J26 from a Dave Bradwell Kit

[davebradwell]

Does this help:

Img247.jpg

The piston valve engines were slightly different and would need some extra parts. I have GA for the arrgt but it's 1/8 full size. I stopped including the inside motion when I went to the new style chassis etch. I can remember watching the motion which was visible below the frame cutout. You could also include the links to the drain cocks, probably on the cylinder centre-lines. Can't think why I didn't include these.

I thought the smokebox rivets had a mention in the instructions but it was a long time ago. They seemed to go from the original countersunk and finished flush to just bashed down into the countersinks and left as is around wartime, although this isn't the result of thorough research. The practice stayed until the end of steam. It's a pity the preserved engines have snap head rivets - much too LMS - and perpetuated by the rtr folk.

DaveB

[Daddyman]

I thought the smokebox rivets had a mention in the instructions but it was a long time ago. They seemed to go from the original countersunk and finished flush to just bashed down into the countersinks and left as is around wartime, although this isn't the result of thorough research.

They do in fact get a mention, Dave - in the prototype notes at the start: "I believe that in the early days some engines had flush rivets." (p.3). Doug and I had obviously forgotten this by the time of building. My understanding of the time of changeover is the same as yours.

[DougN]

Thanks to Both Daddyman and Dave B. I have figured out how to produce a reasonable representation of valve gear now along with the con rods and cross heads. Dave thanks for the views of the works drawings. I think I have a good idea along with the photos from Daddyman.

I can pin through the top of the valve gear and connect to the weightshaft - This time I will even include the valve rods I think these go through the motion bracket at the rear of the slid bars (the small holes to the centre) Looks like they should be about .8mm in diameter. As the parts are all still lose I will do a mock up tonight to see if everything falls into the right place and then cut the back lower out of the valve gear to clear the axle. As i am intending to have this as static. From the photos of the one in the NRM I dont think I will paint every thing red but to try and get a good representation of some items Red and some in oily grim!

I will continue to think about the smokebox rivets. I am finding it a challenge at times to find decent photos of locos in the right condition to get the details right. I have been thinking of buying a few Yeadons registers for the classes I have to build. A bit of a challenge to drop in and look at them and decide. So alot of books are bought sight unseen.

[Winander]

From the photos of the one in the NRM I dont think I will paint every thing red but to try and get a good representation of some items Red and some in oily grim!

Dependent on period and company certain parts would be left unpainted so that stress cracks were easier to see. For instance, if your coupling rods are unpainted don't paint the connecting rods. I also wouldn't rely too heavily on the NRM as they have been know to get things wrong, although if you have no other source or advice....

[Daddyman]

Yeadon 47B has a photo of your loco at some point in the 1930s: capuchon, higher dome, circular fastening on s.box door, two whistles, original buffers, non-GS coupling hook, two coal rails.

It occurs to me, too, that the firebox-top rivets shouldn't be there either - weren't they only on the late ("A"-version) boilers?

Re the valve gear, I was thinking that the Piercy 0-gauge J27 kit would help if you can find photos of it on line. Unfortunately, the two I built don't live with me. But here are a couple of things which might help:

Hodgson valve gear.pdf

J27 valve gear.PNG

[DougN]

So after a frustrating day at work and avoiding surviour on tV. I sat down to have a go at the valve gear.
This is the modified valve gear

IMG-20220131-WA0008.jpg

I wanted to have it non working so the above is what i docked out to clear the axle.

The piston rods are 0.8 rod.

IMG-20220131-WA0009.jpeg

IMG-20220131-WA0014.jpg

Still not quite sure on how to hang the connecting rods but i was happy with the progress tonight.

[Winander]

Doug,

If you can still get what you've done out, you could drill the cranks and eccentrics and thread wire through to extend outwards to the frames potentially cranking the wire upwards or backwards (which would make it easier to hide) to get the arrangement low enough to look right and the wire not to interfere with the suspension.

[DougN]

Oh yes i have made it so the gear drops out as painting the chassis would be a new kind of painful otherwise.

I seem to have the slide bars one is tight and fixed to the unit but the other one doesnt want to stay soldered together.

[DougN]

As it has been a while i am now battling with the chassis to get it running.... while all the bits I thought were soldered on well fall off at the slightest touch!. So far I have had to re quarter the wheels, adjust a hornblock guide to be a tighter fit another one wanted to make a break for freedom as well so it was soldered back on. I am battling with the brake gear which never wants to stay where I put it along with one of the brake blocks making it to freedom and is yet to be re captured... Option 2 is to make a new one which as I am just finishing the first will appear! So after a 3 hour battle yesterday I am little further forward to having a running chassis. As the entire thing had spent a short period in a ultra sonic bath... (ready a massage bath with some detergent which did virtually nothing!) I gave the entire chassis a coat of WD40 to remove any water from bearings etc. which did allow the chassis to roll better! The entire build is too tight at the moment

One thing that did go my way was, a mate purchased a wheel thing full of small screws which included 1.2mm screws which matched the motor fixing screws at 90degrees to the ones I was was expecting to have to use! so after a bit of a battle to cut them down in length I have 2! These will allow the motor to be fixed in a better position.

I am also aiming to work on the pickups so that these can be removable for adjustment and fabrication.

[DougN]

Well the battle with the chassis continued over the weekend... in between parental taxi duties, shopping etc. I had identified the reason things were not running nicely. Mr Bradwell in the instructions does say to eliminate the other problems first before opening up coupling rod holes etc... So when I sat down I saw the front axle/ hornblock "clicking" back and forward in the horn guide. So as the loco was fully sprung (ie all the springs are installed and the bearings are "hanging around" I took all the wheels and rods off and out again. The gremlins had been in again and I could not find my tapered axle jigs but I did have a set of Steel turned axle spacers which were tight on the rods. Not surprisingly the axle that had caused all the issues would not fit the Jig. However once I managed to fiddle with the jigs and the rods I managed to have it all tight. Then carefully applied the soldering iron to fix the horn guide in the right location. Then warmed the other side the hornblock was suspended from the spring and had WD40 on it so I was in no danger of soldering it all together! Would I want to do this again.... NO. I know that Dave Bradwell now uses the same system from his Q6's now so there is less danger.

Once everything was back to where it should be I found that I had no sliding tolerance. I polished the hornblock and the guides with 1200 grit wet and dry and it slides but not as well as it should.

Then I started working on the wheels and rods. They received a bath in IPA to remove any grease/oil then re assembly took place. The rods did have a small amount reamed from them which allows them to revolve better. I also used the GW wheel press I have which worked nicely.

I moved on and installed the Gearbox (High Level Kits road runner 1:34) which I have now fixed the axle drive to the axle with some old Loctite 601 and dare I say with some concern actually had the loco running on the desk! not a smooth as I want but this is an achievement when its under power. I have the plastic worm and the brass worm. currently it is running on the plastic one nicely and it will slip off the shaft if things stall. I have also had to take a fair bit out of the back plate to the cab and the boiler for the motor to have some freedom. I hope the back head will hide it. As I only needed the thickness really of the brass. any how it will go close!

This leaves, build a new brake block that made a break for freedom and has not yet surfaced. Pickups, Install the motion in its final location then down to painting. Also have to complete the back head.

[Dave Holt]

Doug.
It sounds like quite a battle but that you're getting to a satisfactory outcome. I'm sure you will feel a great deal of satisfaction when it's all completed.
Dave.

[DougN]

I am rather chuffed today. Finnally sat down to do battle once again with the chassis... stripped down moved the hornguides on 2 axles again. Re assembled. Now once it was backtogether i did the test with fly leads and the old trusty duette. It runs ok this time catching on the brake brakets... little bit of fileing happened and it is running so much better! So after flaffing around with it a little more i tested the voltage which dropped down to 2.5volts. So i am very happy with this as it will need to run in and more surprisingly with out openning up the bearings any further on the axles or the rods! Next time i will also round the corners of the bearings before getting to this point as if they are too sharp mine catch.

No more work on it tonught 10pm here. Which is a shame as i would really love to see this one finished before the end of the month as i had set myself a bit of a target. Not that it was a hard target but more of an aim. If it is finished over easter it will be soon enough!

[DougN]

Move on a month again. This time Easter has allowed more time on the chassis and again it has been stripped down and the rear right hand horn guide has been adjusted... running is smoother now and I can't seem to get it too much better. So I took the hard decision to clean it all down and dismantle for painting. So yes the chassis is all painted and I have just reassembled it and it looks like the Oxford RTR one ... so I seem to be achieving my aim. Yes I have done everything on this and it has a better representation of the valve gear... which at 10pm has made a break for freedom so will have to be re soldered in the morning!

Between Daddyman and Dave Bradwell I also decided to "rip off the bandaid" so to speak and file off the smokebox rivets.. it was easier than I expected really.., and as I had the paint out any way I recoated the smoke box and scratched paint.

As an aside I was watching a YouTube clip today which I think was part of a marsden rail video showing York shed which said that the shed held a contingent of j27/j26 to the very end of steam. Along with a large number of V2's so I am very happy with my current projects. I will be restarting the V2's once this j26 is finished.

I will pop up some photos when it's done, the completion items are: insulate the motor tags, finish the back head, glaze the cab windows, cab fall plate, a crew and coaling. Then over to David Clift's for running in trials!

[dclift]

Then over to David Clift's for running in trials!

It looks like I had better get on with the wiring so that it can do laps of the room!

[Porcy Mane]

Just found this thread. It's probably way too late but here's some images of the J27 whilst undergoing its last rebuild.

There's some big bits missing and I'd imagine a few small post preservation alterations & additions.

J27-2016-Rebuild-027-EditSm-©PwD.jpg

J27-2016-Rebuild-011-EditSm©PwD.jpg

Although it's generally accepted that the inside of frames were painted red to assist with crack detection, I have a November 1963 colour transparency of a J27 undergoing its first steam test following a general at Darlington. The only part between the frames not painted black is the centre section of the reverser assembly. This is coloured light grey so possibly it's just unpainted bright iron?

P

[Dave Holt]

Interesting, if somewhat dubious, concept that painting the inside rods red aided crack detection. Clearly, a clean red surface would give better contrast than, say, black, but inside valve gear would not stay clean for long. With the exception of special brittle coatings, formulated to reveal cracking and then not always easy to use successfully, paint is too elastic and flexible to reveal the initiation of fatigue cracks and could well hide a developing crack till it had become quite severe. Bare metal, as in outside rods, would be a more suitable finish for detecting the early onset of cracks. Not that it affects our models and most locos do appear to be painted red between the frames. I see that the official BR livery specification was for black but I suspect most works continued pre-nationalisation practice of red.
Dave.

[bécasse]

I see that the official BR livery specification was for black but I suspect most works continued pre-nationalisation practice of red.

I am old enough to have visited all three of the Southern Region's main works while they were still maintaining steam locos and if they had been painting the insides of frames red I would have noticed and remembered (wondering why). I also visited Derby and Stratford and I don't remember seeing any red painting there either.

Darlington had a bit of a reputation for doing its own thing but it is interesting that they are reputed to have turned out their 350hp shunters with unpainted coupling rods when the BR specification definitely demanded red paint.

[DougN]

Well, as this is the end of my annual leave/ Easter/ ANZAC day break. I have finished or just about the J26. Coal loading,loco fall plate and 3 link couplings are the main items to complete.

I have removed the rivets from the smoke box which I have to agree does look better. The coal space looks strange as I have glued a piece of plasticard and painted it black (OK it isnt dry so appears glossy in areas!).

The first photo is the underside of the chassis. Thanks to the above photos from Porcy, I have painted alot red and it really does fill the area in the chassis. Not all prototypical from the photos but enough to catch the eye and appear to fill the space. This I have found surprisingly enjoyable to put in.

DSC_0467.JPG

Next is an over all shot

DSC_0466.JPG

DSC_0465.JPG

This last one shows the crew and the interior of the cab painted cream. I had done this as
white and then saw a cab ride of the J27 on the NYMR. this was good to show the deep brown of the window frames and the cab sheets were more cream than white. The front cab was black on the interior as well.

DSC_0464.JPG

DSC_0468.JPG

I have really enjoyed the build and now that it is basically finished I am looking forward to moving on to the next model. Probably back to the V2's but I may do some other less demanding things such as the back head to the Q6.... which hasn't been done for years.... along with fixing the brake gear on that as the J26 I have finally resolved the brake gear. It isn't removeable but it is there and can be removed with difficulty. (I have super glued it in place!)

Thanks goes to Dave Bradwell for the kit and the assistance. Daddyman for his help on the valve gear and smokebox rivets, Porcy, for the chassis photos. It is quite a challenge to model things from the distance as to go and drop in on the NYMR isn't a nice weekend away! I am still waiting on the Yeadons register for the class which I ordered over 2 months ago! We accept the challenge living in Australia, but having such a helpful society to call on is wonderful. Next time I am in the UK I hope to meet you face to face!

[Knuckles]

Looks a really nice end result. Just read the entire thread in 1 hit, quiet enjoyable too.
Has been an interesting read.

Seems it was a bit of a bugga at times, how come it kept falling to bits??