A Class 782 for Barnton

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Andy W
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Andy W » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:13 pm

Great work Lindsay. I might get shot down for this, but I can't imagine too many people complaining that there's a hint of a bare axle behind the smoke box. There will be plenty to admire and hold the punters' interest when they view this lovely tank engine. Of course YOU may feel the need to add more detail for your own satisfaction. I would probably be tempted to add a jack lying on the footplate! It could be seen as cheating, but life's too short to cover everything.

Inspiring stuff.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

Lindsay G
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Lindsay G » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:58 am

Hi Andy,

I'll mull over the extra detailing down under - I'll need to ensure the chassis allows free running before adding any fancy stuff to it in any case. However, I've got a class 104 and a Jumbo that will definitely need something to hide wide open spaces, so I'll have to figure out what's entailed sooner or later.


Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

Class 782 for Barnton - Cab Details & Fit

Postby Lindsay G » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:26 pm

Lots of time has been spent on three tiny aspects of the cab, but then things suddenly take off again………


Beading is relatively easy, but finicky. Just to spice things up, the Caley decided to have the side handles 3” out from the cab side plate secured at the upper end by the beading turning through 90o – fun, huh? As the cab aperture has 3 different radii, there was no way I was going to try and fashion a single piece to fit perfectly. In fact, I wasn’t even looking forward to fettling the L shape at each end of such a thin strip. Then, the eureka moment had me rummaging through the etch scrap box to find 4 corner pieces from frets that were roughly the required 1mm wide – these would admirably provide the 90o return.

fret v beading.jpg
Top two strips are raw fret, bottom two are similar fret strips fashioned into the handrail end returns
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Fettling was minimal and once done I started fitting from the ends and worked around the aperture making a joint at the top edge which was concealed once soldered. I’m well pleased with the relative ease in which this was created.


Caley locos carried lamps with front and rear lenses on each side of the cab and, more often than not, these weren’t removed in daylight hours (the image at the start of this thread is a case in point although the design of lamp is somewhat uncommon). Lost wax castings of these lamps are available from Caley Coaches, so the majority of locos on Barnton will be equipped with them. They come on sprues of 10 and were left on the sprue for all of the fettling. They have what can only be described as a nasty blob on each side which is meant to represent the bottom of the handle – well disfigured and oversized - that was the first thing to be attacked. Next, how to fit them to ensure they stay fitted? And assuming they’ll be illuminated, how to ensure no light escapes other than through the lenses? A short length of thin brass tube will do both.
The lamp bodies were drilled out through both lenses (.7mm) and from the cab side of the lamp (1mm). A length of (nominal) 1mm osd brass rod (courtesy of Eileens) was drilled out to .85mm for a short length to accommodate tiny LEDs, and was then soldered into place in the lamp housing before being parted with a mini disc. The hole between the front and rear lenses was then redrilled to clear out the solder as was the rod. Here’s the sprue with 2 lamps drilled and fitted with the rod (to the left) and one of the tiny LEDs :

Lamps & LED.jpg
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The holes in the cab side were drilled then broached out to accommodate the rod, the lamps finally removed from the sprue, and soldered into place – a cocktail stick rammed unceremoniously up the rear end to ensure no solder entered. The same method can be used for securing them to the whitemetal Class 439. Illuminating the lamps isn’t the highest priority, but they’re ready for lighting :

Lighting up time.jpg
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Apologies for the quality of this image – ‘twas the only way I could show the light emitting. Methinks white LEDs will have to be used with the lenses tinted accordingly. Now, here comes the theory : in the loco, the wires from the LED will be lead to the front corner of the cab and run down to below the footplate where they can be joined via a connector to the decoder sited on the chassis (even with a tender loco, the chances of seeing these thin wires is pretty remote). The cab roof will be removable to allow access should the LEDs need to be replaced.

Going slightly off thread - a question for anyone out there knowledgeable about LEDs. The LEDs being used for these lamps came from Express Models where I also got an initial supply of larger surface mount LEDs. Both cost around £6 for 4/5 complete with resistors. However, I’ve since bought 200 (100 white, 100 yellow) of the surface mounts for less than £4 the lot including P&P on Ebay from China (search for 0603 LEDs) – just a tad cheaper, what? If the latter can be picked up for such knockdown amounts (the resistors also cost buttons so aren’t the issue), can the tiny LEDs for these lamps be picked up for a similar sum elsewhere? So far, I’ve drawn a blank. They must have many applications in 4mm. Does anyone know where these tiny LEDs might be picked up (attached to wires preferably)?

Enough on lamps and LEDs, on to my third time-consumer………


I had predrilled holes on the footplate for the cab-side handrails – waste of time – I got 3 out of 4 wrong! They were plugged and redrilled - more than once. It’s only at this stage that I notice that the handles on the prototype taper outwards towards the bottom (can’t the Caley make anything straightforward?). 0.4mm NS wire was to be the option, but comparison of that on the model against the prototype didn’t hold up well. One of my next projects will be an older Caley well tank with even more ornate handrails, so I can’t be defeated in getting a near representation of an easier option on this engine!

I estimate that the scale diameter goes from c.4mm at the top to c.6mm at the bottom, so out comes the Dremel again and in goes a short length of .6mm NS wire. At first only the top 25% is left showing and it’s then tapered down with a file held against it, moved out and filed again, and so on to create a continuous taper. Finally, when most of the wire is showing and filed, the wire was held against a flat surface, the drill turned on, and fine wet and dry on a nail stick pressed against it to get a uniform and smooth taper. (Confession : before getting the process right, I did go through a good few more millimetres of wire). In the end I have 4 tapered handrails which I promptly scatter onto the floor – oh, fu…ntastic!

After test fitting of the handrails (once they were finally found), the cab assembly was soldered to the footplate in just a few minutes, cleaned off (not just a few minutes), then the handrails soldered into place. Bolstered by getting these cab details out of the way, a few more details were added in quick succession in the shape of more handrail knobs, cabside steps, and what I now know is a lever for the water level test cock :

right front.jpg
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left rear.jpg
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As one might have guessed, I do like adding fine details and there’s still more to be done…. but it’s getting very close to the time when I’ve got to bring a lathe into play. I could purchase chimney, dome, etc., but what’s the point of having bought a lathe (ex Mike Gilgannon) and had a masterclass from Mr Bendall if I don’t put that machine and tuition into action? None. This loco is where it starts to happen and I’m hoping that it’s a turning (no pun) point in both confidence and future use of the lathe. I can hardly turn back now that I’ve signalled the intent…which was one of the underlying reasons for starting this thread.

The next update may be some time off!


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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby essdee » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:35 pm


This is going to be a real belter - lovely, lovely work! The shadow of those spectacle protection bars is a gem.

Waiting, agog.......




Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Coronach » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:40 pm

She's looking extremely well, Lindsay. Knocks my old cast clunker out of the park! :)


Terry Bendall
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:29 am

quote="essdee"]This is going to be a real belter - lovely, lovely work![/quote]

It is indeed. A competition winner if ever there was one, if you want to go that way Lindsay.

Lindsay G wrote:This loco is where it starts to happen and I’m hoping that it’s a turning (no pun) point in both confidence and future use of the lathe.

Given what you have achieved so far I am sure that you will have no problems in mastering the lathe, and if you do, you know where I am. :) Mind you there is lots of lathe expertise a bitcloser to you than I am although I will be at the Glasgw show with the Society stand in February.

Terry Bendall

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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby essdee » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:49 pm

Hi Lindsay,

Happy New Year, and looking forward to further bar-raising from you with this build. With a clear road to three 812 Class builds ahead of me now, I returned to the CR fray inspired by your modified centre coupling rod boss and the working cab side lamp. I will be expecting a workable reverser lever in that cab, no less.

My first task after a diversion into matters LNER was to back-track to my first set of 812 rods from the Caley Coaches kit, to try and emulate your standard. I did not wish to dismantle the rods as they were used to set up the chassis on a jig, and I wondered if I dared modify those centre bosses in-situ.

Well I did, and it worked, so in case others find themselves with a similar quandary, 'this - is what - you do', as those of a vintage will recall Jimmy Young saying.

1) I ground/filed away the original central bosses, being wary to avoid the knuckle joint.
2) I filed a deep notch in some NS etch waste, to enclose the knuckle joint by rather more than half its diameter.
3) Having liberally vaselined the knuckle joint, I positioned the notched NS plate on the face of the rod so that the joint was still free to move, and carefully applied flux and 145deg solder until the joint was made. To my great relief, the knuckle joint remained free.
4) I carefully ground away excess NS to replicate the shape of the oiling point and the lower part of the new boss profile, while leaving the prominent step between the boss and the front section of rod. I finished off by shaping the top edge.
5) I am tempted, but have not yet dared, to flood some more solder behind the new boss, to give it greater depth. We shall see....

Having completed this very worthwhile transformation, an evil gremlin popped up and said: 'You aren't going to leave those end bosses as etched are you, missing that prominent step and with the full thickness extending too far along the rod section? Not now the centre boss looks more like the photos?'

Indeed not (but I nearly did). So:

6) I filed a notch adjacent to each oiling point on the end bosses, and soldered a sliver of thin NS etch waste on top.
7) I ground/filed flush the front and rear faces to create a neat step on the boss.
8) I ground/filed away the excess thicker section extending along the rod from each end boss, to creat a truncated/stepped boss, as per photos.

I hope the photos of the original and amended rods illustrate what I did, and the enhanced character of the resultant rods. The oil cups were too wide and tall as etched, and have been reduced accordingly, also. The sliver of NS etch waste appears too.

It actually took less time to do than decribe, that last modification, and I am very pleased with it. When I have done another five coupling rods similarly I may be a tad weary of it, though!

So which one of us will be silly enough to drill the oil cups to take corks? I am rather wary of clearances beneath that footplate, though.

Over to you now LIndsay, looking forward to seeing the chassis develop.



Lindsay G
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Lindsay G » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:01 pm

Lovely, lovely work, Steve. I trust Messrs Pairman and Davidson will appreciate the effort. Mmm, I've overlooked the slight difference between the AGW etches of the outer bosses and the Caley items - must pay more attention!

Adding corks to the rods? Now, that might be a welcomed diversion from getting to grips with the Unimat for turning all the furniture on my boiler and tanks. More will follow once the turnings are finished. However, an interim update - whilst waiting for some brass rod to arrive, a few minutes were spent this afternoon grinding some HSS steel into several tools following Mr Bendall's articles in Snooze. I must say that the early indications are that they provide a superior finish to the carbide tipped tools I've been using to date. I'd shied away from making such tools considering it a black art that I'd maybe not master, but, just as I'm finding with other lathe work, it's amazing just what can be achieved if you give it a go. And if problems are encountered there are a number out there ready to assist - 'tis indeed a good Society.


Terry Bendall
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:28 am

essdee wrote:So which one of us will be silly enough to drill the oil cups to take corks?

And when you have you will have to find some corks to fit in them. :D

Lindsay G wrote:it's amazing just what can be achieved if you give it a go.

Way to go Lindsay. The only way to learn how to do something is to do it. You can read about, ask questions, look at forums, but in the end just do it! :D :D

How does a top class sports person or musician reach that level of skill - by many hours of practice. Same with modelling.

Terry Bendall

Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

A Class 782 for Barnton - Turning Point

Postby Lindsay G » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:32 pm

The last update mentioned that I was reaching the stage where lathe work could be put off no further. And so it came to pass that the lathe, and all these curious bits that came with it or purchased since, were dusted off followed by a quick re-read of Terry’s articles in Snooze. The first hurdle was encountered more or less immediately in figuring out how to hold the brass bar to fly-cut the rounded base – a solution was found as was recounted in another thread. This was followed by starting to turn a chimney and dome and the next hurdle encountered - Oh, dear turning fiddly shapes is jumping in at the deep end and not nearly so easy as it appears on You Tube videos. Mostly because I can’t seem to co-ordinate brain and fingers as I turn clockwise instead of counter-clockwise and dig too far into the workpiece, or else turn the cross slide instead of the lead screw, or vice versa, with similar consequences. However, whilst this resulted in a number of odd shaped pieces of brass being rejected (into a box for possible future use), I really was getting to grips with the initial turning down, fly-cutting of bases, and tapping as I was doing all of them frequently! Another aspect that this amateur learnt early-on was the workpiece has to be overlong to be held securely in the tool post for fly-cutting so a number of stumpy lengths of brass rod were the first items into the rejects box.

If at first.jpg
OK, not a perfect start but compared to Edison's attempts at shedding light it's not too bad.
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Such results on the lathe were a bit frustrating but all good stuff on the learning curve. The breakthrough came on the fourth evening when the first dome was turned to my satisfaction. In doing so, I’d employed a template for the top (thanks John Bateson for the tip). The template only took minutes to create – a semi-circle was scribed at the edge of thin NS sheet with dividers, ground out crudely with a Dremel then filed to shape (checking against the part-finished dome’s girth). The bottom curve was cut on the lathe and the sides of the bottom were then filed to a finish by hand (having learnt the hard way that they can’t be done on the lathe). A little bit of wet and dry and I had my first finished turning. This really was the turning point in confidence and enthusiasm – the remaining parts would be approached with more confidence.

There is then a delaying factor. Some time ago, I’d bought a selection of brass rods for turning (sizes guessed purely on gut-feel), but one was well oversized for most things (other than domes), and the others were undersized for virtually everything else! As my turning cock-ups were going to get me through the oversized bar fairly quickly, I decided to delay such cock-ups by purchasing a few diameters of rod nearer the sizes that I needed which would allow decent lengths to both fit into the tool post and well into the space within the chuck. However, whilst awaiting arrival of said rods, amongst other things, I had a go at grinding my own lathe tools and well pleased I was at the results.

Just under 2 weeks after dusting off the lathe and I have turned the items for the loco : one chimney, one dome, 2 tank fillers, 2 sandbox fillers, and a smokebox door all but there :

All things bright and beautiful.jpg
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The smokebox remains un-parted as the lathe has gone belly up on me this evening, and yet another thread has been started seeking any possible solutions. In the meantime, I’ll see if someone in the group might like to do a bit parting for me.

Perhaps this may not seem a lot to show for all the effort and elapsed time. It may have been a lot quicker buying most of these items, however I’ve got to grips with many basis lathe techniques, ground some tools, and learnt lots from experience. Still entry level stuff, but I now have the confidence to use the lathe a lot more in future and I am really starting to appreciate what else it can be used for. Should there be others out there harbouring doubts over their ability to get to grips with their lathes, I do hope that this provides some encouragement to have a go (if not, can I buy your drive unit?).

I also have the satisfaction of knowing that the pieces are of the correct dimensions. I probably would have assumed that castings of similar items in kits were correct but now know that they come in several shapes and sizes but not the correct ones. At least I have all the dimensions and a bit more experience to turn a few replacements.

So, it’s time to heat up the soldering iron once more, and have everything soldered into place. The next update will not have the same delay as this one.


Lindsay G
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A Class 782 for Barnton - Bunging on the Boiler Bits

Postby Lindsay G » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:40 pm

The only boiler item left to procure was the Ramsbottom safety valve. I was pondering whether to turn the base and then manufacture the rest, but with no working lathe presently the decision was made for me. The casting from a Caley Coaches kits looked OK to me previously but now it seems glaringly basic – just the valve shroud with no hint of the valves and an over-broad lever. So, I filed off the lever, mounted the Dremel in a vertical stand (which I thought I might put on Ebay (from whence it came) as I now had a far superior stand on the lathe – a very good decision of mine to be indecisive), drilled 3 holes then burred out the shroud, fitted 2 short lengths of aluminium rod (nothing else of the diameter to hand), fettled a lever, super-glued (super-glued!?!) the lot together and, hey presto, we have a far better representation of a Ramsbottom :

Safety valves.jpg
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Now let’s start to add a few items.

The sandbox caps were straightforward as holes were drilled to locate them and a small diameter of rod left for location purposes so on went the solder.

I couldn’t hold the chimney in place by a screw as the nut to hold the chassis in place was directly below it. I was just going to solder it into place but I’d rather give the chimney and dome one last go on the lathe before final fixing. After much pondering I decided they had to be screwed into place for removal for final turning. Also, I’m presently trying to confirm the exact sheeting arrangement atop the boiler/tanks in Caley days . The chassis nut area under the smokebox was removed and holes drilled top and bottom to accommodate a 4BA screw (top) and a screwdriver (bottom). I was going to turn 4BA fixings but with no lathe I rummaged about and found within minutes that old electrical screws are just the job – a quick hacksaw, twice over, and 2 turnings are sitting in place – the fit seems perfect enough to dispense with any solder being applied but I’ll do so in time nevertheless.

Finally the tank fillers. The Caley, in its drive to drive many generations of modellers mental, fitted the tank fillers towards the outer edge of the tank which has a rounded edge. The fillers couldn’t be turned in their entirety so I ended up turning the filler without the bottom flange which I then fettled from brass sheet (a very thin O shape) before curving it then soldering it into place. The intention was to fit the turning within this on the tank top but my turnings looked too tall, so I drilled out the tank top to fit the turning within it.

Boiler fittings.jpg
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The image has one filler fitted and the other resting beside the hole to help with understanding. The whistle is a Caley Coaches item, which I would have used, lathe or not. A lovely little turning that I certainly couldn’t better.

The body now looks more like a working beast and from a distance the finished article……close-to, a lot of wee bits still need to be added. So you can guess what is coming next.


Lindsay G
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A Class 782 for Barnton - Finishing the detailing part 1

Postby Lindsay G » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:58 pm

The tank fillers were the last item mentioned so let’s start there. The first tank filler had been easily positioned then quickly soldered into place. The second filler was a bitch to position correctly and then, looking at it critically after being soldered into place, it was slightly lower than the first so out it came and with it the flange as well…damn. Second attempt was as bad, third time was luckier. They look nice but they’re pretty bare. So on to the hinges and catches.

The hinges were fashioned from very thin brass (K&S Shim), thin enough to cut with scissors, soldered at a right angle to some .4mm NS wire, rolled around the wire, soldered again, then the wire trimmed. The brass strip was bent at right angles where it would be cut, held with tweezers on the part beyond the bend, and soldered on. The brass was then cut through, then buffed with some wet and dry. Job done – took just a few minutes and looks the part. The second hinge took 4 goes – that’s 4 hinges started from scratch – and a lot longer before it was positioned correctly in place. Notice a pattern emerging?

Now the catches. Looking at the prototype, the cap is held in place by a fitting on the base that swings over a tongue on the cap and is then screwed tight down by a T bar. I hadn’t bargained for this challenge…but in for a penny. A short length of .7mm NS wire was held in the Dremel and the threaded part fashioned, the top filed down and then across to form a T bar. It was then snipped off, and soldered onto the filler. It took just a few goes to get it upright in all directions and then lots of excess solder to clean off – a joy in all the nooks and crannies. Remember that emerging pattern? The second catch required 5 catches to be fettled – 4 pinged to far flung corners of the room and items 2mm x.7mm do not bear looking for. It also took a lot more attempts to get it correctly into place and excess solder cleaned off more than once. However, once done they’re a joy to look at – trouble is that you need a magnifying lamp/glass to see the T bar and even with the naked eye the catch is hardly noticeable. I think this build is starting to get seriously obsessive. Extreme magnification is a little cruel :

tank filler.jpg
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Next up was a cast reversing lever that only required severe grinding/filing of lost wax excess before it was soldered into place. Slightly crude casting but hardly seen.

Then, on to the coal rails. The upright brackets were fettled quickly from some NS fret and soldered into place. The coal rails on Caley engines were semi-oval in shape, quite 3D to look at. 2 short lengths of .7mm NS were soldered to an offcut of PCB and reduced to a half round by 2 or 3 runs of a mighty big file then smoothed off, removed from the PCB, resoldered the other way round and the top surface filed off then curved with course then fine wet and dry. These were then grooved to bend, bent into U shapes, fettled to length and soldered in place. Pleasantly painless after the preceding problems. However, they don’t look as semi-oval shaped as I thought they did before fitting, but they’re not going to be removed – that would be seriously, seriously, obsessive. They were attacked again in situ.

coal rails.jpg
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Footsteps. These are quite fragile and bend easy, so I’ve been holding off adding them in case of damaging them (learnt from experience again!). Contrary to what I said in the very first post on this thread, I’ve come across a photo of the Dalry Road engine and it has a single step at the front (damn, I did want the more unusual look). The footsteps were easily fettled using the 104 etches as a template and were nearly in place when I noticed (god knows how) that the rear footsteps of the batches of the class being modelled differed from the class 104 and later batches of the current class. So, some estimating of dimensions (as the GA that I have is for the later batches), marking out, and fettling before everything was fitted. Unfortunately, the handles at the front splashers, which I spent time on fitting in the right place, are in the wrong place and so had to be redone before the front steps were located :

Burns Day progress.jpg
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That’s all the detailing done other than in advance of the chimney. Without a lathe, I can’t finish the smokebox door, hence this post is “Finishing the Detail Part 1”. I can’t move back to the chassis either as I was going to drill out the crankpin holes using the vertical column on the lathe. Instead I’ll put all metalworking things to bed and get Plasticard and Evergreen out for the backplate and its details. Styrene! Is that allowed?


Lindsay G
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A Class 782 for Barnton - Backplate

Postby Lindsay G » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:40 pm

A shortish post and not one for the rivet-counters or purists.

As far as I’m aware there are no castings available that provide a good representation of the backplate on this type of loco, so I’ll throw one together. However, whilst wanting to make a good representation of the loco in miniature, I really do not see the point in going to the Nth degree within the gloom of a cab - moreso when a driver and fireman are added to restrict viewing further.

Although the backplate will be a representation of the prototype complete with 2 combination injectors and 2 water level gauges plus regulator handle, steam brake valve and firebox door/opening mechanism/shelf, I'd no intentions of spending countless hours modelling this accurately, so modelling in metal is out, and styrene is in. Time (possibly needless time) was spent on trying to get the presence of equipment and layout right (and in the process learning the names of all these bits that made me sound knowledgeable at the start of the paragraph) :

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The basic shape was taken from a 104 casting. 60 thou plasticard was used initially and when happy with the shape, measuring from the GA, the depth was brought up to 100 thou. Apart from that depth, everything else is judged by eye.

The firebox door is modelled open so that a DCC-controlled LED might simulate the fire being stoked (way down the priority list but catered for now) so a big hole is drilled and cut/filed out. Shelf, door, and handle are all plasticard sheet offcuts. All other detailing is built up from various diameters of plastic rod to simulate valves, gauges, and pipework. Handles are all .3mm wire (and if any are in the wrong position for running an engine, I really do not want to know). A couple of Brassmasters handwheels (pity, I have no small enough ones with etched holes) complete the injectors and the regulator is fabricated from brass and wire, Placed in position and viewed from the outside with a temporary roof in place it’s very acceptable to me :

Backplate in situ.jpg
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It is probably beyond what I really needed or wanted, but it took little more than an evening. It looks busy enough and I’m hoping that the forward corners of the cab do not look bare by comparison. A rotund driver and fireman might just do the business if not.

Meanwhile, a nice young house-hunter has left a lathe, bending bars and a number of items with me as he prepares to make his existing abode clutter-free for viewing. (For those still not seeing the benefits of joining their local group, the sharing of expensive equipment used only on occasions is another good reason for doing so). So, the Mekpak et al are quickly retired and it’s back to metalwork next.


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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby allanferguson » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:24 pm


I admire your plastic backhead, but have you not set it in full throttle?

I'll go and hide now :mrgreen:

Allan F

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Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:05 pm

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby rule55 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:52 pm

I've been following this with much interest - inspiring stuff. You may well have seen these photographs Lindsay but, if you haven't, there are some of the boiler backplate of Caley 419 at Bo'ness which may be of some use. http://www.srpssteam.com/gallery/thumbn ... p?album=18

Keep up the good work.

Tony Jones

Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Lindsay G » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:22 am

I'm going to mentally file Allan's post for the meantime as he can put me out of my ignorance when we meet next month (getting Burntisland 1883 ready for Modelrail in Glasgow 21/23rd February for those that want to see it with its new backscene - nice wee plug, what?).

Next, thanks Tony, I didn't know about those web pages, and I'm not sure how I didn't!

I partially worked from several images of 419 taken on one of many visits to Bo'ness. One problem with my images was that I was standing too close to get a good idea of what was going where, but what I really had to bear in mind was that 419 is Westinghouse braked, and has several post-Caley or post-period alterations like the large square-profile water level gauges (and regulator handle shape - I think!) and other weird and wonderful items that don't appear in period images - all in all its a lot busier than a 782's backplate.

However, I'm still most grateful as there are images in there that will come in handy when it comes to the chassis on this and those on 104/439 models sitting in the wings. Cheers and thanks again,


Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

A Class 782 for Barnton - Finishing the detailing part 2

Postby Lindsay G » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:48 pm

I’ll just go off thread for a few lines. Since the last post, I picked up the latest MRJ and saw Mr Mallard’s masterpieces - and read that he created the coal rails in the same way as myself. Unfortunately that’s where the similarities end. Think I might consider cross-stitch or flower arranging, but I will finish this wee tank in the meantime. Now, back on thread.....

Detailing the front end - this is where Galloway gets quite anal, and very demented. I thought I’d get most of this out of the way in an evening. Yeh, right. Several tiny units, each made up of several tinier pieces, manipulated by not-so-tiny hands. The sheet on the floor certainly did its job. However, the front end eventually looks like this :

Front nearly finished.jpg
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And here’s what caused the heartache…………

Smokebox Door (6 parts)

Using a borrowed lathe, the door was finally parted leaving a small pip for location purposes. It was soldered into place just as quickly, then on to the hinges. The idea was to cut thin strips from shim brass, solder 2 parallel lengths to .4mm NS wire, roll them around the wire (just as I did with the tank fillers), then a wee bit solder again. Simple, but it took a few go’s to get right.

Short lengths of tube from 21 gauge hypodermic needle were then added to the outer ends of the wire which was trimmed to length, and all was soldered to the door. Except, that took a good few more goes and it looked a mess – had to be left overnight just to make sure I wasn’t being over-critical, and if it was a mess think on how I might sort it. Next day the soldering iron came out and the mess came off – so not a lot to show for the previous evenings efforts! Everything was repeated again, from new apart from the short lengths of needle, and this time around it was successfully soldered into place, but not without a lot more effort and F words.

Door Dart (6 parts)

Caley darts are distinctive – an outer wheel and an inner lever. Available castings can be a hit or a miss. Unfortunately, the ones in my unstarted kits cupboard were misses and I can’t find anything refined available (Steve Duckworth is having the same issue currently), so on to another scratch-built item that was not envisaged :

Smokebox dart.jpg
A really cruel enlargement – everything does look better with less magnification! And, yes, there are 7 parts in the image, not 6.
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The wheel was measured from the GA. No suitably sized rods to wind the wire round, so .4mm brass wire was wound around round-nosed pliers several times, cut, and the nearest ring to the correct size fettled. Next, a .4mm hole was drilled in a thin strip of 10 thou NS, reduced by filing to form a cross around said hole, filed to length on 3 sides before parting, then final filing. With .4mm wire passed through the cross, it was soldered to the ring.

The inner handle was a tad easier. A length of .4mm brass wire was bent around a drill to form an eye, the brass flattened in pliers, and fettled to form a uniform eye. A spacer, to go between the wheel and handle, was made in the same way. The inner plate adjoining the boiler was a piece of 22 thou NS sheet cut roughly to shape, drilled and soldered to .4mm wire, put in the Dremel and filed to shape.

Everything was then soldered together with the wheel sitting on a slab of lead so that it didn’t disintegrate. I’d like to say that everything went swimmingly first time round, or second, or third – trouble is that it didn’t and I lost count. It will be glued in place – no more risk of heat nearby.

Steam Chest Cover (6 parts)

The sides of the cover are an upward extension of the chassis and in model form appear only as a tiny curvy triangle (curvy triangle?). Trying to shape them in isolation would be a nightmare so I elected to have the two sides attached to a cross piece which would fold up into a wide U shape, then fettle the S curves with the cover soldered in place. Attempting to fold up 22 thou NS proved a big no-no, so 10 thou was used and extra pieces soldered on to the inside of the wings to make up the width of the chassis.

The cover plate was made from 8 thou NS sheet curved to an S then tack soldered into place when in situ on the model before final soldering. The sides were then ground/filed to shape following the curve of the cover. The unit was then soldered into place on the model. Needless to say, none of these manoeuvres went right first time. Fettled lacemaker pins were added to represent the 2 handles.

Next morning I compared my efforts to a photo - boy did I get that chest cover wrong – it’s far too upright! What’smore I fashioned it on a 104 casting and I now notice that the 782 cover was squatter. Why didn’t the Caley go for uniformity when the boiler and cylinders were common units on a number of locos? Shed a tear, then whip it off and start the whole thing afresh. For second attempt, re-read much of the above but it did go quicker with some lessons learnt first time round.

Angle Bracket

This hardly needs individual mention since the 2 lengths measure less than 8mm. The Caley attached the smokebox front to the footplate by an angle bracket but no kits bother about representing it, and without it the 2 items would rather flap about in isolation. Mr Duckworth has also cottoned on to this as well – damn, I thought I was the only anal in the village.

Lamp Iron

Even the lamp iron wasn’t straightforward but a T shape with the cross of the T at a right angle attaching the iron to the smokebox top.


The 2 lubricators on the smokebox front were the only castings being used but, ironically, I had bother with them, so more pondering and I’ll return to them later. So that’s the front end (nearly). Moving backwards now looks like this :

Blower etc.jpg
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Blower Valve Control (4 parts)

OK, this really is anal. Did it on a 439 based on a very aged DJH casting just for the hell of it, but it had to be done again this time around.

Handrails (7 parts excl. knobs)

If you rewind in this thread you’ll see that the front handrail was fitted loosely in an image or two. However, I couldn’t get a nice representation of the shape at the smokebox until I realised that I’d fitted the knobs too high. The 2 knobs on the smokebox wrapper were refitted lower without problem but the location holes in the tank fronts were another matter angling a small drill, well out of the chuck, into the corner without breaking it. This handrail ended in a bracket on the front of each tank, and these were fashioned out of small pieces of fret waste and tiny lengths of hypo-needles (23 gauge this time). Thankfully, the handrails atop the tanks were straightforward but are only tacked once presently just in case.

Well, that’s virtually all of the body done. The cab roof has just been started, but I've still not got an image of the upper tank cladding in Caley days so it will have to wait. Nothing else for it but to turn attention back to the chassis and actually get this thing mobile.


Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:47 pm

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby essdee » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:12 pm


Beautiful handiwork, Sir! What a stunning front-end, with the lovely handrail curve and that crafted door wheel; I have noted and will follow your trail assiduously.....

More awaited eagerly,


Steve (in amongst TendeRiser and pickups, to get the first 812 moving soon)

David Knight
Posts: 664
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby David Knight » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:54 pm

The b***** bar keeps getting higher :roll: . I'm not sure if I should thank you or curse you Lindsay but praise seems most appropriate at this time so Well Done!



Natalie Graham

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton - Finishing the detailing part 2

Postby Natalie Graham » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:19 pm

Lindsay G wrote:
Caley darts are distinctive – an outer wheel and an inner lever.

Not as distinctive as the LNWR 5-spoke ones. Now they are fun to make :roll: especially in 2mm scale. You have done a lovely job on the Caley one though as with the whole loco. Good to see someone scratch-building Scottish locos,

Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Lindsay G » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:43 am

Natalie Graham wrote

Not as distinctive as the LNWR 5-spoke ones. Now they are fun to make especially in 2mm scale

If the Caley hadn't kept their costs down, by only having 4 spokes, I might have been able to use the 5 spoke LNWR dart available from Markits - looks a very nice turning in their on-line catalogue. However, it is 4mm - 2mm might just be pushing it, especially if it's functional.


Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

A Class 782 for Barnton - Interim Drivel

Postby Lindsay G » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:06 am

I really must get out of holiday mode and back into modelling. Perhaps, this interim update will provide the impetus.

Since the last update, I branched out over several different threads. I pondered over weighting of the loco and placement of DCC bits n’ bobs to which I received several helpful replies - more on these aspects later. I also deliberated over a sick Unimat which now seems to have been coaxed back into life and, with the milling gubbins attached, will be used immediately I get going for drilling holes for crankpins in the wheels for both the 782 and a 104.

Exhibiting Burntisland 1883 at Model Rail Scotland including preparatory sessions was another diversion but I couldn’t spend the whole weekend at the show as a holiday also intruded. However, said holiday did have the welcomed intrusion of swapping model trains for toy trains in the shape of the Unesco-listed Kalka-Shimla Railway. Sadly, steam seems to be reduced to one engine which goes out only occasionally (but is available for charter if anyone is so inclined) :

KS 520.jpg
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On the other hand, there were plenty of diesels working and sitting in the sheds at both Kalka and Shimla, where thankfully no H&S nonsense got in the way of having a damn good wander around all facilities. Also working hard were a couple of diesel railcars, the driver of one being pictured ensuring a trouble free 1400m (or 1900m) descent (depends on what you read) to Kalka at gradients up to 1:25 :

Safe journey.jpg
Oops, not the best composed shot ever!
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Back to the 782 & weighting & DCC

Much thought was given to weighting of the loco and placement of DCC components before all the intrusions took place. This actually involved some rework to both the chassis and body in order to better accommodate DCC items (spacers and body fixing screws moved and reduced to one plus a Rice-type thingy at the front end; bunker floor cut away; etc).

The possibility of too much weight became rather academic as I’d underestimated just how much lead-destined space would be lost to some DCC components. However, its weight is up to 250 grams so far and there is more space available in several locations including fore and aft in the boiler and bunker which I’ll re-address once everything is added and the centre of gravity can be assessed properly.

As to DCC trickery, in addition to the decoder which now sits above and slightly ahead of the motor and slips within part of the boiler void, a Zimo sugar cube speaker has been accommodated at the foot of the bunker, a stay alive capacitor in the firebox void, spaces left for coil-operated AJ couplings (still to properly play about with commercial and hand-made coils). There’s also accommodation for cab side lights, illuminated fire grate, and simulating emptying of the ashpan, but getting the engine running on DC then DCC is the priority and in time some of the other toys might happen – at least everything is catered for (I think). I’ll not be going anywhere near an expensive sound decoder just yet – if this DCC rookie is going to fry a decoder it will be an entry level one!

Enough of this, the changes have been made and we can now move forward with the Unimat to hand so next instalment should cover wheels, brakes, and perhaps an engine moving under its own power. Fingers crossed.


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