Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

steves17
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Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby steves17 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:46 pm

I'm still pretty green to modelling, but the last ( as of tomorrow Thursday 8 Jan ) issue of BRM contained an enticing article on building the SilverFox J70 and I thought it would be a good starter. I've heard of a Connoisseur version thats supposed to be superior, but can't seem to find any site selling it or much on it in general, bar an O gauge version.

http://jimmcgeown.com/0%20Gauge%20Locomotives.html

This SilverFox 4mm one, with glazed windows and brass wire hand rails looked alright to me though ( unless there is a detailed add on to replace the resin cow catches of corse ;) ).
Anyway the article mentions using a Black Beatle to power it- or otherwise a Tenshodo SPUD ( other options available of corse ). Not surprisingly they didn't mention about EM or P4, but looking at JFS's post above, would all I have to do is remove the wheels and fit P4 ones further out?.
I've seen Flymo's impressive Y6, but imagine with the boiler removed there is plenty of room for a Zemo Flywheel MZ634 chip with additional room for a bit of lead to weigh the whole resin body down. Lowering the body to a comfortable clearance should also prevent the missing wheels showing unless your right at eye level.

So a simple wheel swap is about all I would need to do in addition to the general OO kit building process right? I guess the size of the wheel is not exactly crucial, as the bogie is adjusted in height to suit the shell. Is there a recommended suggestion like Ultrascale's 2'9" Disc Diesel Wheels?

Ta
Steve.
Last edited by steves17 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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John McAleely
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby John McAleely » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:16 pm

steves17 wrote:JFS's post above


Having moved this post, the referred post is here.

nigelcliffe
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby nigelcliffe » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:19 pm

steves17 wrote:Not sure wether I should post this here or in the Y6 thread.
I'm still pretty green to modelling, but the last ( as of tomorrow Thursday 8 Jan ) issue of BRM contained an enticing article on building the SilverFox J70. I've heard of a Connoisseur version thats supposed to be superior, but can't seem to find any site selling it or much on it in general. This one with glazed windows and brass wire hand rails looked alright to me though ( unless there is a detailed add on to replace the resin cow catches of corse ;) ).
Anyway it mentions using a Black Beatle to power it- or otherwise a Tenshodo SPUD. Not surprisingly they didn't mention about EM or P4, but looking at JFS's post above, would all I have to do is remove the wheels and fit P4 ones further out?.
I've seen Flymo's impressive Y6, but imagine with the boiler removed there is plenty of room for a Zemo Flywheel MZ634 chip with additional room for a bit of lead to weigh the whole resin body down. Lowering the body to a comfortable clearance should also prevent the missing wheels showing unless you right at eye level.


Having drifted into GER Trams....
The Connoisseur kit in 4mm scale was a limited run which Paul ( Flymo ) arranged. Not sure if any are left from the batches produced.
If building one with a reasonably scale representation of the boiler, then there isn't a vast amount of room inside. There is space for a chip and stay-alive between the frames of the one I built recently (same kit as Flymo), but its small parts soldering. Two dozen 100uF surface mount ceramic capacitors in my example, attached to a CT DCX75 decoder.

If willing to fill the boxy-van like space with electrical parts, then there is loads of space for decoders and stay-alive devices.

The Zimo MX634 is a bit large for the loco, even though stay-alive hookup is simplified. The much smaller Zimo's plus a diode and two resistors before the capacitor will take up far less space.


If the skirts of the tram are at the correct height, the wheels barely show at all. If really bothered, you could add the shadow of the bottom of a third wheel as a bit of lightly sprung metal or even plastic if you get the other two axles in about the right places.


I really ought to finish my tram ! There are a couple of electrical tricks to add, then I can paint it.



- Nigel

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Flymo748
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:16 pm

nigelcliffe wrote:Having drifted into GER Trams....
The Connoisseur kit in 4mm scale was a limited run which Paul ( Flymo ) arranged. Not sure if any are left from the batches produced.


I'm afraid not... All kits, 36 in total, found owners and the moulds were expected to be life-expired when the run was finished.

That said, I have never looked hard to see what components might be available from other sources, such as Alan Gibson for buffers. Running off further etches should be no problem. I'll have a look at the question sometime when I have a wet Saturday afternoon.

nigelcliffe wrote:If building one with a reasonably scale representation of the boiler, then there isn't a vast amount of room inside. There is space for a chip and stay-alive between the frames of the one I built recently (same kit as Flymo), but its small parts soldering. Two dozen 100uF surface mount ceramic capacitors in my example, attached to a CT DCX75 decoder.


You may be surprised about how much space there actually is available, and how much weight you can pack in as a result. Using a motor bogie rather than a separate chassis will probably reduce this, but you have the opportunity to "plate" the insides of the skirts with lead sheet.

nigelcliffe wrote:If the skirts of the tram are at the correct height, the wheels barely show at all. If really bothered, you could add the shadow of the bottom of a third wheel as a bit of lightly sprung metal or even plastic if you get the other two axles in about the right places.


Very true! Unless I'm very steady handed, or it's on a straight bit of plain track, mine is a right swine to put on the track accurately. It's exactly because you *can't* see the wheels that it is tricky.

Anyway, enjoy the modelling. They are a lovely prototype, and I'm sure that they will be a great first choice for trying to produce something running in P4.

Cheers
Flymo
[edited because I put the quotes in the wrong places]
Last edited by grovenor-2685 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed the [/quote] you missed, rgds Keith
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jayell
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby jayell » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:23 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
Very true! Unless I'm very steady handed, or it's on a straight bit of plain track, mine is a right swine to put on the track accurately. It's exactly because you *can't* see the wheels that it is tricky.


how about using the putterona thingummy from the stores ;)

john lewis

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Flymo748
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:26 am

jayell wrote:
Flymo748 wrote:
Very true! Unless I'm very steady handed, or it's on a straight bit of plain track, mine is a right swine to put on the track accurately. It's exactly because you *can't* see the wheels that it is tricky.


how about using the putterona thingummy from the stores ;)


Hi John,

That's an excellent idea. I actually have three of them in my toolbox at home.

However the circumstances that I'm normally thinking of is when I'm manning the Society Stand at exhibitions. My little tram engine is a regular there amongst the "toys" as it's a good example of a beginner's etched kit, a simple CSB chassis, and how to hide a DCC chip within a small locomotive.

And of course, I quite like showing it off ;-)

So I don't normally have a Putterona to hand :-(

For Steve, I've looked through the pictures that I have from the build, and this one of it part-way through being painted is about the lowest angle one that I have. Hopefully it shows to you just how insignificant the wheels are. Even like this, I can hardly pick them out against the sleepers.

GER Y6 tram 036.jpg


Cheers
Flymo
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Will L
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby Will L » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:33 am

When not in use on the Wisbech& Upwell, mostly on dock sides railways, these locos were known to run with their side sheets removed. You can see the wheels well enough then, and the J70 particularly would make a challenging model.
Image
This image if of one striped down at Stratford awaiting attention and was the only one I could pick up easily on the internet, however my bookshelf shows there are more to to be found Andrew Ingram's book The Wisbech & Upwell Tramway, Centenary Album, including an undressed Y6 at the Stockton and Darlington centenary event in 1925. And more still, plus drawings so you can start really spotting the differences, in the more recent Oakwood press W&U book, (no152) by Peter Paye.

steves17
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby steves17 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:35 pm

Thanks Will, i've been meaning to find somewhere where I could get scale drawings. As I could only find the odd basic one or ones for the Y6. Luckily my model will always be having the skirting on, so thats not an engineering problem for me ;)

Very impressive Flymo- that is in 4mm right? Were the cowcatchers part of your mouldings- or separate? Thats the biggest failing of the Silver Fox model that I can see. I'de be interested in buying them if they are available somehow and you're right you can hardly see the four wheels. Will bare the Putterona thingy in mind if I really struggle to get it on the track.

I actually have have an old Die cast model I got on e-bay, painted up in LNER livery. Bar the buffers it looks OK overall. I was thinking of trying to get this one operational as a starting point and see how it preforms ( no elaborate boiler at this point ;) ) . If I could steer the conversation back to motoring, what would be the best way to adapt a motor bogie? The Black Beetle referenced looks like it's axels have been trimmed down,
Image
so i'm not sure if I could simply give it a wheel swap and chip it. Is there something anyone would recommend? Bare in mind i've only got as far as preforming two simple Ultrascale wheel conversions drop in swaps for my bogie Heljan diesels.

Thanks
Steve
Last edited by steves17 on Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.

martin goodall
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby martin goodall » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:30 pm

I built a Y6 from a D&S kit a good few years ago now.

I put a Tenhsodo motor bogie under it (26mm wheelbase as I recall - which is slightly under scale length but can't be seen under the side-skirts). Replacement of the 00 wheels with P4 wheelsets proved to be very easy. The nylon final drive pinions were recovered from the original axles and re-used - all very easy and completely reliable in operation.

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Flymo748
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:15 pm

steves17 wrote:Very impressive Flymo- that is in 4mm right?


Yes, that's in P4. Built from the Connoisseur Models kit. I have another one, or possibly two, unmade kits of the same. Fortunately Geoff includes a selection of number plates on the etch, and also the nameplates "Toby", so I have a further choice of identities for these.

If you ever see the Society Stand at an exhibition, if I'm manning it then I'll have the tram with me. You're welcome to have a good close look at it.

steves17 wrote:Were the cowcatchers part of your mouldings- or separate? Thats the biggest failing of the Silver Fox model that I can see. I'de be interested in buying them if they are available somehow and you're right you can hardly see the four wheels.


I'm afraid that the cowcatchers are part of the etched kit. They do fold up very well and are quite robust. You can see the whole etch here, and that there aren't very many parts at all to it.

GER Y6 tram 004.jpg



steves17 wrote:Image
so i'm not sure if I could simply give it a wheel swap and chip it. Is there something anyone would recommend? Bare in mind i've only got as far as preforming two simple Ultrascale wheel conversions drop in swaps for my bogie Heljan diesels.


Give it a try and see... Bear in mind that with two diesel conversions already, you have more experience under your belt in building running P4 locomotives than some Armchair Modellers...

Cheers
Flymo
Thanks
Steve
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Ian Everett
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby Ian Everett » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:51 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
I'm afraid that the cowcatchers are part of the etched kit. They do fold up very well and are quite robust. You can see the whole etch here, and that there aren't very many parts at all to it.


I'm sure I remember an article in a1950s or 60s RM about scratch building a tram engine*, where the cowcatchers were soldered up from pins and wire. I imagine these got a thorough bashing in reality so this could be a nice exercise in soldering and if the end result is a bit wonky, then so would be the prototype! ;)

Ian

* I've a feeling that the article might have been by one WV Audry?

Edit -
Indeed it was - July 1961 - see http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/rm-1961-07.htm - Shows You How!

steves17
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby steves17 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:24 pm

Ta Martin- thats encouraging to hear.

I've dug out the pre built one i've got and can see its built on a Tenshodo WB-31 bogie. That means nothing to me, but I guess its a few years old-will hook my DCC system up to a bit of OO track to see if its still working. This one's axels haven't been lopped off-might even try and convert this one as it is, if it rolls well enough.

I've had a quick look online at available bogies otherwise and i'll need to order some wheels from Ultrascale anyway, so might as well get the ball rolling on their 6 month waiting list.

Cheers Flymo.

Not sure what P4 events i'll be attending this year, but plan to go on the next Misisden corse for track building. Might attend the Wells one again of perhaps even the big one -will see, but it would be nice to see your model in the frames. Afraid i've been an arm chair modeller for a few months myself. I've been concentrating on research etc, while giving my account time to recover but I've had a very helpful visit to my nearest P4 club the other night, so have been injected with some fresh optimism and am soldering the next board for my Ballahoo tunnels trial plank layout while some orders are in the post to hopefully get it fully operational.


Dam Ian I should of had another look at that article myself, as i'm actually modelling the Railway Series Books! Think I clicked on it when I was panning to start up in OO, but haven't gone back to it since as I partially dismissed Awdry's models, on the grounds of them being quite long in the tooth. The pins and paper idea is certainly ingenious though, might give it a try nice one :D I'm not really concentrating on the NWR locos, as I want to have a layout or two for them to actually run on first- got Boco and Bear going now at least. I basically plan to build up in difficulty, but it will be great to have a 'Toby's Seaside Holiday' Toby, from his Great Yarmouth days and a later scratch built NWR one rolling along. I have a brass kit for Henrietta too, but thats for after i've done a few brass kits to satisfaction ;)
Last edited by steves17 on Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

nigelcliffe
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Re: Motoring options for Y6 / J70 models

Postby nigelcliffe » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:15 am

The thread has prompted action on my workbench. After a fair bit of cursing, the couplings are now working on the Y6, video available:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vur0PQe_Gg

Which leaves the next steps as a few details to add and then start painting.


(* yet another variation on the designs, new versions usually cause cursing until they behave. )

- Nigel


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