presumably 1338 would also have visited Taunton shed for boiler washouts and maintenance/repairs. Apparently she was already on Taunton's books in 1947.)

I can see why the valve gear would have you scratching your head! Instead of having a separate eccentric crank, the eccentric rod is attached direct to the big end of the connecting rod. Providing you have a slot in the footplate wide enough to accommodate sideways displacement of the eccentric rod, might a solution be a capability to move the big end sideways off the crankpin with eccentric rod still attached? Put another way, combine the connecting rod, valve gear, cylinders and running plate into a permanently connected unit. As you suggest, have tank/boiler a removeable unit to give access to the motor.

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Noel
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Re: "Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby Noel » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:20 am

John Palmer wrote: <Edited to add that since Bridgwater was a stabling point subordinate to Taunton, presumably 1338 would also have visited Taunton shed for boiler washouts and maintenance/repairs.


Bridgwater was a formal sub-shed to Taunton, not just a stabling point [which is more of a diesel era concept anyway], and did not close until the later 1960s, so would presumably have been capable of the basics at least, including boiler washouts. 1338 wasn't the only loco sub-shedded at Bridgwater, in BR days at least, since Taunton often had at least one, sometimes two 1363/1366 class tanks, which would also have been there. Some small sub-sheds got around the issue by using timetabled trains to swap locos with the parent shed each week, but that seems unlikely here.
Regards
Noel

John Palmer
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Re: "Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby John Palmer » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:24 am

Receding childhood memories play me false again - I have no recollection of the extensive Bristol & Exeter C&W works on the southern fringe of Bridgwater, even though I must have passed it many times on the train as a child. It was here that the Bridgwater sub shed must have been located, and as part of the C&W works you would certainly expect it to have been able to provide a boiler washing facility. Colin Maggs says that the shed consisted of a single road brick shed opened in 1893 and closed in July 1960. In addition to 1338, Maggs gives 0-6-0PT 2038 as being allocated to Bridgwater in December 1947.

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Noel
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Re: "Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby Noel » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:59 am

John Palmer wrote: I have no recollection of the extensive Bristol & Exeter C&W works on the southern fringe of Bridgwater, even though I must have passed it many times on the train as a child. It was here that the Bridgwater sub shed must have been located


Yes, it was. Roger Griffiths in "GWR Sheds in Camera" says it closed in 1968; however, checking Ian Allan ABCs shows it is listed as sub-shed of Taunton in 1959, but not 1963, so 1960 may be correct. Then again, it wasn't unknown for sheds to change status without changing what they were doing...

According to Tony Walmsley "Shed by Shed" part 6, Taunton's allocation included:

1338 8/50 to 6/60

1361 12/53 to 1/54 and 4/58 to 5/58
1362 9/52 to 11/57, 1/58 to 2/58 and 7/58 to 5/61

1366 12/54 to 1/61
1368 4/53 to 12/54

2038 8/50 to 2/52
2088 9/52 to 7/55
2127 8/50 to 8/52

He doesn't identify locos at sub-sheds separately. Taunton closed to steam in 1964; Bridgwater may have been closed to steam earlier, I don't know.
Note that 8/50 is the start date of his listing, and so normally implies that the loco was there earlier.
Regards
Noel

SteamAle
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Re: "Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby SteamAle » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:33 pm

Andrew
Sorry I've come to this late on.
Lots of other things that need doing, as well as a family bereavement!
Hopefully I've managed to attach a copy of the current build instructions. They are very brief and are from the 7mm ones with altered sizes. Nothing was added by Roger Slater during his tenure as far as I'm aware. We have just added a few photographs and changed form Markits to Gibson wheels and High Level gearbox.
If you are short of any bits let me know through cspmodels@outlook.com I check them daily.
Philip
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andrewnummelin
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Re: "Trojan" - Avonside SS - kit problems

Postby andrewnummelin » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:56 pm

SteamAle wrote:Andrew
Sorry I've come to this late on.
Lots of other things that need doing, as well as a family bereavement!
Hopefully I've managed to attach a copy of the current build instructions. They are very brief and are from the 7mm ones with altered sizes. Nothing was added by Roger Slater during his tenure as far as I'm aware. We have just added a few photographs and changed form Markits to Gibson wheels and High Level gearbox.
If you are short of any bits let me know through cspmodels@outlook.com I check them daily.
Philip

Fantastic - thank you very much.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin


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