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45xx Kit

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:42 am
by bordercollie
Hi
Is there any difference between the Churchward Models and Malcolm Mitchell 45xx kit?

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:50 am
by Jeremy Good
I have couple of 45XX's in various stages of construction. One is a Churchward Models kit and the other a Mitchell kit.

At this stage I have only got as far as the chassis and the Churchward one lacks the detail overlays for the frames that are present in the later Mitchell one, otherwise there seems to be little real difference.

I haven't looked closely at the body etches yet but will try and do this over the next few days and report back.

The other key difference is that you can buy a Churchward Models one....

Jeremy

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:23 pm
by best33
bordercollie wrote:Hi
Is there any difference between the Churchward Models and Malcolm Mitchell 45xx kit?

It is the same kit. Originally sold as Churchward models and then sold through Modelex. When the business was sold to Pete Waterman David Geen was appointed as distributor of the 4mm kits. He added a 4575 to the range which had improved frames and beading around the tank tops. The 45xx kit was upgraded at this time as far as I am aware but all of mine date from the original Churchward/Modelex version which is now available from Phoenix Precision.

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:42 pm
by Jeremy Good
As promised I have now had a closer look at both my Mitchell 4575 kit and the Churchward Models 45XX that I bought from Precision last year.

Hopefully these photos will show some of the differences:

Churchward chassis - brass frame and nickel silver rods/slide bars - no detail overlay and different design for fitting cosmetic springs:

IMG_2080.jpg
Churchward Models Chassis Etch


Churchward body - brass throughout:

IMG_2076.jpg
Churchward Models Body Etch


The rolled parts are supplied pre-rolled in this kit - not sure whether that is an advantage or not as they still need further work!

Mitchell chassis - mainly nickel silver with detail overlay for the frame sides and alternative pony truck parts for narrow gauge:

IMG_2082.jpg
Mitchell 4575 Chassis Etch


Mitchell body - brass throughout and with a couple of additional etches for later 4575 Class locos:

IMG_2083.jpg
Mitchell 4575 Body Etch


This Mitchell photos aren't the full etches as I have started building this one but the this seems to cover the majority of the etched parts - there are a few detail items in a plastic bag that I haven't photographed.

It looks as though the Mitchell kit gives a wider range of options and for bunkers and buffer beams than the Churchward version but that is probably more relevant to the later locomotives rather than early ones.

The castings in the Mitchell kit are predominantly lost wax brass while the Churchward versions are white metal but they seem to be of a good quality and, frankly, most of them don't need to be brass.

Hopefully that is of some assistance. In practical terms I suspect that there is little to chose between the kits if you want a standard, 1930's to 1960's 45XX but for earlier locos the Mitchell kit, if you can get one, may allow earlier bunkers with less additional work.

The Churchyard Models chassis design has been updated over the years and this is different to the one that I built that sits under 4552 on St Merryn which I seem to remember was mainly a nickel silver etch, nevertheless this looks as though it will build up relatively easily.

Jeremy

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:42 am
by bordercollie
Hi

Thanks for update.

Regards

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:07 am
by petermeyer
I bought my Churchward chassis initially for a K's kit but then later the body kit only from Modelex whilst they had the range. Both are brass and the rolled parts are still flat on the etch.

I do need to backdate mine but the small bunker is provided for in the kit according to the instructions.

I recall that when I bought mine at a show I had run out of cash and Modelex did not take cards. The guy let me take the body kit and send a cheque later which I did. What a gent! The price ticket, still on the box, is £42.95 I think the Mitchell kits will be a lot more now.

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:01 pm
by Horsetan
petermeyer wrote:.... I think the Mitchell kits will be a lot more now.


They will be getting silly prices on eBay, because who knows if the range will ever see the light of day again?

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:15 am
by Le Corbusier
Horseman wrote:...... because who knows if the range will ever see the light of day again?


Excuse my ignorance .... why are the kits no longer available? Is there anywhere one can read up on the back story?

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:00 am
by bordercollie
Excuse my ignorance .... why are the kits no longer available? Is there anywhere one can read up on the back story="Le Corbusier"]


That is something I have wondered about. I tried to get an answer awhile ago e-mailing to people who I thought might know, but no replies were received. I did get a reply from Malcolm Mitchell himself but as he has had no invovlement with the kits for several years he could not help. I have seen various things written but it is more in the way of speculation. I don't know the economics of producing a kit but due to the apparent high demand for these kits you would think it would be tempting to reintroduce them by whoever owns the rights.

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:02 am
by petermeyer
Since David Geen retired, the 4mm Mitchell range has been off the market. I believe ownership has reverted to the Pete Waterman empire. Others may know more. I managed to get a 517 just beforehand.

PS: IIRC the 7mm range was withdrawn by JLTRT as that ceased trading so both are unavailable a present.

Re: 45xx Kit

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:30 am
by charleswrigley
For what it is worth here, the 7mm ex-Mitchell kits as well as JLTRT kits are available through MM1 models (mm1models.co.uk).

Charlie