60163 Tornado: Dave Bradwell Chassis + Hornby Bodywork

[DougN]

Sorry for the delay John. Below are 2 photos that I think have come out OK.

DSC_0450.JPG

This is the top spring arrangement in the Q6

Below is the springing that you have on the A1 which is the same as the B1 that I built about 8 years ago.... well long ago enough to have forgotten how it went together!

DSC_0451.JPG

The etched spring unit holds the axles in and the up turn from memory go through the screw adjusters and gets caught from memory, (tangled is another way to say it) so the springs don't fall out of the adjusters.

In the comming week end I will have to do some remedial work on the B1 and I will explore how I got it all to work for you!
(Oh those photos have come out well... tried out a new setting on the camera.... I am happy with the out come!)

[Horsetan]

..I do like the idea of having independent, and independently adjustable, springing for each wheel.

It was to save us from this sort of fiddling wheel by wheel adjustment, with no possible basis for determining what's adjusted right and what's not, that CSBs were invented for....

Believe it or not, some people don't want to use CSBs......

[Will L]

Believe it or not, some people don't want to use CSBs......

Oh I believe it, the world is full of people who like doing things the hard way.

Will

[John McAleely]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I also received two very helpful emails, and as a result was pointed at some more diagrams that Dave makes available in other kits.

These were very clear, and I've just spent a very enjoyable, but f-rated, few hours trial assembling them. Even with the diagrams, I got them wrong once, but that was just my carelessness

Looking back at the above, the diagrams in this thread would now be sufficient for me to repeat the exercise, so thank you all again.

I'll add a serendipitous discovery. Putting the little grubs crews in place is much easier on a chassis which doesn't have the axles and wheels in place. Much more room to manoeuvre. I only discovered this after getting one axle 'right', and then remembering I hadn't scrubbed the flux from the non-functional spring units that hold the axle bearings in place...

A question: One of the holes for the grubs crews has somehow come up a little big, and whilst the screw does turn in the tapped thread, it also drops straight through at the slightest pressure. Any suggestions for how to get it to stay in place?

The tab it sits on looks too small to sustain a new hole alongside, so my bodgers approach is to solder it, and forgo adjusting the suspension on that wheel. Any thoughts?

[Horsetan]

....A question: One of the holes for the grubs crews has somehow come up a little big, and whilst the screw does turn in the tapped thread, it also drops straight through at the slightest pressure. Any suggestions for how to get it to stay in place?

The grubscrews are 10BA, I think, so you would most likely have to drill or tap smaller than this. I know that when I tapped 10BA, I had exactly the same problem as you did, so had to fill with (electrical) solder and re-drill smaller.

[John McAleely]

so had to fill with (electrical) solder and re-drill smaller.

Interesting sounding suggestion. What is the thinking behind electrical solder?

[Horsetan]

....What is the thinking behind electrical solder?

Resin-cored flux. Not quite as corrosive as the stuff we normally use, so slightly less harmful to rust-prone grubscrews.

[John McAleely]

Filling with solder and redrilling (1.3mm) then retapping (10BA) seems to have been the trick. I suspect my initial attempt included lots of me waggling the tap around, and hence making the thread/hole larger than spec.

Today I assembled the gearbox, which was as simple as for the 03/04 chassis I did before. I remain settled on powering this in the loco. Perhaps not state-of-the-art for a powerful pacific loco (tender mounting was suggested), but it should be within my skills.

In reality this loco will likely only potter around yards and engine sheds, so it shouldn't be a terrible problem.

[Paul Willis]

Today I assembled the gearbox, which was as simple as for the 03/04 chassis I did before. I remain settled on powering this in the loco. Perhaps not state-of-the-art for a powerful pacific loco (tender mounting was suggested), but it should be within my skills.

In reality this loco will likely only potter around yards and engine sheds, so it shouldn't be a terrible problem.

Although of course it will be sighted on an SLS special running at a decent lick through Pampisford...

Not probably by the time of this year's Scalefour East-ish, but I'm sure that it will

Cheers
Flymo

[John McAleely]

I'm sure it will be at Scaleforum East-ish, but probably as a non-running work in progress

No questions today, just a picture of progress to date:

TornadoChassisWheelsOn.jpg

I have a couple of sessions of minor fettling ahead of me, and then it looks like it will be ready to hit the rolling road as an inside-cylinder 0-6-0...

[John McAleely]

Two more milestones today. The chassis moved under power on the track:

IMG_4470.jpg

(and my rolling road), and I also started work on the tender. This involved lots of plastic surgery to the hornby chassis, so that the kit inside frames can be slotted in:

IMG_4471.jpg

[John McAleely]

A little more progress on the tender today - it is all ready for some trial fits together:

IMG_4518.jpg

IMG_4517.jpg

I'm not convinced the springs are correctly adjusted yet, and I'm still working on the brake gear (I also need to remove the plastic pull rod from the moulded chassis).

[Horsetan]

Doing well there.

[John McAleely]

Members will have started receiving Scalefour News 178. As a direct result of seeing this thread on here, James asked me to write up the Exactoscale driving wheels I've used.

Scalefour News 178 (PDF in the member only archive)

Summary: I liked them, and also think they are very beginner friendly.

[Horsetan]

..... very beginner friendly.

Not wallet-friendly, though

[John McAleely]

While there has been spots of rain outside, and olympics on in the background, I've got the chassis to the point where every axle has a trial fit:

IMG_4554.jpg

It looks like I'll need to paint some of structure before finally fitting the wheels (true of the bogie at least). When is a good time in the assembly sequence to paint? Is it easy to remove paint in areas where I discover I need to solder something on?

I also clearly need to start using my longer test track

[John Bateson]

A keen follower of this thread since I have one of Mr Bradwell's kits in my to-do retirement drawer.
My tactic with painting is to use self etching primer at first which will highlight all the lumps and bumps that should not be there. Then I use a glass fibre brush to remove those areas and re-paint with the same self etching primer.
Once I am satisfied with the overall picture, I strip and repaint from scratch which gets rid of all the areas where new coats have left an edge on top of the old coats.
I have also been known to bend the ear of the many painting experts on here but have never achieved their success...
John

[John McAleely]

Do you hand/brush paint on the primer, or do you use a spray/airbrush? I've never had much luck with making attractive looking paintwork with a brush, and I worry that that applies to undercoats as much.

In order to incentivise myself a bit, and provide a target, I've just entered this model in the 2013 armchair challenge. I shall leave it to others to decide which category it belongs in, if the entry is accepted!

[John Bateson]

I normally use spray from a can.
What I have done in the past is to get the standard Halfords grey primer (not the self etch variety) to do the first test coat to identify all the blemishes.
Then I dunk it in a vat of cellulose thinners once I am satisfied - that cleans it up ready for the real etch primer coat.

I also have an ultrasonic cleaner. And the end result is still very suspect!

PQ1 Single Pack Etch Primer 150ml Aerosol 150PQ1 1 £7.50 from Phoenix Paints
"Cellulose Thinners 5LTR" £12.99 Sold by: Wilco Motor Spares Ltd via Amazon - stored in my shed awaiting first use.

Don't get the usual thinners from either Halfords or your local car parts shop - it is ultra expensive.

Since I posed the challenge in Scalefour News about Tornado when I occupied the editorial hot seat I have been wanting to see a P4 model - looking forwards to Aylesbury.

[John McAleely]

Thanks! I'm still building up the courage to put paint onto a model I've built in my recent batch, but I need to make progress if I'm to hit Scaleforum.

So, I've been doing a steamy bit of the build:

IMG_4824.jpg

I was struck by the review of Iain Rice's latest book in Snooze - perhaps best targeted at someone new to the steam lark - as a view I completely agreed with. I have been recently reading a copy, and I've found it very useful!

[John McAleely]

Time for a question on that theme. I believe that the valvegear, etc I'm about to start building has a 'forwards' and a 'reverse' setting (I think - maybe there are more). I've also seen comments about choosing which to model, given that it won't actually work in that way.

Will it be obvious which is which when I get there? If I have a picture of a stationary locomotive, can I tell which way the gear is arranged?

[Horsetan]

John:

If you look later at your A1's expansion link / dieblock assembly, mid-gear (i.e. neutral) coincides with the pivot point of the link. Forward gear is anything below the pivot. Reverse gear is anything above it.

[John McAleely]

expansion link / dieblock assembly

Thank you - armed with that knowledge, it seems that Hornby's chassis has everything set up in neutral. Is that actually my only choice (given that I want my loco to go forwards and backwards), or can I choose to model this in (say) forwards position, and just have to put up with disapproving frowns from those in the know whenever the loco goes backwards? Or would it actually seize up?

[Horsetan]

expansion link / dieblock assembly

Thank you - armed with that knowledge, it seems that Hornby's chassis has everything set up in neutral.

Quite a lot of kitbuilders do this. But then, a lot of etches out there aren't really friendly to properly portraying reversible valve gear.

...Is that actually my only choice (given that I want my loco to go forwards and backwards), or can I choose to model this in (say) forwards position, and just have to put up with disapproving frowns from those in the know whenever the loco goes backwards? Or would it actually seize up?

Set it up any way you want. But if you can work out a way of making it go from forward to reverse and back again......

[Will L]

... it seems that Hornby's chassis has everything set up in neutral. Is that actually my only choice (given that I want my loco to go forwards and backwards), or can I choose to model this in (say) forwards position, and just have to put up with disapproving frowns from those in the know whenever the loco goes backwards? Or would it actually seize up?

The loco should run quite happily how ever you set the valve gear. If anybody disapproves of your choice, ask them how they managed to do better. 4mm Loco's with visible valve gear which don't suffer from this problem make hens teeth seem common.

Will