Hornby T9

nberrington
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:15 pm

Hornby T9

Postby nberrington » Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:33 pm

Greetings all - has anyone had a chance to look at the T9 up close and personal. I hear a lot of problems regarding the tender.
I ordered both versions a while ago, and was wondering how easily one would convert them, or would it take a new chassis altogether?

Regards

Neil

User avatar
Re6/6
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:53 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Re6/6 » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:37 pm

I'll be waiting for Ultrascale to 'do the business' for this one. I have enquired on RMWeb, there is some info/discussion here: http://rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34638
...and some relevant stuff here: http://rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ry+of+a+T9
John

JohnDC
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:24 am

Re: Hornby T9

Postby JohnDC » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:14 am

Hi everyone, I'm not sure if I'm doing this correctly by staying in old a subject heading but with a new question.

I'm coming up to my first steam outline conversion to P4 with the T9 and there seems to be some issues, particularly with the clearances of the narrow cab version.
Initially though I've got what I think is a simpler question. What's the best way to remove the rather thin gear from the axle without damaging it, and then replacing it onto the Ultrascale axle.
Has anyone successfully converted the T9 who can advise please?
Thanks
John

Philip Hall
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:53 pm

I'm in the midst of a T9 or two, so still working my way through, but on your two points I can hopefully give answers.

First, clearances. If you're careful, it's not too bad a job to widen the splashers on the narrow cab version. A friend has done this first one by gently scraping away with a scalpel blade and has left me with bags of room for P4 wheelsets. Just take it carefully and remember to keep looking at the front face of the splasher for signs you might be breaking through.

The gearwheel is no different to any other Hornby gear, as far as I can tell, apart from the hole in the middle which is 2mm rather than the usual 3mm. Just punch the wheels off the axle and then gently punch the axle out of the gear, resting it on the vice jaws. The replacement axle is not, of course, splined, so will be a loose fit on the gear. So I usually abrade the axle in the appropriate place with a coarse file, clean axle and gear and slide the gear on (it will be a trifle tighter now) and then fix with some Loctite 601. Once set, I drill into the gearwheel at approx 45 degrees with a small drill - say 0.5mm - until you see some steel swarf coming up the flutes of the drill. Go a little bit further and then you have two options. One is to pull the drill out and Loctite in a new pin from brass wire, or (which sometimes happens anyway) just snap the drill off and drop some Loctite around what's left. Once all is set grind off the excess so the face of the gear is clean. You'll never get it off again, which you shouldn't need to, but I just don't trust Loctite on a smooth axle alone, especially with the engineering plastic the gear is made of. And of course, the axle in this case is 2mm, so there's even less for the glue to grip. When you've got one of these back together again after hauling it apart, you really don't want to be mucking about with a loose gear...

JohnDC
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:24 am

Re: Hornby T9

Postby JohnDC » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:44 am

Many thanks for this helpful advice Philip. I'll get back to it after the summer and try to complete the conversion.
Regards
John

User avatar
Russ Elliott
Posts: 930
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Russ Elliott » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:02 pm

Philip - if I am reading your post right, is the T9 supplied with 2mm driving axles?

JohnDC
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:24 am

Re: Hornby T9

Postby JohnDC » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:37 pm

Russ
perhaps I can answer this question for you (bearing mind I'm new to this). The T9 is as far as I know the first loco to have 2mm axles throughout and Ultrascale have produced a variation of the T9 driving wheels with 2mm axles especially for this conversion. The general design of the chassis seems different to others that I've seen, but I know not whether there will be more like this in the future.
John

Philip Hall
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:57 pm

Russ,

Just seen your post on return from holiday. Yes, the T9 has 2mm driving axles, which threw a few folk including our esteemed wheel manufacturers. The chassis was initially designed without traction tyres, I believe, and a smaller intermediate gear wheel was deemed necessary in order to get the motor as low down in the frame casting as possible and to get the motor right over the drivers. This apparently required a reduction in axle size. As the Hornby axle is splined, both at the ends and in the middle they obviously had no problems with axles slipping. Smooth axles are different, of course, and I shall be pinning my drivers as additional security. David Rogers was, I think, concerned with run out with a small axle and such a large wheel, but his trial mouldings proved all was well. I think the pronounced boss on the Drummond wheel helps. The Alan Gibson T9 wheel is just fine as well.

More of a problem with this beast is getting it to pull anything much now it hasn't got traction tyres. The loco runs beautifully, just like everything else from Hornby that I've had, and unless you are determined to tread the path of flexible chassis (of whatever persuasion) I see no need to throw it away and start afresh. That said, it will be necessary to add some weight in the smokebox (liquid lead through the chimney and don't glue it in with PVA) and rearrange the tender so as to hang some weight on the back of the footplate. So it's not a quickie, particularly if you elect to widen the frames as I have, but the end result will give you something akin to a Finney kit in a fraction of the time.

Philip

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Forum Team
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:32 am

Using lead sheet rather than plasticard to widen the frames helps a lot with the weight.
I haven't done this with the T9 but have done the Black 5 and Bachmann Jinty and don't see why it cannot be done with any 00 chassis
Regards
Keith
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

User avatar
Russ Elliott
Posts: 930
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Russ Elliott » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:26 pm

Thanks for that Philip. Does the Hornby chassis have hornblocks (as per the 08, say) or are the axles just resting up against 'the plastic'?

Concerning the haulage ability, I understand that some Hornby customers are distinctly unchuffed, owing to the bad adjustment of the bogie height setting on some production models. Even with rubber tyres, no one seems to be able to emulate Model Rail's reported twenty-two coach haulage. Some Hornby examples struggle with two or three. Possibly in P4, without the rubber grip, a screw adjustment for the bogie height setting might be the way of optimising the rigid chassis haulage. It's such a shame that Hornby's beautiful body has been let down by short-changing the design of the chassis.

Philip Hall
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:24 pm

Hi Russ,

The 08 had square hornblocks in slots, which is how Dave Booth came to be able to spring it. The T9 (and every other Hornby loco, come to that), has round brass bearings which locate in recesses in the chassis block. This, to me, is better engineering, and is what sets them apart mechanically from Bachmann, which just have slots in the mazak casting (at least, all the ones I've handled are like that). I can understand what you say about the chassis design from the point of view of haulage, but my view is that they made a decision to go with traction tyres in 00, and whatever the variations in performance, that was probably the best solution given the constraint of commercial manufacture. One thing to remember is that they can't use lead to weight the thing, as we would do. It wouldn' be realistic to expect a proprietary manufacturer to go to the extent of balancing the tender on the back of a loco as we are wont to do; it's just not cost effective for assembly on a production line. Most of us are going to be content with a T9 pulling four or five bogie vehicles, I think.

The one I'm doing right now is getting the 'works' ; frames packed out, bogie widened, weight up front and tender balanced on the drag beam, and I have hopes of reasonable tractive effort. The bogie, by the way, is supported by a spring, rather than the M7 arrangement where the back of the loco is supported firmly with no spring. This allows some of the weight of the loco to be borne at the bogie end, and in the case of the M7, some of the weight in the sidetanks is taken by the bogie. I shall be experimenting with the T9 to see if it rides better with the bogie sprung or rigidly supported, and whether it makes any difference to the haulage capacity.

It's almost as much fun as building an etched chassis!

Philip

Bruce Boldner

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Bruce Boldner » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:41 pm

I've been reading the many letters regarding conversion of the Hornby T9 with interest and also in the hope that someone may have an excellent and simple solution to the problem that I have discovered with this locomotive's performance after being rewheeled to P4.
Am I the only one whose converted loco waddles like a duck when in motion?
Through a friend in the EM Gauge Society, I obtained a set of 2mm axles, appropriate Alan Gibson P4 wheels plus some small brass insert washers which fit into the crankpin holes on the Hornby connecting rods, enabling them to be used with Alan Gibson crank pins.
All these went together OK, but I am dismayed by the amount of slop firstly between the driving axles and the Hornby axle bearings and secondly by the looseness of the bearings in their locating slots in the chassis block.
I have made sure that each driver sits exactly square on its axle, that each crankpin protrudes from it's driver at 90 degrees, that there is just enough slop from connecting rods to crankpins.
But all this is to no avail, as the combined axle to bearing plus bearing to chassis slop allows the outer ends of each driving axle to be pulled backwards and forwards by the connecting rods with each revolution. I have carefully epoxied the rear driving axle bearings to their slots in the chassis block and this has reduced the slop somewhat. But the slop between the axle within the bearings remains to an unacceptable degree. I am reluctant to epoxy the bearings of the front driving axle to the chassis, as this would prevent me changing the gear in the future for whatever reason.
I have been toying with the idea of going to 1/8" axles and carefully reaming out the Hornby bearings so as to ensure a snug fit, but this would necessitate the purchase of another set of wheels.
Has anyone else had this problem with a T9 or other Hornby conversion? I would be grateful if anyone could share an alternative solution.

Bruce Boldner

Philip Hall
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:09 pm

Bruce,

I've done a few of these now (three in EM, one in P4) and have a few observations which might help you. I've not had a problem with the bearings themselves being a loose fit in the chassis, but I have found that Alan Gibson axles (including bogie axles) can be as little as 1.93 - 1.94 mm rather that the nominal 2 mm, which will account for the slop with the bearings you've found. For some reason the blackened pin pointed axles that AG does are 1.98 - 1.99 mm; perhaps the blackening accounts for this.

A possible solution might be to make up some new axles from some silver steel stock, but the AG drivers I've had (the EM ones were all AG) are a VERY tight fit on the axles as supplied, making adjustment of the B-B very difficult. A slightly thicker axle would make this more of a problem. For the last set I used I had some axles made with ends turned down to 1.82mm, which gave a sliding fit of axle to wheel which then ran very true, but I had problems getting them to stay put and even Loctite 601 wasn't very effective, something Chris Pendlenton refers to in his 8F article in MRJ 200. The T9 wheel is quite a delicate one with very thin spokes, and I have found that the very tight fit can cause the wheel to distort as the axle goes in. I think Colin Seymour has had to strike a difficult balance between getting a big driving wheel to stay put on a very small axle, and I haven't had as much success as I would have liked. I might try on another occasion an axle size somewhere between the two dimensions.

On the P4 one I did I used Ultrascale wheels, which have axles 1.98 - 1.99mm, were as true as you would expect, and a good firm fit on the axles. Bear in mind though that you're paying a lot more for them. I shall pin them to the axles once all is complete. The only problem here was that the bosses on a T9 wheel are quite pronounced, so Ultrascale have copied this, and as a result there is little/no room in the coupling rod splashers for the crankpins. So a bit of rebuilding of the front of them has been needed. On another occasion I will slightly reduce the boss on the wheel and shorten the axle. This sounds horrid but I think it'll not be noticed as the footplate and splashers cover half of the wheels. Hornby have made the loco to scale width (in 00, there was no problem with clearances) and I wonder if the Martin Finney kit had any clearance issues. There's not much room in that area at all. This P4 model has had the tender weight bearing on the back of the loco, and I took as much sideplay out of the drivers as I could. As I said in another thread somewhere on here, we had seven carriages behind it on the level on 'Wadhurst' and it was quite happy; it glided around through all manner of complicated pointwork with not a hint of a wobble.

But I think it's true to say the T9 is not the easiest of these conversions!

Philip

Bruce Boldner

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Bruce Boldner » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:17 am

Philip Hall,

Many thanks for your advice. After reading your post I was leaning towards the Ultrascale wheels, until you mentioned the crankpin clearance problem. As I have already scraped the splashers to the thickness of paint in some places, I will not go that route.
So it appears that my best option will be to obtain some replacement axles to the correct 2mm diameter.
This will of course necessitate dissassembling the chassis yet again. It will be interesting to see if I can remove the Hornby gear from the driving axle as I have (and you will probably shudder at this) superglued it to the axle. After applying Loctite 609 and leaving it to set for 24 hours, the gear promply slipped on the axle. I have also found Loctite (290, 243) unreliable for securing driving wheels to axles (I've only ever used Gibson drivers and have found that they sometimes become loose and slip out of quarter after a time). So it has become my practice to put a thin film of superglue on the outer axle ends after fitting the drivers. It usually just requires a bit of a twist to break the film, should the wheel need to be subsequently removed. I trust this will be the case with the T9!
I must say with the addition of airmail postage to Australia, the value of the Gibson T9 package is appearing less to be of good value, given that the axles are less than optimal.
I don't know about you, but I purchased my T9 simply because of the beautiful LSWR livery, which I could not hope to emulate. I have had a Martin Finney T3 sitting idle for months now, because I am still attempting to redraw the lining for it (on Corel Draw) to the satisfaction of the chap who I hope will print it for me.
Anyway, thanks again for your excellent advice.

Regards,

Bruce Boldner.

Philip Hall
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:00 pm

Bruce,

I don't think the clearance problem with Ultrascale wheels is difficult to solve, it merely needs care. John Critchley in a recent Snooze solved it by doing away with the crankpin washers front and back and thinning the crankpin nuts. He was using Alan Gibson coupling rods; I use the Hornby ones as you have so they're a bit thinner to start with. I probably wouldn't omit the rear washers as then the rods would be running on plastic. I doubt if the thinning of Ultrascale bosses would notice at all and that isn't difficult, but of course doing work on an expensive wheel is always a worry. If you've got true running AG wheels then new axles are a way forward, and perhaps a dimension for the ends somewhere between the two figures I've quoted would be a good place to start. It would be best to find out the actual size of the hole in your wheels first as they do vary slightly. I had a local Gauge One live steam builder turn my axles up on a very big Chesterfield lathe using the biggest collet chuck I've ever seen. He was told me that the 2mm silver steel I'd given him was a quarter of a thou out! But still I had some problems, and I would recommend that you pin the wheels to the axles as Tim Venton has described in his chassis building notes on the forum. Reduction in hassle, lack of facilities in my own workshop (I only have a small lathe) and therefore time is why I am using Ultrascale now for T9s.

As for the drive gear, I suspect the reason you're having problems with locking this is again the size of the axle. Also, I always thought 243 was a threadlocker, 601 0r 603 is for gluing gears and wheels on shafts. But again see Chris Pendlenton's comments in the latest MRJ. A 1.98mm axle will be much better but still a Loctited gear is no substitute for a pinned one which will never come loose. Knurl the axle a touch, and once the Loctite is set, drill into the gear at about 45 degrees and into the axle until some swarf appears, then withdraw the drill and glue a brass pin in. If the drill snaps off in the battle you'll have pinned it anyway.

I too have a couple more to do with ornate livery That Must Not Be Tampered With. it;'s a shame that these are both narrow cab versions, as the wide cab one is so much easier!

Good luck,

Philip

Bruce Boldner

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Bruce Boldner » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:57 pm

Hello again Philip,

Thanks for your continuing advice re the T9. Today, I purchased a length of axle material , listed at 2mm diameter, from a local hobby shop. It appears to be piano wire (is this different from silver steel? which I wouldn't know where to find locally). When I applied my calipers to it in the shop, it appeared to measure from 1.97 to 1.98mm, but now that I've got it home, cut it to length and fitted one driver onto each axle, the axles only measure 1.96mm. This isn't much of a gain over the Gibson axles, which measure from 1.92 to 1.93mm.
So I will go through the motions of reassembling the whole kaboodle, but am expecting the ducks waddle to rear its ugly head again.
Your advice to roughen up the driving axle and pin the gear to it makes sense and I will certainly do this. But not until I arrive at properly sized axles. So I will just superglue the gear onto the axle I bought today and if the slop remains I will pull the gear off, pending yet another axle.
There has to be some place in Melbourne where I can purchase some silver steel rod of not less than 1.98mm. I need to purchase it locally, so that I can measure it on site before purchasing. (I notice Eileens Emporium in the UK has 2mm diameter silver steel rodding, but what is the actual diameter?) Perhaps a miniature engineering supplier for the live steam folk?

I do note your advice that Ultrascale not only provide the best wheels, but also supply axles of around 1.98 to 1.99mm. That will remain a last option (they're just SO expensive.)

I'll let you know what transpires in due course.

Regards,

Bruce Boldner.

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Forum Team
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:33 pm

Does anyone in Melbourne stock NWSL (North West Short Line) parts?
They do packs of axle material in a range of sizes.
Regards
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

Bruce Boldner

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Bruce Boldner » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:06 pm

Keith Grovenor,
Thanks for the advice that NWSL sell axle stock. Yes a number of shops stock NWSL here in Melbourne. I shall keep it mind for any future project which may require substitute axle material.
But the 1.96/7 axle material I purchased locally has done the trick with my T9. I had already epoxied the rear bearings into the chassis block and that reduced the slop considerably. I then followed your tip and glued lead sheet to the chassis sides to get some weight into the beast. This reduced the axle side play to perhaps a 1/4mm. The slightly larger diameter axles had a firmer grip in the wheel centres. With one wheel tapped onto an axle, I mounted the axle in my portable drill and slowly rotated it until, with much tweaking, I could eventually detect no wobbling of the wheel on the axle. Then after mounting the second wheel on each axle, I rolled them back and forth on the kitchen bench, tweaking away until the second wheel was also without wobble. After checking the quartering, I mounted both axles in the chassis and gave it a brief run on the track. Then I superglued the wheels to the axles as I did NOT want them to go out of true after persevering so long with them.
And Philip Hall, following your suggestion, I tried to rough up the driving axle center with a file in order to assist the gear to grip. However, all I seemed to do was to smooth the axle even further! So I rolled a small cone of very thin brass foil (0.09mm or 0.003in), pushed it over the axle, then tapped the gear over both. The foil made the gear grip the axle quite firmly, though not so much as to split the gear. I then abraded the foil away on either side of the gear with a small carborundum disc in the Dremel, so that the axle could fully seat in the chassis block. I then applied some Loctite 290 to one side of the gear on the axle. I know this isn't the strongest Loctite, being a threadlocker. However, they promote it as a "wick in", meaning it's thin enough to penetrate into very tight cavities. And believe me there was no daylight between that gear, the foil and the axle! But because I've never had much luck with any of the Loctites I've tried, I applied superglue to the other side of the gear! Now I feel secure at last!
With the added lead in the locomotive, plus a little in the tender my T9 will now pull my four Roxey 48ft coaches, plus 6 wheel van and four wheeled fruit van (all brass) around my completely flat layout. I doubt it would pull another coach without slipping, but it's enough. I'm happy.
I realise that getting the wheels true on the axles is hardly a new idea. But even with a rigid chassis, the T9 runs everywhere on my layout, being more sure footed even than some locomotives I've compensated. Even the 8 wheeled watercart can be run to and fro though my double slips. So I firmly believe that the time taken to ensure every wheel was running absolutely true was the key. And if the wheels are without wobble, than the back to back never varies throughout each rotation.
Enough said. The old timers will be yawning!
My thanks again to Keith and especially to Philip Hall.
Regards,

Bruce Boldner.

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Forum Team
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:06 pm

I tried to rough up the driving axle center with a file in order to assist the gear to grip. However, all I seemed to do was to smooth the axle even further!

The aim of this is to introduce some 'knurling' onto the axle similar to what you usually find on Hornby axles. The way I have done it is to use a big, (about 8") rectangular file about 1/8" thick, and using the toothed edge of the file bear down on the cetre of the axle and roll it back and forth so that the teeth press into the axle and force up the material between the teeth, this has worked for me on quite a few axles now.
An alternative, although not personally tried yet is to apply a centre punch at three places equispaced around the axle which should have the same effect and may be a bit more controllable, you would need a vee block to do this.

For a bit more on the Alan Gibson axle issue see "Use of Alan Gibson Wheels" on this page http://www.norgrove.me.uk/wheelcon.htm

Regards
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

Philip Hall
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:00 pm

Bruce,

Glad to hear you've cured all the problems. Perseverance pays!

Philip

Bruce Boldner

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Bruce Boldner » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:58 pm

Keith Norgrove,

Thanks for your explanation of how to knurl an axle with a file. I also wish to take this opportunity to apologise for calling you Keith Grovenor in my last post. Without thinking, I thought your layout name to be your surname.

Regards,

Bruce Boldner.

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Forum Team
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:36 pm

I also wish to take this opportunity to apologise for calling you Keith Grovenor in my last post. Without thinking, I thought your layout name to be your surname.

No problem Bruce, my Granddad used that inversion for the name of his house and I tend to use it as my user name on forums anyway (as well as for the layout).
Best regards
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

williambarter
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:23 am

Re: Hornby T9

Postby williambarter » Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:12 pm

A bit late to this thread, but as I'm about to try this conversion I'm grateful for the good advice in it.

Just one further complication as I'm modelling one with 6-wheel tender as running in Kent in the early '20s. Apart from the fact that Hornby have managed to put the tender guard irons on the loco end of the frames rather than the outer end, which is irritating but not too big a job to put right.

On the 6-wheel tender, there isn't clearance between the frames for Alan Gibson S4 wheels, and I'm torn between possible approaches to putting this right:
1 Cut off the plastic frames and replace with new home-made brass ones
2 Leave the existing frames in situ and scrape away at the back of them until I have clearance
3 Cut off the the existing frames very carefully and relocate them a bit further apart.

Has anyone tried any of these with success, or had a better idea? I'm tempted by 3 as it looks as if as a bonus I could turn the two frames round at the same time and get the guard irons at the right end. And if I wreck anything, 1 is always there as a fall back.

William

Philip Hall
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:16 pm

William,

You must have an early model as Hornby have corrected the anomaly of the guard irons on later productions, as with the injectors between the driving wheels, similarly the wrong way round. I have converted one of these to EM, where there was enough room, but have one of my own to do for P4. I suggest your option 3 is the way to go. The frames are quite lightly glued to the footplate (so they will fall off if you just try to file them) and have little lugs that engage in recesses in the footplate. When you reverse the frames this location will be lost, so just file them to fit or cut them off and then secure with MekPak. I would also thin the frames down a bit so they look a bit better as well as giving you more room.

Alan Gibson 3’11” are the nearest available for the tender and it is useful to sand down the boss on the tender wheels so it is flush with the tyre face. This will give you more room and is completely invisible. For the engine I would only use Ultrascale, as the axle is 2mm and it is essential that the wheel is rigid to stop any chance of wobble. If you are modelling a wide cab engine, no more need be done with the wheels, but if it is a narrow cab one, you will need to file down the boss on the drivers by about 0.5mm to allow room for the coupling rods. For the same reason the backing washers for the crankpins should be thinned and the Hornby rods retained. Making up new rods of a proper thickness will create new problems for clearance and the thinner rods are hardly noticeable.

I am just going down to my workshop and will look at my example to see if I’ve missed anything.

Philip

Philip Hall
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Hornby T9

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:55 pm

William,

I have just had a look at my (unconverted as yet) 6 wheel tender T9. I was reminded of a few things when I looked through the box of bits:

Alan Gibson wheels have 2mm wide tyres as you know and with a b-b of 17.7mm gives you 21.7mm to fit in between the frames which on my model are 21.9mm apart. A bit tight, and as I said, the frames are just glued lightly into recesses, so there is room for variations which it seems you have found. I would now thin down the wheels to a tyre width of 1.9mm (just with a fine file, a few strokes around the circumference in quarters and then a rub down on an emery board). And then taking off the boss as I described earlier. When you refit the frames the right way around (and you’ll need to do a little work to disguise the tails of the buffers) just move them outboard a trifle and all should be well.

If you need the engine to pull a bit more a useful dodge is to add more weight at the front of the tender than the back and fit a little spring over the coupling pin. That will transfer a little of this weight to the rear of the engine whilst the extra weight will hold the tender down into the track. I take off the centre pickups to prevent drag as these wheels have a little upward play. It will also pay to check that there is some upward play in the front bogie as some examples have a bogie pin that is a fraction too long or a spring that is too stiff. Both these things will not help tractive effort.

As for the engine, you may be able to obtain a replacement gearwheel from Ultrascale, which will save having to drill and pin the Hornby one in place. He may also do balance weights as well. I ought to add that there is absolutely no room in a narrow cab engine for the wheels to wobble at all because of the clearances, or rather lack thereof.
There’s quite enough scraping out of the splashers to do as it is!

Something that I would regard as essential Is a replacement brass motor mount from Peter’s Spares, and also a spare rear mounting plate. The Hornby originals that I have had over the years have been prone to Mazak rot, and whilst it’s not a problem to replace it later on, I now fit the brass one as standard to save problems. The rear mount also rots, but Peter’s Spares sell spare Hornby ones and it’s worth having one to hand just in case. Maybe newer models aren’t susceptible to this but it sounds like yours is an older production.

Good luck, it sounds like yours will be running before my one. My 700 Class will get there first I think!

Philip


Return to “Steam Locomotives”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests