A Class 782 for Barnton

Lindsay G
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Lindsay G » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:18 am

Is scratch-building a loco all that difficult or time-consuming?

With the darker nights upon us, activity has turned to getting an engine or two operational to run on the part-built layout that one day will hopefully represent Barnton (CR, Edinburgh, 1910).

Two passenger tanks are almost complete but poor/non-runners to date. Why? Because I haven’t been precise enough on the chassis – but these amateur days are over (hopefully). One Avonside chassis jig and one High Level CSB jig later and we have one fully sprung chassis and it appears to be free running. However, the wheels have been off and on so often (yes, I know) that I think a new set are in order (the existing ones will be bushed for another tank but that will wait for another day). So, new wheels are ordered as well as a GW wheel fitting/quartering jig plus one of his wheel puller (which off course I may not need if I get everything correct first time from now on!). No further work will be done on these 2 chassis until the tools are to hand.

So, how to keep myself busy in the meantime? Barnton needs a goods engine or three and a Class 782 0-6-0 tank would seem appropriate :

Image used with permission of Jim MacIntosh from his Caledonian Railway Livery book
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Problem is that the only kit available is an ex-Wills whitemetal offering from SE Finecast. One of my passenger tanks, a Class 439, was another whitemetal kit from DJH which I swear took longer to correct and improve to current standards than a scratch-built engine would have taken to build. Let’s put that to the test – let’s get stuck into my first go at scratch-building an engine.

A drawing of the engine was obtained previously from the Caledonian Railway Association (CRA) and this was the starting point along with a number of photos. I don’t have any images of a specific Dalry Road-based engine but do have a Dalry engine number which was one of the early 782’s (with double steps to the front, straight bunker rails and step on the cab side – later 782’s differed in these three aspects). Also to hand is a Caley Coaches kit of a Class 104 kit which is the same in a number of areas so I’ll scribe around relevant etch parts to save some marking out (is that cheating?). I now realise that there are a few discrepancies with this kit (too late for the first engine already built!) so will be double checking all aspects of the etch and drawing.

Having poured over everything, ordered milled chassis sides (to save a wee bit of time – cheating again?), I’m finally getting round to cutting metal. The footplate, valances, and buffers are virtually the same as the Class 104 – just a few millimetres shorter and accommodating 6 rather than 4 driving wheels. So, I decided to copy the method used on the Class 104 etch with the buffers, valances, and front splashers being cut and folded up from a single piece with the footplate then an overlay on top of that. Without the etch to hand, I’d never have spent the time working everything out and would have cut each piece out separately which would have been more of a fiddle to put together (especially the splashers). By the end of day one we have the start of a 782 :

782 footplate.jpg
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A nagging worry is that the chassis sides won’t fit neatly into the body and that I should have awaited their arrival, but that worry will keep until their arrival another day. Next up will be the main body parts atop the footplate.


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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Mark Tatlow » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:08 pm


One recommendation I would give you is to arrange it that the hornblocks will slide out of the hornguides. This means that the wheels, axles etc can be dropped in an out without the need to detach them from the axles. Few wheels survive being taken on/off more than once or perhaps twice.

Most hornblock's do this but we tend to then trap them with the cosmetic springs etc so what really needs to be change is that these be constructed so that are detachable.
Mark Tatlow

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Andy W
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Andy W » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:31 pm

Looks good Lindsay.

The GW wheel fitting/quartering jig is brilliant. It's saved me hours of twisting wheels on axles.

Remember the csbs will retain the hornblocks and axles until withdrawn.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

Lindsay G
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Class 782 for Barnton - body parts

Postby Lindsay G » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:06 pm

Buoyed with how relatively easy the footplate area was fabricated, the cab was attacked next. Unfortunately, no 104 parts to trace around here, it’s all having to be marked out from scratch. The cab sides were fun as there were 6 curved areas to mark out and cut. The area around the cab window just didn’t look right until I realised that the prototype has no less than 3 different radii – the top 2 corners are the same but the bottom 2 are both different. Two pieces of brass were soldered together and then I got stuck into cutting them and breaking a few piercing saw blades. When separated the sides were quite fragile as there is only a small amount of material across the roofline. The cab floors in these engines are raised above the footplate so a piece of fret was soldered across the bottom to represent the upstand and this makes the sides more solid.

cab sides.jpg
The largish hole top front on the left side will be explained in due course – intriguing, huh?
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The CRA drawing for this engine only has a side elevation. On the assumption that the widths of the side tanks and cab would be the same, a drawing of a Class 439 was used to size the front and back of the cab and the tender rear. Everything was then cut out including apertures for the front and rear cab windows. Everything is going swimmingly.

I started to mark out the boiler (which I’ll get rolled by a fellow East of Scotland member) to ensure the cab and boiler fitted well onto the footplate. However, I noticed at this stage that the boiler fittings were positioned differently on 3 drawing for the 104, 439 and 792 classes although they all had the same size of boiler. Were they all different or are the drawings suspect? A request for information was made to the CRA Forum (here it is) which didn’t get many responses but resulted in obtaining copy GA’s for the 792 and 104. Ha, something a bit better to work from! And so much lovely detail to boot…well worth drooling over.

End of elation. Double checking everything done to date from the GA, I realise that all of the cross pieces are too narrow - one of the drawbacks of working from a relatively small drawing or one that is drawn wrongly (I haven’t bothered checking). The cab and bunker bits were just over 1mm short and the tank crosspiece nearly 2mm short. So start again, and here’s the proof :

Slimline v full fat.jpg
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In previous builds of kits, I’ve found getting the boiler positioned at the correct height at the cab end trial and error, so I made the rear sides of the tanks as a single piece with a cut out which will position the boiler correctly (and a lot less of a fiddle than fitting 2 small individual pieces). Wire through drilled holes will line this up with the cab front.

The bunker rear has a sharp curve at the top edge which is difficult to fabricate in a piece cut to size, so the curve was made first and then the top and bottom edges cut to length thereafter.

The side tanks have a nice curve at the top edge as well – oh joy! – does this engine have any angled joins? Several lines were marked on the inside with a scrawker, rolled around an appropriate diameter of brass rod to start the curve and then the curved edges of a scriber used as a doll to complete the curve - panel beating in miniature. Some of the scored lines showed through so the inside was liberally coated with solder in case there were any areas of weakness and then the outer curve rubbed with wet and dry. All this takes me back to playing with old cars in the garage. The top inner edge of the tanks has yet to be curved upwards to flow nicely into the boiler but that will wait until the boiler is in situ.

The front of the smokebox was then fashioned using the 104 etch as a template. I’m undecided whether to use a casting for the smokebox door or whether to fashion one myself so have not yet cut out an aperture for a casting. This final piece completes the jigsaw of parts (barring tank fronts which will come slightly later). The full array of parts were then laid out so that I could admire the handywork over a well-earned bottle of real ale (or 2) :

body parts.jpg
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The chassis sides have yet to arrive and I don’t want to start soldering anything together until I have a bit of a test fit beforehand. I’ve also yet to have the boiler rolled. So the next activity in this very fluid project plan will be adding details to the individual pieces. Might sound strange but I think there is method in the madness.


Lindsay G
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Class 782 for Barnton– Cab Details & CSB Considerations

Postby Lindsay G » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:27 pm

The fluid project plan is about to change again so a mixed bag in this post.

i. Detailing

Just as I said in the last post, next activity was adding detail and indeed that has happened, as it's easier to do these things on the flat especially interior items. The cab and bunker cross-pieces have now had their detail added. It might not seem a lot but it took a good few hours :

cab details.jpg
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The bunker did not take long, sum total = 1 lamp iron. Coal rails will be added after assembly.

The front of the cab has 2 spectacles, but it did take some time to fabricate them for the front and back of the cab. An unexpected start had been made to the spectacles. The initial cross-pieces that turned out to be too narrow already had the apertures cut for the windows so waste not, they’ll do nicely as the inside edge of the spectacles. A piece of scrap brass was centre drilled, snipped roughly circular, secured on the Dremel cutting disc mandrel, loaded onto said Dremel, then filed down to the outer diameter of the spectacles. This was then soldered over an aperture on a wasted cross-piece, snipped as close as possible then filed to shape. Repeat x 3, and we have 4 spectacles. Well that was the plan, a couple weren’t soldered centrally so I had to start afresh.

The rear of the cab has its inside complete – namely a handbrake and coal door. Most handbrake housings on Caley engines of this period were square in section and this applied to the 782. The handbrake is 8 thou NS cut to size, “scrawked” three times, then folded into a square. The handle is a handrail knob filed right down (Dremel again) with 3mm wire run through it. I’ve no idea what the coal door was like on a 782 as it’s not shown on the GA. However, the class 439 was introduced within months and had the same size of cab, so I’ve copied the arrangement from 419 at Bo’ness, The coal door slides are just 1mm L section, not at all per the prototype but it gives the impression of the arrangement. Mmm, think I need to shave a bit of that coal door handle/lace pin – looks OK until magnified greatly by photography!

The rear spectacle guard rails in the Class 104 etch are 3mm wire bent to a U shape and fed through 14 holes in the etch, and that was how I did them on the DJH 439, but life is too short. This time they’re just wire soldered straight onto the spectacle and rounded off by wet and dry on a former finger nail board. End result is actually just as effective – if anything the latest bodge is the better.

At this point, the addition of detail will cease temporarily as the postman has delivered the chassis etches, wheels, universal couplings, and the 2 GW wheel jigs, and I’m soon to go and have a boiler rolled.

ii. Chassis - CSB considerations

Early signs are that the chassis etches do not look promising but I’ll do some more measuring before saying any more.

However, in preparation for marking out CSB location points, I’ve been ferreting out the various spreadsheets on the CLAG website and looking into how everything will be marked out. It turns out that there is a calculation for a 7’6”-8’9” wheel arrangement on the website which allows for 15.5mm between the first fulcrum on the frame and the front wheel. On the 782, I can only afford 12mm or under as the front spacer cum chassis/body securing point cum representation of the front of the cylinders is in the way. However, it will neatly become one blocking end for the spring beams.

Using the Alan Turner spreadsheet, I’ve come up with 2 possible spacings :

Inputs of 11.5, 15.5, 18.5 and 9.5 give percentage axle loadings of 33.71 - 32.48 - 33.81

Inputs of 12, 15.5, 19 and 10 give percentage axle loadings of 33.3 - 32.73 - 33.97

The first set balance out the outer wheels better and I think I’d prefer the extra .5mm to play with at the front.

Do these seem reasonable to the CSB gurus on the Forum? At this point I should thank CLAG and those on this Forum for providing the invaluable information for anyone wanting to go down the CSB route. This will be my third go but the first 2 were easier 4 wheel arrangements.

So many facets on the go, but I better also find time to buy the odd Xmas pressie or 2, or the family will not be impressed.


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Russ Elliott
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Russ Elliott » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:08 pm

Either of those plots are fine, Lindsay. I'll add them to the plot page - they look useful for shorter locos. I wouldn't worry about the finessing of the axle weights too much.

If I may, I'll have a pic for the CSB Gallery when yer ready!

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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby ScottW » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:57 pm

I'm impressed with your work rate Lindsay, you're certainly putting my efforts to shame.

If you need any ideas with regards to the chassis my workbench thread on Western Thunder may help http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/scottws-s-scale-workbench.1497/. It's not been updated for a few months but it does give an explanation on how I tackled a chassis for an NBR 4-4-0T.

Keep up the good work. :thumb


Lindsay G
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Lindsay G » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:49 pm

Hi Russ/Scott,

Russ, thanks for that confirmation, I'll get going with these dimensions. Photo will be forthcoming in due course.

Scott, if you didn't keep on gallivanting off to sunnier climes so often, you might keep up. However, speed in line with your quality of modelling and engineering would have the rest of us take up cross-stitch.



David Knight
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby David Knight » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:26 am


Your 782 is coming along much faster than my 812 and I had all the bits to begin with! Well done on your work, I look forward to seeing further progress.



Terry Bendall
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:23 am

Looking very nice Lindsay.

Lindsay G wrote:It might not seem a lot but it took a good few hours :

Tine details like this usually do, regardless of what they are for. But worth it in the end. :)

Lindsay G wrote:looks OK until magnified greatly by photography!

With some of the work on Elcot Road, we have found that small errors that are very difficult to see even with a magnifier, show up nicely when a digital picture is enlarged. Very useful for checking things.

Terry Bendall

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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby jasp » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:38 am

Mainly Trains do some exquisite spectacle guards - saves a huge amount of effort - for the next loco!
Will post a pic on return from Furry Boots City
Jim P

Lindsay G
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Lindsay G » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:35 am

jasp wrote:Mainly Trains do some exquisite spectacle guards - saves a huge amount of effort

Now he tells me!

Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

Class 782 for Barnton - Boiler & Chassis

Postby Lindsay G » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:03 pm

Another mixed bag update (with the odd diversion)


I’m afraid the milled chassis is being returned, which is a pity timewise. Once unpacked, the sides fitted sweet as a dream into my footplate assembly, great for length and height. However, overlaying it onto the scale drawing highlighted that the axle holes were positioned c1mm too low and the brake pivot holes 2mm too high. Neither insurmountable to rectify, but the front and rear guard irons were also 4mm too near one another (and too short in length) with a knock on effect on the outer dimensions of the chassis frame. So, work has commenced on marking out one side and cutting will begin soon. I know convention is to cut both, but hang convention. I’ll cut one, then (inevitably) fettle it, mark out and drill the CSB points (ta again to Russ for confirmation) and brake pivot points before soldering another bit of metal to it for the other side.

Boiler (and brakes)

Metal for the boiler was marked out, cut, and pilot holes drilled for the various fittings before heading across Edinburgh to have it rolled by fellow East of Scotland member Ian Terrell. These GW bending bars are a nice piece of kit and within a few minutes we had, not 1 but, 2 boilers for a 782 – one in brass, the other NS (just in case either objected to being manhandled in them rollers) plus the smokebox overlays :

782 boiler.jpg
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Lying beside them in the image are etches for the brake shoes from Ian’s NBR 4mm Developments range (shameless plug). With an uncanny though for modellers, that nice man Dugald Drummond took the same design from the NBR to the CR, so that’s one other item sorted for this engine and my DJH 439 as well.

There was no point travelling half way across Edinburgh to roll a solitary boiler (OK, 2), so armed with some additional metal, I also ended up with a boiler for the second Class 104 (the kit comes with an undersized tube for the boiler – at least both of mine did), a boiler for an aged Class 488(?) engine no. 1167 which is so ugly and quirkly that it just has to be modelled (it did work on the Balerno branch so probably reached Barnton as well), and roofs for a Caley brake van and an HR horsebox :

And yet more rolls.jpg
The sharp-eyed will notice that this plonker rolled the brake van roof with the etch part number to the outside!
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I also came away with a piece of test etch for the valance on Barnton station, a dome that might fit another Caley engine, a Xmas card. I left our Xmas card with Ian and rinsed my coffee cup, so that seems a bit of fair exchange for the afternoon, no?

Next up it’s the chassis sides and rods, but after that I’m not sure what as it’s all a bit too inclement to start spraying a number of wheels (back to batch production again).


Julian Roberts
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Julian Roberts » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:48 pm

What a coincidence! Last year I started work on a SE Finecast 782 for the West of Scotland 4mm Group's layout, 'Calderside'. The main task was to lengthen the boiler and footplate by 2mm ( a replacement bit of tube was used), and several very fiddly and time consuming improvements were needed for the smokebox and sandbox area. I made up the milled chassis from Alan Gibson but corrections were needed to get the ride height right. Old fashioned compensation does for me however.

If only this thread was going then! Anyway I've nearly completed mine though not up to your standard... Here it is...

Ah, I don't know how to attach a photo on this... It is so interesting to see which suppliers make suitable bits - though Jim Smellie at Caley Coaches sent me some brake etchings that look just the same as in your photo from NBR Developments. I used the Mainly Trains etches for the brake pull rods but have realised from another nice photo that unadorned 1mm strip is just the job for most of its length, so that is now duly in place.

I'm tempted by the idea of finding some etched footsteps though, even though I have spent some time fitting the cast ones from the kit. What source would you suggest? And still balance weights need to be found...

Julian Roberts

Lindsay G
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Lindsay G » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:07 am

Hi Julian,

Good to see more Caley locos being built (even thou' they may not run in a nice blue livery on Calderside, mmm, not that 782's ever did!). Your ride height was all down to the position of the axle holes on the milled chassis, mentioned in my last post. I'll be covering the chassis more in the very near future.

As to etched steps there's nothing on the market as standalone etches, but by another coincidence this very subject was covered in the CRA Forum recently, you can flick over to it here (and you can see some pics of another 782). Honestly, you can make them up in a few minutes. A piercing saw helps but you could do the lot with a file or two. I can easily pass you an image of the etch from which I copied mine so that you can use it as a template. Send me your email address via a Private Message and I'll arrange that.



Lindsay G
Posts: 167
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Class 782 for Barnton - Chassis Sides & Coupling Rods

Postby Lindsay G » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:54 pm

When this scratchbuild was first considered, chassis etches and universal coupling rods seemed to be a handy and quick way around 2 very fiddly facets of build. Oh, how wrong one man can be!!!

Chassis Sides

As we learnt previously, there were problems with the ordered item and it was returned. Nowt else for it but to start from scratch. Out came a sheet of 18 thou NS and marking out began. In places, I could use the 104 etch as a template but they were few and far between.

18 thou NS sheet doesn’t do much after a few runs with a scrawker and bending in a Hold ‘n Fold. It is virtually all down to cutting with a piercing saw - I’ve used that weapon more since the start of this scratchbuild than ever before – and I do think I’m starting to get the hang of it but still breaking a few blades. Lots of references made to the GA and then several holes drilled for brakes and fulcrums using all the calculations for the CSBs (thanks again Russ), resulting in this :

chassis sides - nearly done.jpg
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The first pass of anything being cut from sheet material is downright ugly and can be so off-putting. However, following lots of use of files and wet and dry on sticks and things, the resultant pieces are a joy to hold and look at. So anyone out there put off by initial efforts, don’t be – go for it!! Okay, they looks good (to this eye of the beholder at least) – but will they be the foundation of a good running engine. Hah, different proposition, time will tell.

Attention was then paid to coupling rods (see later) and with them finished out came the Avonside Chassis2 for only its second outing (but that will soon change). The hornblocks, High Level with CSB tabs are such a doddle used in conjunction with their CSB jig (usual no-connection nonsense) and were duly fitted followed by the fulcrum handrail knobs, et voila we have two chassis sides complete with suspension :

CSB's added.jpg
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The sharp eyed might spot that the upper profile of the chassis side has altered. I left a run of brass above the footplate behind the rear 2 wheels for strength (and possibly attaching bits to), but that would have meant cutting slots in the cab front and tank rear crosspiece to accommodate it so they have been altered for this to stop short in the tank area. One of the wires looks a bit kinky in the image but it’s only .3mm NS at this stage.

Apart from spacers at the front and rear of the chassis, I haven’t as yet worked out where all other spacers will be positioned, so that’s one of the next think to keep me out of trouble.

Coupling Rods

Isn’t there a place on the market for coupling rods hinged per the prototypes?

To my knowledge there is nothing available to suit this engine (and lots of other Caley engines), many of which saw service right through to BR days so they’re not an item restricted to a pre-grouping niche nor Caley alone. Never mind the scratchbuilder, none of the kits for Caley engines have decent scale and hinged coupling rods (ducks to avoid the crossfire).

Let’s consider the prototype. All the bosses are pretty prominent – nearly 3 times the depth of the rods. The outer bosses look very similar to those of many other companies and are catered for in some etches. I’m going to concentrate on the centre boss and hinged joint (which may be nothing unique to the Caley for all I know). It looks like this (not a 782 but of no matter) :

Rod close up.jpg
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First up, apologise for quality due to enlargement. Second up, to save anyone taxing their brain, the front of the engine is to the right - pretty obvious, especially with the brake shoe in shot, but I’m just a helpful guy at heart. At first glance, second and third, it wasn’t obvious what fits into what (unless you actually know what is going on!) but there is a joint somewhere behind the crankpin. From the GA drawing, it becomes clear that the front rod has the tongue that fits into the groove on the rear rod. Whilst most photos seem to suggest that the bosses of the 2 parts (including this one) are on the same plane, from the GA the front rod boss is around ½” deeper (a detail which I will ignore).

Okay, that’s how it looks and fits together, let’s see what’s available. Looking into my unbuilt kit boxes, it is an unhappy fact that there’s nothing there that really helps. I’d sent for an Alan Gibson universal etch and it was my intention to alter this from hinging on the centre axle to hinging at the correct location behind just as Will did on his thread. This method has the tongue on the rear rod which might be how some other companies hinged their rods, and I was well prepared to go down that route. Having seen how the prototype was set up it was a lot less work and I was still prepared to go with that compromise until I saw a partially built 812 from Steve Duckworth with groove on rear rod. The image either encouraged or embarrassed me into thinking again.

The AGW etch for the centre boss is not the correct profile for the Caley and what is there is only a half etch - not nearly deep enough. The outer boss overlays are good but too deep when added to the half etched rods. Since some work was going to have to be done in these respects, we might as well go the whole hog and hinge it correctly. Trying to use as much of the AGW to cut down effort, here’s the final collection of bits :

Rod bits.jpg
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The end boss overlays were not removed from the etch for this photo-shoot in case they took the opportunity to go walkabouts. Goodness, don’t my efforts look crude at this stage, but remember what I said about the emerging chassis? They’ll all be filed to shape when soldered to the AGW bits. The 2 half etched AGW components (on the left in the image) will be soldered together to bring these rods back to full thickness which together with the new back and boss overlays will be scale thickness for the bosses. The rods will be too thick but will have their top inner edge chamfered to give the illusion of scale thickness of the rods and presence of the rear of the bosses at either end.

That’s the theory, on to build. In order to ensure uniformity, I made up 2 jigs :

Rod jigs.jpg
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Perhaps a wee bit over the top for one set of rods, but I’ll be using the same jigs again for the same or similar sizes of rods for the next two engines (unless someone takes the hint about providing a decent hinged etch). In fact I could build over 10 different Caley engines from these 2 jigs.

The first (NS) jig was used to set out the second jig but also for drilling the hinge hole when the boss end has already been drilled in an existing etch. It’s marked out for 2 different lengths of rods (812’s and others are 3” longer front & back). The second jig is used when fettling the bits and then soldering them together. It’s just an offcut of MDF with 1mm and .45mm wires fitted as location points. The jigs only took a short while to manufacture and did result in the manufacture of the rods :

Rods together.jpg
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There’s still a lot of tidying up to do from this stage but, reassuringly, lengths of the 2 sizes of rod slipped easily through all holes so they seem to be of uniform length.

The only thing left to do now is tidy them up a bit and then secure the two ends together by a brass pin. This stage had me worried – if the two ends ended up soldered together I might just have cried! There’s no room for tissue paper in there, so I smeared Vaseline over the tongue end. Happily they both went together without hitch :

Completed rods.jpg
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One was a wee bit stiff but after a few swings to and fro it loosened up, Such swings can’t be too great or else the outer edges of the boss overlay would become splayed out. The much enlarged rods in the image show up that some work needs to be done to tidy them up to perfection. However, to the naked eye they look great and I’m well pleased with the result. At least next time round, production of such rods will not take nearly as long now that I’ve figured it all out – unless of course another etch hits the market (now, is anyone out there taking the hint yet?).

The chassis sides and rods were a lot more effort than envisaged, taking up possibly more time than the rest of the build to date. However, I’ve now got a good collection of bits and can maybe start to make something look 3D.

Last edited by Lindsay G on Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Mark Tatlow » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:17 pm

Nice work; I have made a number of articulated coupling rods in a similar manner and they work fine.

Are you making a problem for yourself in not making the coupling rods first and then using them to set up the hornblocks (and also to have the frames assembled prior to the mounting of hornblocks)? Its how I would do it anyway!

You are cracking on; all power to your elbow.
Mark Tatlow

Lindsay G
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Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Lindsay G » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:19 am

Hi Mark,

Whilst not being one that always follow convention I did on this occasion and used the coupling rod(s) as the datum. The chassis sides were fettled before moving on to the coupling rods, then back to the chassis to add all the serious gubbins.

I'm using the Avonside Chassis2 and the convention with it is to add the hornblocks (and fixed bearings if used) to one side then the other, and then replace short pins with longer ones (that go through both hornblocks) to solder the 2 sides together. The DVDs that come with the jig are available on Youtube (search on Avonside Chassis). 'Tis an arrangement that I like using so far, with 100% success to date, after 0% with primitive means.

Having said that, there is another feature of the jig that I'm not so sure about, but that will be a diversion off-thread, so I'll start another thread sometime.


User avatar
Will L
Posts: 1804
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Will L » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:30 am

Mark Tatlow wrote:..and also to have the frames assembled prior to the mounting of hornblocks..

I'd agree with Lindsey, if you've got the Avonside jig, assembling the horn blocks on the chassis sides first before assembling the frames is the way to go.


Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby DougN » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:34 am

Have to agree with Will, and Lindsay. The chassis jig makes getting all the bits on the inside of the chassis very very very easy. the only thing to remember is to turn the chassis sides around so you get mirrors! I can see at some time I will forget :shock: I am still waiting on the wheels to really see what is going to happen with my D17 at that point I will see if the jig has made every thing work nicely.

Any how only 2 more days of work... then holidays.... :D
Still not doing enough modelling

Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

Class 782 for Barnton - Chassis build

Postby Lindsay G » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:09 pm

Having two sides complete with suspension, there’s nothing else for it but to erect the flat pack. The only other item added before that was the firebox bottom (the riveting of which I covered in a riveting jig thread). For spacers, an AGW spacer was chosen for the rear and another for the centre. A third spacer was fashioned for the front using the 104 kit item as a template - this also represents the front of the cylinders and will neatly keep one end of the springy beams in place.

The Chassis2 had been cleaned but the positions of the pins had not been altered, and it now comes into service again. Two spacers were soldered to one side, then one spacer to the other side before bringing the 2 sides together and soldering everything into place. That’s the Chassis2done its bit for another chassis and ready to be cleaned and packed away until the next engine. It’s all pretty short and sweet, but my time to put things together are nothing like as short and sweet as those in the tutorial DVD – can anyone really put a chassis together that quickly?

Before deciding upon the position of other spacers, I bent up and assembled the gearbox – a High Level Roadrunner+ and D1 Drivestretcher which will drive the rear axle. This was fitted into place and after some thought a fourth L-spacer was added just rear of the gearbox to add more rigidity and the upturn will be the location point for the torque reaction link. There will be more spacers added in time (I do like the idea of a rigid chassis body) probably for the pick-up mount(s) and decoder chip but for the meantime that’s the chassis done, and it looks like this:

chassis together.jpg
chassis together.jpg (72.5 KiB) Viewed 9131 times

The other detailing bits and bobs will be added after build of the basic body and trial running. I’m awaiting the arrival of a couple of decoders before deciding on the location in this loco but it will possibly be mounted above or beneath the motor with that other part of the chassis above the footplate removed to accommodate it. Would anyone think either/both of these is/are bad options?

The 2 parts making up the footplate, valances, and buffer beams assembly (first parts made at the very start of this thread) were tried for fit over the chassis. Hey!!... they fit together perfectly, which warrants opening a bottle of red, whilst I gaze upon lots of small bits of metal that are starting to resemble an engine :

chassis n footplate.jpg
chassis n footplate.jpg (74.95 KiB) Viewed 9131 times

The only slight area of fettling needed is the curve behind the front sandbox which just shows marginally – no problem in removing excess, having to reinstate a shortfall is careless. The area of metal between the rear 2 wheels aft of the gearbox may not serve any useful purpose (it will disappear beneath a raised cab floor), but I’ll leave it meantime just in case. Before soldering these two parts together, more marking out took place for the handles either side of the cab door and above the front steps plus holes for securing everything to the chassis fore and aft.

With the front sandboxes folder up and soldered already, I can’t solder up these parts on a sheet of glass to ensure they’re put together true, so I’ll resorted to MDF again with a hole cut to accommodate the splashers. That may be that until after Christmas, certainly as far as updates go, so I hope Santa is kind to one and all out there.


Julian Roberts
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:33 pm

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Julian Roberts » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:22 am

Looks and sounds delicious. How satisfying. The area of metal on chassis that you wonder whether is superfluous I used to mount copperclad for top wiper pickups, my Gibson chassis having a similar outline at that point. But I imagine you have planned already for them...?!

Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

A Class 782 for Barnton - Footplate & Boiler Assemblies

Postby Lindsay G » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:15 pm

With guests gone after Xmas, the Modelling Room has been reinstated having been used temporarily as a Dining Room of all things. Alas, not a lot of time has been found to model. However, things have progressed somewhat. The 2 parts of the footplate assembly have been soldered together, which was then mated with the chassis and 10ba nuts soldered into place. Drummond buffers, drawhook plates, and drawhooks were then added giving our basis body assembly to which everything can now be added. The drawhooks look a bit on the small side (image later) and will probably be replaced but I’ll leave them meantime as I ponder over them.

Boiler Assembly

In a spare moment a few days ago the boiler was soldered together, a strip of fret added to strengthen the joint, and then the first smokebox wrapper was added. Sweating these bits together is not my favourite task as I don’t seem to be great at getting it all soldered together well, and misalignment of parts going around the cylindrical boiler can be a pain. The second smokebox wrapper then needed to be added. As things are getting thicker, more heat was needed to sweat everything into place. In order to keep the second wrapper correctly located and to ensure the existing assembly didn’t start coming apart with the heat, I twisted some garden wire around the second overlay in a most undignified way to the parts involved before applying flux and then plenty heat from the inside :

Xmas wrapping.jpg
Xmas wrapping.jpg (86.68 KiB) Viewed 8964 times

The ends of the second overlay were then curved back outwards to form the bottom of the smokebox – all trial and error stuff until it looked right and lay neatly behind the sandboxes. A rear plate was fashioned for the smokebox and soldered into place, followed by the smokebox front plate. I’ve decided to make up a smokebox door from scratch so a centre hole was drilled that will locate the door and the dart in due course. The rear crosspiece/tank rear sections was then soldered into place, the alignment of the bottom edges of this and the smokebox front being judged by eye, then checked on a sheet of glass :

boiler assembly.jpg
boiler assembly.jpg (70.92 KiB) Viewed 8964 times

This was then test fitted to the footplate assembly and the height of the boiler at the front and rear checked – as it’s only a matter of a few hundredths of a mil. out, I’ll settle for that!! The shape of an engine is definitely starting to emerge. With that accomplished, but not enough time left to start hacking out a major part of the boiler to accommodate the motor, I decided to further advance the tank sides by creating the upward curve where they meet the boiler. I should have left more excess metal to make this job easier and as a result it took a few bends, then straightenings, then more bending to get these curves about right. Initially a tank side plus a round bar were gripped in a vice and then the side turned around the bar. This was then followed by rubbing the curve (with the wrong end of tin snips this time!) until it looked better and then the top side of the tank was smoothed flat – more panel-beating in miniature! The first test fit looks like this :

tanks first fit.jpg
tanks first fit.jpg (76.01 KiB) Viewed 8964 times

Yup, still a bit more snipping and then feathering off the edges that meet the boiler before they’re done, but the basic shape is definitely there.

Not bad for less than one month’s activity but that’s it for this year, and the second part of the festivities will be a bit more intense than last week’s strictly religious event (OK, wee white lie). The workbench will have to be tidied up for the Bells - if it’s not tidy then, it won’t be for the rest of the year – or so local tradition has me believing. Then, I’ll have to sacrifice a lump of coal, that would have filled a plethora of tenders and minerals, as a first-foot offering for good luck (some, well south of the border, may see this as strange goings-on.....can’t think why).

Anyway, have a great New Year one and all,


Terry Bendall
Posts: 1743
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: A Class 782 for Barnton

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:39 am

Lindsay G wrote:I twisted some garden wire around the second overlay in a most undignified way to the parts involved before applying flux and then plenty heat from the inside :

Using wire to secure parts is a technique commonly used in silversmithing to hold parts together when silver soldering. For this of course the temperature is much higher, between 690 degrees C and 825 degrees C depending on the grade of solder used. Using soft iron wire (probably available from a florist's shop) would be better since garden wire will probably be galvanised.

Lindsay G wrote:all trial and error stuff until it looked right

The Mike Sharman principle :D

This is all looking very nice Lindsay.

Terry Bendall

Lindsay G
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am

A Class 782 for Barnton - boiler, tanks & Cab

Postby Lindsay G » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:56 pm

First footing done, first golf competition of the year completed, now it’s back to completing this first scratchbuilt.

Boiler & Tanks fitted

The first activity in the New Year was to get the Dremel and cutting disc into action to cut out part of the boiler to accommodate the motor. A thin disc was used which is pretty fragile. No safety glasses employed but it was all conducted under the magnifying lamp, and completed without shattering the disc – another first! After ensuring that everything would fit together, the boiler assembly was soldered into place :

cut and tanks.jpg
cut and tanks.jpg (72.32 KiB) Viewed 8801 times

The tank sides were then attacked. More mini-panel beating was carried out on the inner curves before they were snipped back and filed to fit. Holes were then drilled for the handrail knobs. The front panels were then fashioned using the rear panel as a template, and soldered into place. Holes needed to be drilled in the front panels for the handrail so handrail knobs were fitted to the smokebox sides, the panels marked and the holes drilled - no maths involved in the position of the holes, just judged by eye. One was spot on, the other a bit low and a bit too far in. The errant hole was plugged with a piece of .4mm wire soldered into place, then redrilled (same action applied twice on the tank sides as well, if truth be told). Happy that the holes were now OK, the tank sides were soldered into place. Before doing so, the grab handles above the front step (when they’re fitted) were fashioned and fitted :

tanks added.jpg
tanks added.jpg (69.74 KiB) Viewed 8801 times

Cab assembly

So, on to the rear of the loco. All the cab sections, some of the first items fashioned last month, were soldered up with the raised floor fitted to ensure everything was soldered square. Before fitting, the floor was scribed to represent the wooden planks. Everything went together surprisingly quickly, and to complete the interior of the cab (other than the backhead, that will come later), the tool boxes were added:

cab assembly.jpg
cab assembly.jpg (72.74 KiB) Viewed 8801 times

Before fitting this, most of the cab side details are going to be tackled, namely the beading and lamps, but that’s for another day. For the meantime, the cab is laid in place :

Nearly there.jpg
Nearly there.jpg (87.67 KiB) Viewed 8801 times

Since there seemed little space between the smokerbox rear and tanks, I thought I'd get away without adding any detail below the boiler. However, despite the small gap, a rather bare front axle and unprototypical springy beam are quite visible so something representative of connecting rods will have to be added - that wasn't on the original agenda. Oh, well.


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