Clun Castle query

[Bigfish]

For reasons that I cannot begin to understand, the husband of the heroine of the Lady Wife's (nearly finished) first novel does a bit of railway modelling, besides being an all-action sort of a chap. Clearly as a Midland man I can't be the inspiration, as he has been a Great Western man from boyhood. In the opening scene he first sets eyes on our heroine at Paddington Station as she alights from the Birmingham train headed up by Clun Castle, in June 1964. Acting in my capacity as totally unpaid researcher, I think I've established that the June 1964 bit is OK. However I can't provide the answer to the question "What colour was the engine and what was the name of the shade?". I bet one of you chaps can though. First correct answer gets to play with my Bigger-than-Pete-Waterman's layout once the film rights are sold.....

Alan

[Mike Spence]

Brunswick Green I believe............

[Bigfish]

Mike, many thanks indeed, and you (provisionally) get your name in lights when the credits roll. I say "provisionally" just in case this thread provokes the usual lengthy debate.....
Alan

[Russ Elliott]

I think Castles on up Birmingham trains would have been very rare by mid-1964. The line was monopolised by Class 47s and 52s by then.

[MarkS]

Clearly, judging by this photo, the colour is "shades of grey"...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2782/4234 ... 6f68_z.jpg
"7029 'Clun Castle'. Swindon shed. 26 April 1964"

Edit: added info about the photo

[Bigfish]

Russ, she says Class 47s are insufficiently romantic, but thanks you for the information, and MarkS, she doesn't believe railway modellers will understand your joke. Lovely picture though.

BTW this from Wikepedia (my italics):"Its first shed allocation was Newton Abbot, and had a double chimney and a 4 row superheater fitted in October 1959. Its most famous moment came on 9 May 1964 on the Plymouth to Bristol leg of a special train to mark the record set sixty years earlier by "City of Truro" when it was timed at 96 mph on the descent of Wellington Bank in Somerset. Its last shed allocation was Gloucester in May 1965. It hauled the last official steam train out of Paddington (to Banbury) on 11 June 1965. It was officially withdrawn (and believed to be the last operating Castle) in December 1965.

Cheers
Alan

[newport_rod]

Mid-chrome green?

[Bigfish]

See, I knew this would happen!
Alan

[Alan Turner]

I think Castles on up Birmingham trains would have been very rare by mid-1964. The line was monopolised by Class 47s and 52s by then.

And don't forget the Blue Pullman

Alan

[David B]

From Great Western Way, HMRS, 2009:

Referring to the green (in the BR era), the book states:
the general express passenger locomotive livery was the old GWR middle chrome green together with the black and orange lining style. The colour was called 'Brunswick Green' but to all intents it was the same as the GWR colour.

The book goes on to refer specifically to the Castle and Star classes:
Brunswick Green lined with black and chrome orange as from earlier period except cylinder covers were black lined with orange. Footplate valances were unlined green and splasher tops were usually black although occasionally some splasher tops seem to have been painted green. The rest was as per pre-nationalisation scheme.

The blue livery was adopted in 1949 (after experimenting) for top link express classes and the King class were repainted in the lighter shade (similar to Caledonian Blue) from June 1949.
It would seem that Castles were never painted blue or black. BR set a standard (in 1948) that the most powerful express locos would be blue, other passenger classes green and mixed traffic locos black - the colour of ripe blackberries!

If anyone disagrees, please take it up with the HMRS, not me.

David

[Steve4RoseGrove]

Russ, she says Class 47s are insufficiently romantic, but thanks you for the information, and MarkS, she doesn't believe railway modellers will understand your joke. Lovely picture though.


Cheers
Alan

She's got the book then?

Cheers,
Steve

[Paul Willis]

Russ, she says Class 47s are insufficiently romantic, but thanks you for the information, and MarkS, she doesn't believe railway modellers will understand your joke. Lovely picture though.


Cheers
Alan

She's got the book then?

Cheers,
Steve

There's a rather attractive girl (mid-twenties) that catches the same train as me into Liverpool Street each morning. She's currently reading that on the journey in.

Regardless of who else she may meet on the 07.36, I have been wondering how on earth she concentrates at work for the rest of the day...

Flymo

[Bigfish]

Thank you for your outstandingly interesting and (davidb especially) detailed replies. I have a distinct feeling this is about to head "off topic".....

Alan

[John Fitton]

Steve

There's a rather attractive girl (mid-twenties) that catches the same train as me into Liverpool Street each morning. She's currently reading that on the journey in.

Regardless of who else she may meet on the 07.36, I have been wondering how on earth she concentrates at work for the rest of the day...

Flymo

Ok, my interest has been piqued! What book are we talking about here?!!

[grovenor-2685]

What book are we talking about here?!!

At least one missed the joke .
Keith

[Wizard of the Moor]

Steve

There's a rather attractive girl (mid-twenties) that catches the same train as me into Liverpool Street each morning. She's currently reading that on the journey in.

Regardless of who else she may meet on the 07.36, I have been wondering how on earth she concentrates at work for the rest of the day...

Flymo[/quote]


Ok, my interest has been piqued! What book are we talking about here?!![/quote]

[grovenor-2685]

Go back here, guys.

Clearly, judging by this photo, the colour is "shades of grey"...

Keith

[David B]

Hint??

50.jpg

[MarkS]

and MarkS, she doesn't believe railway modellers will understand your joke.

...that would appear to be the case...

[jim s-w]

Im waiting for the film actually!

[John Fitton]

Oh, just got the joke, duh!!

[John Fitton]

Hint??

50.jpg

Ajax???

[martin goodall]

There seems to be a general consensus that "Middle Chrome Green" and "Brunswick Green" were one and the same colour. The latter name seems to have been adopted by BR so as to avoid upsetting those delicate flowers from the former LMS, LNER and SR, who might have had a fit of the vapours if they had thought that the official BR express passenger loco livery was going to be almost exactly the same as the fully-lined GWR engine livery. Giving it a different name enabled BR to pretend that this was a 'new' colour.

(For those of a pedantic disposition, there were subtle differences between GWR and BR painting practice, and lining details, but I don't propose to waste my time by trying to describe them.)

[Bigfish]

Well I've really enjoyed the gems which this thread has produced, and so has The Author, who sends her thanks. Thank you Martin for getting us back "on topic". It occurs to me that as a confirmed GW spotter from boyhood our hero would therefore undoubtedly use the term "Middle Chrome Green" rather than "Brunswick Green", since he'd likely regard the BR terminology with contempt. In the novel's epilogue he is I gather painting a model of Clun Castle when he is reunited with the heroine (I won't spoil the rest of the plot for you). I have refused to follow up The Author's query as to what it would have said on the label of the tin of Humbrol in 1967, in case it generates another 22 posts
Alan