Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:37 am

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

The photograph of the near completed model, shown earlier in the thread, does show that the loco is sitting slightly too high and that the buffers are incorrectly positioned on the buffer beams. The chassis has been dismantled and a few adjustments made which have reduced the ride height and closed the gap between the tops of the carrying wheels and the valances. The buffer beams, which were integral to the footplate etch, have also been repositioned to allow the buffer height to be corrected. This modification has been passed on.

When viewed exactly side on - this photo is angled towards a three quarters view - the curving of the front steps does closely follow the radius of the front carrying wheels, though as has been commented on earlier, there is no commercially available 3' 9 1/4" bogie wheel available, just as there is no 5' 7 1/4" 16 spoke driving wheel available.

So the nearest available wheels, using Alan Gibson products, are 3' 8" 10 spoke - which is the correct number for these locos - bogie wheels (1.25" = .4 mm undersize) and 5' 8" 16 spoke driving wheels (0.75 " = .25 mm oversize). This gives a difference in the separation of the carrying wheel rim and the valance of around 0.6 mm from the exact scale requirement, which is noticeable.

It's also worth mentioning that a number of the later photographs of these locomotives, shows them with pipes along the underside of the valance, which does appear to lower the 'sit 'of the loco

So I think the model now more closely represents the appearance of the F8 prototype.

P1130019.JPG


Cheers

Mike
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ArthurK
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby ArthurK » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:31 am

davebradwell wrote:Nice to hear from you, Arthur, it seems a long time since our last chat at Wakefield. I'm hoping you noticed my rather precise posting on footplate height which did quote wheel diameter, giving Mike an opportunity to confirm an undersize wheel. I see Gibbo does 3-8 wheels but with an extra couple of spokes - sometimes you just can't win! This is strange because the NER usually threw in a couple of extras and does reveal these engines to be an early effort.

Your drg shows the front step higher than the rear and, without digging the GA out again, I did think they were the same. Aren't the buffer beams just fitted upside-down? This would alter the character of the engine.

DaveB


Hello Dave,

Yes our meeting at Wakefield is indeed a long time ago. I am not very mobile these days. It is a long time since I last visited an exhibition. I have given up trying to build my own etches and rely on others to do that bit of the kit development.

Yes I do occasionally get things wrong. The buffers are too high on the beam. Checking the GA the front and cab steps on both lower steps on both should be 1' 6" above rail level. I will have to adjust that on the cab. The front step is correct. I have obviously taken the cab steps from another build!

Wheels are a minefield. Finding the "correct" one is sometimes impossible and a compromise is the only solution. The NER wheels are not well catered for by the trade. Try finding the correct wheels for the D20, C6 or C7. All are 6'10" but the first does not have outside connecting rods and has a throw of 11". Even the C6 and C7 are different, the first has a throw of 14" and the latter has a throw of 13".

Should the designer look at the wheels available and choose not proceed if he cannot find one? No, a compromise is the only solution, customers are waiting for the next kit. Modellers in 18.83 gauge tend to be more selective about the accuracy of their models but even they sometimes must compromise.

Arthur

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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby davebradwell » Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:41 pm

As I get on with everything except my B16, I suppose I'm waiting for the 3D printing people to finally come up with our funny wheels, Arthur, but we never quite get there. I have an almost complete 9F in limbo, too. With troubling talk of curing and shrinkage will we ever get accurate wheel centres that won't shrink further with time, or will we have to treat them as castings and machine to size?

DaveB

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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:19 pm

Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

davebradwell
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby davebradwell » Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:28 pm

Exactly - 2018 and so nearly there.

DaveB

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Horsetan
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Horsetan » Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:52 am

davebradwell wrote:...I have an almost complete 9F in limbo, too. With troubling talk of curing and shrinkage will we ever get accurate wheel centres that won't shrink further with time, or will we have to treat them as castings and machine to size?...


...or they may simply not happen.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:00 pm

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

Since this model was last featured, in this thread, a third body has been built from further revised etches, though utilising the boiler from the first build and the smokebox and cab roof from the second build. The chassis is also from the first build though again, the latest revision of those chassis etches has also been built as a check.

So as the model finally approaches completion, a few photographs of the current version.

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:50 pm

Any regular readers of this thread (are there any regular readers?) will know that I often go slightly 'off topic'. This not in the sense of something entirely different but in the sense of not completely relating to the current subject, though still within the overall subject area i.e. Steam Locomotives. Equally, those same regular readers (who may or may not exist) will also know that I am fortunate in being one of the recipients of new additions to Mick Nicholson's growing collection of railway photographs.

Anyway, most of those photos, good as they are, don't necessarily relate to the current subject of the thread and this one, posted below, falls squarely into that category. But as a portrait of a beautiful locomotive design in pristine condition, then they don't come much better than this. The photo is dated March 1949 and was almost certainly taken in 'The Plant' at Doncaster.

So courtesy Mick Nicholson a photo of Gresley A3 60058 'Blair Athol'.

Cheers

Mike
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Winander
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Winander » Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:02 pm

mikemeg wrote:Any regular readers of this thread (are there any regular readers?)


Yes, I am an avid reader, not my subject matter, not even my period of interest, but nevertheless interesting, informative and with some excellent modelling and great piccies. That A3 just has something about it and the snow sets it off beautifully.

all the best
Richard Hodgson
Organiser Scalefour Virtual Group. Our meeting invitation is here.

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:44 pm

Back in context and on topic, while doing the F8 and an N8, and while waiting for revised etches or further supplies, I took the opportunity to do some regular maintenance on some of my loco fleet. Nothing too involved just cleaning the wheels, checking and cleaning pick-ups and then lightly greasing the gears with silicone grease and a little clock oil on wheel and motion bearings.

After each loco was done and tested for smooth and slow running - I aim for a minimum speed of around a scale 2 mph - then they were sat on one of the boards of my layout. Anyway so far I've done about half of the tank locos on the layout and the assembled throng was then photographed.

So on the up fast are 3 x A6, T1 and N10. On the up slow there are J71, 2 x J72, J73 and 3 x J77. Quite obviously they are all the same colour - they're all black - though the precise shade and the extent of weathering differs across them all, though perhaps not perceptible from this photo.

Still to do are another A6, another T1, 2 more J72's, 3 G5's as well as the F8 and N8 under construction. Why do I have so many locos? Well, why not.

In a low light I can get down to trackside and see again, those lines and lines of locos which could be seen at many of the larger loco sheds, especially on a Sunday.

One day I'll actually build the loco shed for the layout, though it's going to have to be one of the old North Eastern's square roundhouses.

Cheers

Mike
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Dave Holt
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:50 pm

Mike.
A very impressive group of locos and - more to come.
The new F8 is looking very good. I think the addition of all the external plumbing, clips and brackets. etc., really transform a model into a realistic representation of the real things.
All very inspiring.
Dave.

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:17 pm

Dave Holt wrote:Mike.
A very impressive group of locos and - more to come.
The new F8 is looking very good. I think the addition of all the external plumbing, clips and brackets. etc., really transform a model into a realistic representation of the real things.
All very inspiring.
Dave.


Thanks Dave,

I know that this F8 is primarily a test build to prove that the etches all go together, as designed, to produce a scale model which is both dimensionally and aesthetically correct. As with all kit builds, the extent to which the model is further detailed is up to each individual builder. I know that in your own builds you go well beyond the kit contents and detailing level to achieve the realistic representation, which you do achieve.

With these relatively simple locomotive designs (were they ever simple?) then any lack of detailing becomes much more apparent, hence all of the piping, tubes and bits and pieces hung onto the loco.

Your comments are much appreciated and make the postings, on here, well worth doing.

Many thanks and regards

Mike

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:27 pm

Winander wrote:
mikemeg wrote:Any regular readers of this thread (are there any regular readers?)


Yes, I am an avid reader, not my subject matter, not even my period of interest, but nevertheless interesting, informative and with some excellent modelling and great piccies. That A3 just has something about it and the snow sets it off beautifully.

all the best


Richard,

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated.

Here's another of those 'portraits', this one in colour, of another of Gresley's A3's in near pristine condition, at Grantham, in 1960. Just beautiful!!

Regards

Mike
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:51 am

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

This particular kit has been 'on the stocks' for a couple of years, though its development has been occasionally interrupted by other developments. A third test build is currently underway to prove some amendments made to the etch artwork since the first two test builds were done, now a couple of years ago.

The kit is designed to allow the portrayal of the J21, from its early NER Class C days (though not as the original Joy valve gear versions) through the various changes made by the NER and by the LNER as Class J21

So both saturated and superheated versions are covered.

Two different smokebox wrappers are provided for each version - flush rivetted and snap head rivetted and various forms of the safety valve arrangements are also provided.

The cab details are as per the J25 kit and include a considerable amount of detail.

The three photos, below, are the cab details (photographed on the J25 build) and the first two test builds of the initial etches for this model.

Cheers

Mike
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Horsetan
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Horsetan » Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:31 pm

mikemeg wrote:NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

This particular kit has been 'on the stocks' for a couple of years, though its development has been occasionally interrupted by other developments. A third test build is currently underway to prove some amendments made to the etch artwork since the first two test builds were done, now a couple of years ago....


I'd forgotten Arthur was going to produce these kits. The brake pull rod angle is very close to the BDC of the rear coupling rod boss.

I wonder if there's been any joy with the Q7....?
That would be an ecumenical matter.

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:42 pm

Horsetan wrote:
mikemeg wrote:NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

This particular kit has been 'on the stocks' for a couple of years, though its development has been occasionally interrupted by other developments. A third test build is currently underway to prove some amendments made to the etch artwork since the first two test builds were done, now a couple of years ago....


I'd forgotten Arthur was going to produce these kits. The brake pull rod angle is very close to the BDC of the rear coupling rod boss.

I wonder if there's been any joy with the Q7....?


Looking at the two photos of the models, you're right; the angled brake pull rod is close to the BDC of the rear boss. In the trials, just pushing the chassis, there was no fouling of these two items but I will try and increase the separation.

As for the Q7, Arthur can better answer than can I.

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:50 pm

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

Following on from some of the postings above, this is the third test build of Arthur Kimber's J21 kit, now approaching completion. This one has been built as a saturated, non vacuum fitted loco representing the state of a few of these locos right up until withdrawal.

This model is intended to portray 65070 of Retford (36E) shed during the early 1950's; June 1950 to be more precise. This loco had the modified, centrally located, compensated brake pull rod, LNER Group Standard buffers and draw gear and a 3 coal rail tender with the later style of frame cut outs, though still North Eastern.

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:08 pm

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER A6

After many months, during which other projects took precedence, I have now re-commenced work on this, having now acquired the necessary driving wheels and crankpin components.

This one will be 69798, a saturated member of this class as at mid-1950 and will be the fourth model of this class which I've built. The others are 69791,69795 and 69796. By the time of the representation of this model - June 1950 - there were only seven extant members of this class from an initial number of ten, so I will have over half of the class modelled when this is complete.

Cheers

Mike
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Chas Levin
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Chas Levin » Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:30 pm

A great looking model of a fine looking prototype: delighted to see you recommencing work on this one Mike. I have one of Arthur's kits of these in my to-build pile, looking forward to it very much.
Chas

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:34 pm

Chas Levin wrote:A great looking model of a fine looking prototype: delighted to see you recommencing work on this one Mike. I have one of Arthur's kits of these in my to-build pile, looking forward to it very much.


Thanks Chas,

I know I'm biased but, for me, big passenger tank locos didn't get much better than these. By the 1940's, almost every one of these locos was different in some respect, often many respects - chimneys, smokebox doors, buffers, some saturated some superheated, dome shape and position, etc.

Since these photos were taken, the missing sand pipes have been added, along with the buffer beam 'furniture'.

Regards

Mike
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Chas Levin
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Chas Levin » Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:38 pm

Yep, agreed. Big, powerful, compact - they look like they mean business and they'll get the job done! THose are two of your earlier builds, aren't they?
Chas

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:44 pm

Chas Levin wrote:Yep, agreed. Big, powerful, compact - they look like they mean business and they'll get the job done! THose are two of your earlier builds, aren't they?


Yes, 69795 was the test build of Arthur's A6 kit; 69796 has a scratch built body (actually plasticard) on Arthur's etched chassis.

Regards

MIke

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Chas Levin
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Chas Levin » Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:24 pm

Oh wow - I'd never have spotted that one's brass and one's plasticard; very nice building, Mike! I just took another careful look at the pictures and I still can't see anything to distinguish them materially.
Out of interest, why did you decide to build the body from plastic?
Chas

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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby DougN » Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:26 am

Looking great Mike, I do like the J21, they had a certain something about them.

As the Worsdell's locos all had a certain look to them. I have never looked into the history of TW Worsdell (which I just had a quick google) I find it interesting that the J15's and the J21's share the same timing (one being 1883 (J15) and the other 1886 (J21) ) they are quite similar in so many respects. yes the tenders are the standards from the companies but the locos are pretty close otherwise.

I do have a J21 and a J25 from LRM to build at some time but yours is fantastic. I do like the changes that you have brought to so may of your models. :thumb

You have previously taken photos of all your tanks lined up you have a mighty collection now!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:40 pm

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

Now approaching completion is this; the London Road Models NER Class B / LNER N8. This model, while based on the LRM kit, does embody a number of changes and modifications, using many of Arthur Kimber's (North Eastern Kits) castings and smaller etches. The mainframes have also been re-engineered to remove the articulated rear portion substituting a fixed rear section. The model also uses LRM's radial axle arrangement for the rear carrying axle.

Still some work to do on this - crank pin collets and nuts, sanding gear, brake gear and pull rods, etc. but it does, hopefully, start to look like an N8.

Cheers

Mike
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