Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

ben mason
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Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby ben mason » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:03 pm

Currently I'm looking at converting a Bachmann SR/BR N class 2-6-0 to p4. I see that Gibson's do a conversion pack, I wonder if anyone has experience if using this way? The alternative would be to get a chassis from SE Finecast but this would seem a lot more complicated. Any advice would be appreciated.

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Mike Garwood » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:06 pm

I have a feeling this was covered in an MRJ some years back, might be worth searching http://www.modelrailwayjournal.com/ to check

Mike

tmcsean
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby tmcsean » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:05 am

If I remember rightly, the main problem (other than getting the Gibson wheels on the axle square and undistorted) is that the tender is narrower than scale. The options seem to be either getting a new chassis or cutting the tender longways and inserting an extra slice of styrene. The Finecast chassis may not be an option. They have not listed the N as having been updated and the picture on their web site looks as if it dates from the days when loco kits were made to fit existing RTR chassis, with the body dimensions distorted to make it fit. Seemed like a good idea at the time, less so now.

Tony

ben mason
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby ben mason » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:43 am

Thanks for your help, I have ordered a copy of MRJ 112 to see how Tim Shackleton got on, seems like it's possible but I'm only concerned about fitting the wheels without using springs. The model is fairly weighty which might be helpful.

ben mason
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby ben mason » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:14 pm

It seems that Alan Gibson may be able to provide replacement frames for the N class mogul. This might be the way to get a CSB sprung chassis.

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David Thorpe
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby David Thorpe » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:26 pm

Several people on this forum have very successfully converted RTR models to P4 merely by using the RTR chassis with suitable P4 wheels. I myself have successfully converted a Hornby Black 5 using a Gibson conversion wheelset with the original chassis and valve gear. It runs perfectly well. As for the tender, I see that Tim Shackleton replaced the Bachmann one with a Hornby "Schools" tender body and scratch built chassis.

DT

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:45 am

I have converted an N to p4 along the lines of Tim Shackleton's articles. You'll need 113 as well. Mainly Trains used to a detailing etch and also a chassis kit for the N. I don't know if it's still available.
Somewhere along the way I did something which caused a bind in the motion and I haven't got round to sorting it, but it's on the to do list!

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kelly
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby kelly » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:46 pm

Comet might do a frames pack in their range.

Remember also, that during their long lives they often changed tender types dependant upon which division they were on (on the Western Division they could use bigger heavier tenders, but on the Central and the Eastern they had to use smaller tenders, so some did get Schools tenders whilst others got King Arthur tenders).

Things changed again with them over the years as both Maunsell and Bulleid experimented with different members of the class to experiment and improve performance (deflectors, even an armoured version during the war).
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ben mason
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby ben mason » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:01 pm

Thanks, I'll have a look around for alternatives. It seems I have the correct tender for my project which is to model the "withered arm " to Padstow, all the photo's show the N's running with flat sided 6 wheeled tenders. Converting the tender doesn't look too hard and could easily be sprung.

Jeremy Good
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Jeremy Good » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:26 pm

Ben

The tender is reasonably straightforward to spring or compensate but I found you need to move the frames out a little to ensure clearance. I can’t remember whether I used a Mainly Trains chassis frame or a Comet one to compensate the tender.

I tried using the SE Finecast etched chassis for the loco. Whilst, the frames are correct, in order to fit the Bachmann body, especially around the ash pan, that it needed to be cut out in places to fit. The cylinder/motion support brackets are a bit too wide but also need adjusting for P4.

Although this was intended for St Merryn it didn’t get further than an inside cylindered 2-6-0 and was superseded by a re-wheeled Bachmann chassis that, apparently,turned out to be a more straightforward conversion.

If I were starting again I’d go down the route suggested by Tim Shackleton in MRJ.

Good luck.

Jeremy

ben mason
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby ben mason » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:00 pm

Thanks Jeremy, I have seen the Mogul on St Meryn, and was wondering if it was a straight forward conversion. I'm encouraged to to try this approach. I will aim for a sprung tender chassis as the result I've had with my Adam's Steamroller 4-4-0 was a great improvement using High Level mini-blocks. I'll have plenty of time to research as I also have to get started on a Drummond L11 first, and after I finish some carriages and start wiring up the layout so that there's any space on the workbench! One advantage of modelling the "Withered Arm" is that little seems to have changed to the appearance of the line throughout it's history so I'll be able to run some Edwardian stock as well as more recent trains including the Mogul and later on a T9 and Bullied pacific locos. I'll have another look at St Meryn. I suspect the L11 is a slight diversion and I'm still hoping to locate a Falcon brass kit for a K10 although I've been searching for about a year now!

kelham
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby kelham » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:21 pm

The new owners of Falcon Brass are selling etches only while they try to come to grips with what they have acquired. The K10 is listed as available in that form http://falconbrassworks.com/list.php?range=LSWR#tenderl


Richard

ben mason
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby ben mason » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:06 pm

Thanks Richard, I now have the etches on order!

Philip Hall
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:17 pm

Just spotted this as I am in intermittent internet contact right now. I did the conversion of two Bachmann Ns for Chris McCarthy which have run on St Merryn. They were straightforward conversions of the Bachmann model with Alan Gibson conversion wheels, along with replacement AG coupling rods (LNWR I think with the joint in the wrong place but Chris wasn’t bothered about that). Others I have done used the Bachmann rods, checked to match the frames with the bosses and joints slimmed down. Valve gear was as supplied but with a new AG cast return crank tapped to receive the crankpin. I always make the centre crankpin brass and solder the return crank on.

I also widened the frames with thin Plastikard overlays on thick packing pieces, carefully done to match the ashpan extension that Bachmann put on the body. Tender wise, the problem is that the frames are too close together but the body is OK, so I slit the chassis down the middle and put in a strip of Plastikard, well supported with other strips whilst the glue sets. The brakes are moulded flush with the frames, and these were not altered on these two but others I have done have been. The close coupling arrangements on engine and tender were removed; the new rear dummy frames conceal this. A few pipes and injectors are needed under the cab. Note that the alternative tender with the side sheets sloped at the top don’t have this problem; the wheels fit in without much filing of clearance.

There are two issues with the final model: the first is that with the correct diameter wheels fitted (Bachmann’s are way too small) the model sits 0.5mm or so too high. I have cut a chassis apart and filed chunks off the top to try and correct this but it’s not something I will do again.The second is that the supplied replacement wheels are Midland pattern, the nearest available but the crank throw is too small. I am going to attempt to correct this on the next two by fitting ‘Crab’ wheels which have the same number of spokes but with a greater throw.

Philip

ben mason
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby ben mason » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:32 pm

Thanks Phillip, that gives me some insight before I start the conversion, which won't be started until sometime next year. I now have Tim Shackleton's article in MRJ so I'm starting to get some idea how to approach this.

Philip Hall
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:23 pm

Ben, just noticed your mention of a K10 and L11 from Falcon Brass. Be aware that, being ex - Jidenco, they have their inaccuracies. One of which is that the cab sides on these kits are incorrect (unless they’ve corrected them) in that the splasher which is part of the cab side is curved following the wheels, where in fact it should be straight. I have a Falcon K10 kit and also a Finney L11 in the ‘one day to do’ pile.

Philip

billbedford
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby billbedford » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 am

Don't you love the 'helpful' advice given about 40 year old kits where the adviser has no knowledge what so ever about what updates have been produced in the mean time.

Chocolate tea pots come to mind.
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Noel
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Noel » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:23 pm

billbedford wrote:Don't you love the 'helpful' advice given about 40 year old kits where the adviser has no knowledge what so ever about what updates have been produced in the mean time.


As indicated earlier, Falcon are currently selling etches only. Their site doesn't indicate whether these have been updated yet, so far as I can see, so now any other interested reader (I see Ben has ordered a set) knows to ask if he wants a set [if he didn't know already]. If he finds a complete kit somewhere, it's likely to be old stock, so now he knows to treat it with caution. Better surely to indicate the need for caution unnecessarily than not do so?

ben mason wrote: One advantage of modelling the "Withered Arm" is that little seems to have changed to the appearance of the line throughout it's history so I'll be able to run some Edwardian stock as well as more recent trains including the Mogul and later on a T9 and Bullied pacific locos


The most obvious are probably the various changes in station paint colours and signage [LSWR/SR/BR(SR)]. Also, I seem to remember that various stations acquired items output from the concrete works from the 1930s onwards. Then there are things like phone boxes and posters and the amount and tidiness of vegetation...
Regards
Noel

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:59 pm

There has been a thread in that other place on the availability of Falcon Brass products.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ill-about/

Having followed that, I consider it reasonable to think that the etches are unmodified from those available from the previous owner of Falcon Brass or even the original Jidenco designs. The etches have been made available following requests from a number of RMweb members.

Jol

billbedford
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby billbedford » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:09 pm

Of course, a phone call or even email to Dart could have settled the matter in a few minutes --but where's the fun in that?
Bill Bedford
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Philip Hall
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:46 pm

If the etches are indeed available for the K10 then I think it would be a good starting point, which is how I have always considered Jidenco/Falcon. Many of them are quite useable but of course there are some real turkeys. The K10 appears to be in the former category, notwithstanding the inaccurate cab/splasher sides, along with the Urie version of the 700, which despite the availability of the Hornby model, I still want to build. The Ilfracombe Goods looks OK as well, and I remember Les Darbyshire (who should know) told me it made up very well.

There was such a large range that I think it is going to be a major, if not impossible task, to bring all of them into line with current standards. But to have the basics available in some form is going to useful for those of us who enjoy a challenge and need something obscure and like making things. The only thing is that what was once obscure is now being presented to us ready made in ever greater fidelity.

To return to the N conversion, there are/were kits in the Jidenco/Falcon range for these engines, and possibly they could yield parts. Probably only viable if you find a second hand one? The main problem, as I said, is ending up with an engine that is a little too high because of the wheel diameter. I decided to live with that as it wasn't as obvious as on some other engines.

Philip

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Horsetan
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Horsetan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:46 pm

All academic now, as a son-of-ProScale situation has developed, and Falcon has now been shut down.

24 hours is a long time in old kit ranges.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Le Corbusier » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:16 pm

Horsetan wrote:All academic now, as a son-of-ProScale situation has developed, and Falcon has now been shut down.

24 hours is a long time in old kit ranges.


What is a
as a son-of-ProScale situation
? :?
Tim Lee

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Horsetan
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Horsetan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:13 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:
Horsetan wrote:All academic now, as a son-of-ProScale situation has developed, and Falcon has now been shut down.

24 hours is a long time in old kit ranges.


What is a
as a son-of-ProScale situation
? :?


This is where the proprietor of a kit range withdraws the entire range from sale due to one or two publicly-aired adverse comments. One might almost call it a kit of pique.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Bachmann N class mogul p4 conversion

Postby Mike Garwood » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:33 pm

Ivan
As I understand the latest entry on the thread on Falcon Brass... the threat of with drawl of the range has been removed. Whether that's a good or bad thing...only those buying and building the kits will know for sure.

Mike


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