class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank

Postby jim s-w » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:54 am

Agreed Andy

It's it's ugliness that appeals.

Going back to the cab area, comparing drawings, the top vertical section of the bunker (ther rear most bit) is deeper on the 94xx than the 15xx

The boiler, smoke box and firebox seem to match (although the chimney is in a different place) and the tanks also match in terms of depth and the detail on the front.

Cheers

Jim

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Horsetan
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank

Postby Horsetan » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:18 am

A bit more measuring up of the Lima bodyshell suggests that:

- footplate 2.5mm too long (mainly due to incorrect stretch between driving and trailing splashers)
- firebox and tanks 1mm too long
- cab marginally too long, which makes bunker look a bit short

The rest seems fine!! :thumb
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank

Postby jim s-w » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:38 pm

Hi all

Image

These pair are a little bit chalk and cheese in a way. The 94xx (at the back) is hoped to be a quickie while the 15xx (at the front) will be a very slow burner indeed.

I say slow burner because I don't even know what i'm going to do about a chassis yet, but I'll worry about that later.  The body is a combination of a Hornby cab lengthened by splicing in a 1mm section in front of the bunker and grafting another 1mm section to the front to which the windows were cut out using the originals a guide.  The tanks (from another Lima 94xx) have been shortened and made deeper by adding another 1mm section of plasticard to the bottom before filling and shaping. The smokebox and first section of the boiler come from an old Airfix Prairie tank kit with the front of the lima smokebox grafted back on.

Cheers

Jim

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Horsetan
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank

Postby Horsetan » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:37 am

Jim:

Have you asked Alan Doherty at Worsley Works whether he might be able to design a 15xx chassis?
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank

Postby jim s-w » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:44 am

Nope. But with the SVR just down the road (although I think 1500 is away at the moment) I might end up doing my own.

Cheers

Jim

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Noel
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank

Postby Noel » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:35 am

Jim, sorry to flag up possible problems. Externally the no. 10 boiler of these pannier tanks tapers pretty uniformly from firebox to smokebox, whereas the front ring of the no. 2 boiler on a large prairie [the Airfix kit] is parallel. Also, the smokebox saddle on the 94xx has vertical sides, but that on the 15xx has sides which are angled outwards to the base, and the steam pipes are angled more sharply still. The tank sides should be virtually flush with the cab sheeting, very like the 94xx.

Noel
Regards
Noel

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank

Postby jim s-w » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:58 am

Hi Noel

I guess the airfix kit is wrong then as the boiler certainly isn't parrarel. I'm planning to cut off the steam pipes so I'll tweak the saddle when I do that.

The tank sides are virtually flush, I think it's an optical illusion created by adding the new face to the cab front.

Cheers and keep the comments coming

Jim

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Horsetan
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank

Postby Horsetan » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:08 pm

A second Lima 94xx shell has now turned up. As it's green, I'll probably use this one as a 94, whilst the black one may find itself turning into a 15xx....
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby jim s-w » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:10 pm

Hi all

Image

The Hornby cab I used for my 15xx had no detail really so the rear window framing was added from the Mainly Trains etch. The rivets are the water slide ones from Archers which have been around for a while now. They make the whole task quite enjoyable but they are a bit tricky to use. The main problem is they come off very easily. You can overcome this by working in small areas and sealing them with Klear (or Humbrol Clear) to protect them while you work on the next bit. The other tip is don't be too adventurous. It's very tempting to try to add a nice long line of rivets in one hit but the transfer tends to break so I find it best to work with strips of about a dozen or so.

Image

The detail on the Lima 94xx cab is much better but oddly when it comes to the rear it doesn't match the rest of the model at all. It's almost like an early EP sample and when the final model was completed, the guy charged with doing this area pulled a sickie! As with the 15xx, archers rivets, Mainly Trains rear windows and bits of strip metal and plastic were used.

While work will continue on the 15xx (Handrails next) contrary to my last post the 94xx will now take a back seat while a third party looks into doing a chassis for it.  

Cheers

Jim

Joe Newman
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby Joe Newman » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:49 am

Jim,

I am about to use Archer rivets for the first time - on aluminium.

Would you recommend applying them to the bare metal before painting or on a primed surface?

Joe

David Bigcheeseplant
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby David Bigcheeseplant » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:37 am

Starting to look good but just wonder why you have not put on GWR lamp irons which are 90 degrees to the type used by other railways and you have put on your model

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby jim s-w » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:24 pm

Hi David

Those allocated to bromsgrove didn't have GWR lamp irons, see

https://www.flickr.com/photos/44544845@ ... 2755109404

Hth

Jim
Last edited by jim s-w on Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

David Bigcheeseplant
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby David Bigcheeseplant » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:27 pm

Well I learn something there

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Andy W
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby Andy W » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:41 pm

The ugliness is starting to ooze out Jim. V interesting.

To follow up Joe's question - I've read that rivet transfers shouldn't be added to bare metal/plastic - but have also heard his theory dismissed. Any thoughts?

P.S. Bromsgrove has always been a weird place. ;)
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby jim s-w » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:25 pm

Hi Joe and Adam

Sorry for the late reply (replying to David was just a quickie on my phone a work)

I have applied these rivets to a die cast metal bus directly but I did wash it down first to remove any grease. I then wore latex gloves to add hem and primed it after. I don't know if this is overkill but I think the important factor is the final livery.

By that I mean will it just be one colour like my tank engine? In which case I am not all that worried as il just be spraying it black. However if it's more than one colour and I'm planning on masking the model at some point more care might be needed. I haven't got my bus model (the metal one) to the painting stage yet so I can't really say for sure.

(I realise that doesn't really help, sorry)

Jim

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Horsetan
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby Horsetan » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:22 pm

Andy W wrote:... Bromsgrove has always been a weird place. ;)


An acquaintance of mine lived there. Then he got divorced and moved out to Dubai, where he became very wealthy very quickly.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

dal-t
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby dal-t » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:39 pm

The Archer video on applying surface detail (resin decals) - well worth watching if you can stand the US 'style' of the series - shows them going onto bare plastic, and states they are for 'under paint'. The only proviso made is that the plastic must be thoroughly cleaned/degreased, and it does warn that some varieties of resin seem determined to reject them, in which case a coat of clear primer is recommended. Since whitemetal and brass can be degreased as easily as plastic, there shouldn't be any problem applying them direct to a metal body. Once applied, Archer recommend the use of Micro Sol to 'fix' the details, and say that after that they are robust to all normal handling (which should include masking).
David L-T

Joe Newman
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby Joe Newman » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:05 am

Many thanks David and Jim

The video was very helpful - although I found the voice a little irritating.

So I will try the techniques he used on my aluminium sheet.

Best wishes

Joe

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Horsetan
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby Horsetan » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:16 am

Just to muddy the waters a bit, there are rumours that South Eastern Finecast have started looking at the old K's/NuCast range with a view to resurrecting maybe a few of them, hopefully on modern etched chassis. I wonder if the ex-K's 15xx will be on that list?

UPDATE: I think the cab roof arc on Jim's Hornby cab graft is too low for a 15xx. It needs to be to all intents and purposes the same as a 94xx's cab roof.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby jim s-w » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:10 am

Horsetan wrote:
UPDATE: I think the cab roof arc on Jim's Hornby cab graft is too low for a 15xx. It needs to be to all intents and purposes the same as a 94xx's cab roof.


I disagree, pics and drawings show it definitely isn't the same as a 94xx

Cheers

Jim

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby jim s-w » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:31 pm

Having spent the afternoon looking at pics of both I've changed my mind. I'll swap the roof for the one from my 94xx ;)

Jim

dal-t
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby dal-t » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:40 pm

Wow, that's a relief, I spent thirty minutes looking from one to another without being able to spot the difference, and began to think my eyesight must be failing faster than anticipated - if it is, at least we're back in it together ...
David L-T

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Horsetan
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby Horsetan » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:10 pm

dal-t wrote:... at least we're back in it together ...


"We're all in this together", etc. :roll:
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Horsetan
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank

Postby Horsetan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:07 am

Horsetan wrote:
grovenor-2685 wrote:Alan Gibson has the frames as item LM1-244.

When I asked Alan about these many years ago, he said they were for the early 1500s (i.e. 19th century) built at Wolverhampton on a 7'3 x 8'3" wheelbase, not the Hawksworth design, so the AGW frames would be completely wrong.


I stand corrected. Having acquired a set of LM1-244, I measured these on the drawings, and can confirm they are indeed for the 15xx shunter. The wheelbase is 6'4" x 6'6".

Also unearthed an original K's smokebox saddle, cylinders, crosshead and valve spindle guides plus balance weights and valve gear fret, which could prove useful.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jim s-w
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Re: class 15xx pannier tank (with a bit of 97xx thrown in)

Postby jim s-w » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:44 pm

Thanks for that, any chance of a pic, is there any detail on them?

Cheers

Jim


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