A0 Gresley Pacific Prototype

[Knuckles]

I've have almost completed my 'half' secret project.

I have been posting it on SiF and a teeny bit on Facebook but that's is about it. For RMweb and Scalefour I chose to keep it quiet until now as I am close to completion.

So what is it?

Well, the A0 Gresley Pacific. 'A0' being a term I coined a few years ago when helping the formation of two essays (see below).

Gresley had some drawings of a pacific that was just a stretched atlantic, likely #279...

...

and in 1915 a particular drawing was made followed by several redrafts. I have copies of these and I have decided I wanted to make every combination possible, partly because I like odd engines and partly because I believe the A0 also formed the basic for the Railway Series characters Gordon and Henry.

Those who know me know my main railway interests are pre-Grouping and the Railway series, the latter in a serious non compromising way with the intent to get back to the roots and model the correct image as originally intended by Wilbert Awdry - not as he actually did. More on the Railway Series later (RWS from now on).

So, once this is release we will be able to model many different combinations by switching the running plates, cabs, fireboxes etc.
Everything has been designed to be a cohesive modular system that will enable chopping and changing of forms at a whim.
You'll have to modify the valve gear or change the cylinders in some cases but I can't do everything for you!

This is a project I have been wanting to do since before I even started SCC and so I'm excited to be near completion. Even if there are no takers I do not mind too much as it is personally important to me.

Everything has been designed around 3 different Hornby A1 RTR models so to be as universal as possible. Several scale drawings have been used. I basically created a Gresley A1 in original condition and made everything go backward in time or theoretically forward so in terms of how you want to model things the world is your oyster. Who invented that term? Why was it perpetuated? STUPID!

Ok...

The wheelbase of the A0 drawing is...
6'3" + 5' 3" + 7' 0" + 7' 0" + 8' 0" - However the Gresley A1 is...
6'3" + 5' 6" + 7' 3" + 7' 3" + 9' 6"

For this reason I am making the 1915 A0 fit the A1 wheelbase so it can still fit on RTR and kit chassis.
What I am thinking of doing is providing an alternate Cartazzi type pony carrier to bring the wheel closer forward.
However the body, boiler bands and splasher positions are all still set to the A1 for previously mentioned reasons.
It is a compromise only avoidable if you want to design your own chassis from scratch. If however one day someone
is mad enough to want it even more perfect to the original proposed specification then I may do something.

This is the initial 1915 drawing that measures up to have a LOW height plate, low as compared to a Grelsy A1 running plate. You will notice from the back it is set HIGH then it sweeps lower to a MEDIUM height then after a bit it is LOW again before finally reaching the last curve to buffer beam height. I put them in capitals as it will be important later.
Illustration is found in Cecil J.Allen's British Pacific Locomotive Design.

For another drawing I brought a book I was pointed to and indeed there it is on page 125 of GREAT NORTHERN STEAM by W .A.Tuplin.
This measures up to have a MID height plate.


As well as me being fascinated with this design and intending to build it I also believe firmly that it forms the basis of Wilbert Awdry's character Gordon and so if you model it in certain combinations you can create if you desire what I personally believe to be an accurate version of the character.
This is all on the modeller of course, you'd have to paint it blue yet it could easily represent something else if modelled a different way.
I also believe the A0 likely forms the basis of the character Henry, it's all speculation but the same idea goes. Configure a certain combination and you could model that too. The original 1915 plan will requirean older A1 chassis with the X04 motor or tender drive due to the parellel and lower pitched boiler, the front of the chassis will also need a bit of chopping. The other combinations mainly need valve gear tweaks or cylinder changes. I have done this before when making two versions of Gordon so I'll put it in the instructions upon release.
Looking forward to building some of these!

The other thing is you could order JUST the running plates and use them to convert your own Hornby A1 loco body to a particular format. Might make another cartazzi/radial type truck to make for the pony position on the 1915 plan. Can come later.

For more on the A0 and how it likely relates to Gordon please read these to excellent essays. I helped them a little bit and as such I agree with most of the thought and conclusions, although not all. I am in agreement about 90%. In the essays it mentions the A0 as having the same wheelbase as the A1 yet the drawings show otherwise. it is a moot point anyway and doesn't detract from the overall idea.
http://www.sodor-island.net/railwayseri ... acific.htm
http://www.sodor-island.net/railwayseri ... ebuild.htm

For my two models of the character in various combinations (also possible with the SCC items upon release) please look here...
http://www.sodor-island.net/railwayseri ... gordon.htm
Bearing in mind these were a good while ago and a lot of the opinions and views contained therein have changed since.

So there you have it. I kept it quiet as I know some roll their eyes whenever the RWS is mentioned but pre-Grouping and RWS are my main rail modelling interests and so I'm not about to change.

Once the A0 project is completed we'll be able to model the 1915 drawing as done, the redrafts we know about and the theoretical future combinations that may point to the true image of RWS characters.

The latest pics showing various combinations (not all), 95% complete...





Any thoughts?

Will be building several combinations so will use this thread when I do.

EDIT:

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc…
A0 Prototype Pacific range RELEASED. Follow up pictures, video and maybe some more items may follow.
Shown is just one of the Full shells, currently the only one although I will be uploading a few. However MOST combinations you'll have to make yourself.

I understand this is a niche subject but it is important to me so whatever!

[Le Corbusier]

picture links not showing?

[Noel]

They need to be formatted with the address within [url][/url]. Knuckles or a moderator should be able to change them. Meanwhile, copy the link, without the "[]" and "img=", into your browser address bar and they should work.

[Knuckles]

Balls.

Will edit. Gimmi 5...

[Knuckles]

picture links not showing?

Edited.

The issue comes when pasting from RMweb because for some unknown reason this forum sometimes changes the codes itself upon 'pasteage' and buggeres everything up. No idea why. There now anyway.

[Le Corbusier]

Impressive stuff Gavin ... particularly liked the comparison picture between the two locos on the link.

Tim

[Knuckles]

Unsure what you mean fellow modeller.

Lots of pictures and several links!

[Le Corbusier]

Unsure what you mean fellow modeller.

Lots of pictures and several links!

gavin_mkII_b4_after.jpg

[Knuckles]

Oh that. Ok thanks.

[billbedford]

Ho Hum....

These drawings should be a warning to modellers not to believe everything the read in railway books.

I very much doubt they are 'Gresley' drawings. They look very much like, and have the correct date, for drawings that the Society of Locomotive Engineers produced in an attempt to design post-war 'standard' locos. These turn up in a number of publications with details such as cabs, boiler fitting etc to the normal design of the drawing office that produced the diagram.

Nether of these drawings would work as a four cylinder loco, and there is no provision on the drawing as to how the centre cylinders could be fitted. Obviously it was a detail that has been left for the drawing office to sort out. There is a void between the front of the boiler and the smokebox which looks as if it was intended that the centre cylinders could be lifted into that space with the hope that the connecting rods would clear the leading driving axle. But we know from the design history of the A1s that there was a lot more to be done to get that arrangement to work. Other solutions might have been to lengthen the gap between the cylinders and the leading axle and have all cylinders drive that axle or to divide the drive and move the centre cylinders as far forward as possible so they could drive the leading axle. The former of these was adopted by the NER on their pacifics, while the latter became standard on the GWR on their four cylinder 4-6-0s and their derivatives.

[Knuckles]

Yeah it's possible. The second drawing in the book on page 25 said words to the affect of "...as drawn for Gresley in 1915" yet others apparently say Gresley drew them. For the redrafted plans that Simon Martin dug out of the NRM himself please see part two of the essay above where you will see the 1920 and the apparent 'Final' redraft before the A1 was produced. It also seems clear in the research we did that he scrapped the 4 cylinder designs for his 3 cylinder in the process somewhere.

I edited another picture above. If the name on the pic is some kind of copyright issue then I'll just edit to be a link instead.

[Armchair Modeller]

I doubt if Gresley ever drew anything. The drawing room staff drew things. The CME got all the credit though.

[Will L]

Hi Knuckles, have you seen the section in the RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Volume 2A whci has a fare bit to say about the development of the A1 design. It also gives a drawing of the 1920 proposal for a 4-6-2.

[Knuckles]

Hi Knuckles, have you seen the section in the RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Volume 2A whci has a fare bit to say about the development of the A1 design. It also gives a drawing of the 1920 proposal for a 4-6-2.

No, although I'd be interested to see it. The 1920 proposal drawing I do have is one that was dug out of the NRM whereby the parallel boiler was ditched in favor of a tapered one and the cylinder covers at the front of the running plate were angular.


Drawing under the Raven A2 photograph...
http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/ ... ebuild.htm

[Noel]

I doubt if Gresley ever drew anything. The drawing room staff drew things. The CME got all the credit though.

That's because he told them what his objective was and what he wanted them to produce, and also got all the flak if the design was nbg.

[Knuckles]

nbg = no bloody good?

Typo of nvg / not very good ((b close to v on keyboard) not Night Vision Goggles!))
Or another?

[billbedford]

That's because he told them what his objective was and what he wanted them to produce, and also got all the flak if the design was nbg.

Narr...

He just got other people to fix his mistakes. cf Thompson and the B17