Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Thu May 03, 2012 8:33 am

This is the Class 8F "Immingham" test build. So far so good, the name plate seems to have come out all right although I did keep having a panic about the 'spelling'!
IMG_0014.JPG
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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Thu May 10, 2012 12:31 pm

The test build of the Atlantic C4 has gone to plan, it looks fine apart from a couple of minor points which are being sorted out easily enough.
In theory, the wheels should not touch the underside of the splashers for any of the 4 engine designs being worked on so it is always quite a relief to fit the wheels and establish the theory was correct - even for EM flanges!
I shall have to add to the instructions that builders should not increase the depth of the horn block cut-outs though, the height of the cut-outs was determined so that they limited any possible upwards motion of the axles to 0.7 mm (really the ideal is 0.5 mm).

The 3 locomotives (B1, B4 and C4) all have a full set of metal brakes as part of the etch. I have received some 3D printed sets for these and will include them with the kits to try and get some feedback on them. The nice thing is that they can be set really close to the wheel without shorting.

And for those waiting for the next set of 'fish' engines, I am informed that the etches will be here early next week. Got to make some chimneys and domes now, so it was good that I found the templates!
John
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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Wed May 16, 2012 11:00 am

I have finally got another small batch of etches for the Robinson Class 8 'Fish Engines' ready for packing. Readers who have expressed an interest (and one who has paid already) are being contacted and I hope to have these kits sent out before the end of May.

John
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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Wed May 23, 2012 7:36 am

Just about ready to order the production etches for the B1, B4 and C4 after a review of some of the parts.
I was a little unhappy with the fit of the splashers for the B1 and C4 against the boiler, in the end I re-did all the sums the traditional way using 5 degree segments along the join and measuring the 3D drawing for the cross dimensions, using a spline on the 2D to join the edges - seems to have worked nicely so I am very tempted to try (not part of the kits yet) some of Eileen's 0.5 mm 'L' section to represent the join. It will probably need the gas hob to anneal the sections when the Lady Downstairs is out one day though.
The second change was to make the internal cab fittings a much closer fit to the front inside of the cab and the backhead. This can make the cab a really solid box although taking it apart is now quite difficult if a mistake is made - a lot of heat is required!
John
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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Thu May 24, 2012 1:50 pm

Production etches now on order for the "Imminghams" and the C4 Atlantics, as well as the original Robinson 4-6-0, the Class 8C.
This will make quite a dent in the business finances (otherwise known as a loan from the housekeeping of the Lady Downstairs).
Now I have to spend a lot of time on some lathe work for chimneys, domes and smoke-boxes while I wait for the etches to arrive.
John
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Horsetan
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby Horsetan » Thu May 24, 2012 3:33 pm

Going slightly OT, but does anyone know what type of Robinson 4000 gallon tender is attached to 506 "Butler-Henderson" :?:
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Thu May 24, 2012 4:12 pm

It is (so I am informed) the self-trimming version which is a little wider with other small detail changes. It will be interesting to see if Bachmann, who I believe are about to release their model, use the correct tender or the one from the 04.
It will be difficult to tell the difference anyway once the tender is full of coal...
John
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Horsetan
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby Horsetan » Thu May 24, 2012 4:23 pm

John Bateson wrote:It is (so I am informed) the self-trimming version which is a little wider with other small detail changes....


Thanks. I picked up an unbuilt Perseverance D11/1 kit by sheer random luck yesterday, and there are at least three different tender types allowed for!
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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45609
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby 45609 » Thu May 24, 2012 6:07 pm

Horsetan wrote:Thanks. I picked up an unbuilt Perseverance D11/1 kit by sheer random luck yesterday, and there are at least three different tender types allowed for!


All of which are largely unbuildable without a significant number of replacement parts made from scratch. Rod Neep's reputation is well known. The Sam Fay tender I built here is the same as the one provided in the D11 kit. I threw 40% of it in the bin and was so narked off by it all that I got rid of my Perseverance D11. Kept the Sharman wheels though.

John Bateson wrote:It will be difficult to tell the difference anyway once the tender is full of coal...


Erm....not really. Whilst some of the D11s pulled standard GCR 4000 gallon tenders the rear coal plate position and lack of water scoop enclosures/filler hatch will be an obvious difference to the ROD tender.

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Horsetan
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby Horsetan » Thu May 24, 2012 6:10 pm

mlgilbert30 wrote:....so narked off by it all that I got rid of my Perseverance D11. Kept the Sharman wheels though....


I wonder if it's your kit I've picked up. It's got the name J.E.H. Nellist written on the box.

You wouldn't be thinking of parting with the Sharman wheels, would you........? ;)
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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iak
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby iak » Fri May 25, 2012 9:14 am

Horsetan wrote:
mlgilbert30 wrote:....so narked off by it all that I got rid of my Perseverance D11. Kept the Sharman wheels though....


I wonder if it's your kit I've picked up. It's got the name J.E.H. Nellist written on the box.

You wouldn't be thinking of parting with the Sharman wheels, would you........? ;)


Now don't go upsetting Mr Bedford again :D
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Horsetan
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby Horsetan » Fri May 25, 2012 9:46 am

iak wrote:....Now don't go upsetting Mr Bedford again :D


I've checked my copy of the last-ever Sharman catalogue, and it turns out they didn't do a "Director" driving wheel either.

So it might well have to be Bill's, but only the driving wheelsets. I'd be mixing 'em with AGW or Ultrascale.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Wizard of the Moor
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby Wizard of the Moor » Fri May 25, 2012 8:19 pm

Interesting. I have a set of Sharman drivers put by for a D11/2. Bought secondhand and, up to now, taken on trust that they're right - 6'9" 20 spokes, pin between with an 11" throw.

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Horsetan
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby Horsetan » Mon May 28, 2012 11:00 am

Wizard of the Moor wrote:Interesting. I have a set of Sharman drivers put by for a D11/2. Bought secondhand and, up to now, taken on trust that they're right - 6'9" 20 spokes, pin between with an 11" throw.


I looked in my Sharman catalogue, and the drivers you refer to are listed as 6'8", rather than 6'9". Therefore what you've got is perfect for an "in service" wheel.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Mon May 28, 2012 1:27 pm

Just spent a couple of days making smokebox doors for the B1, B4 and C4 - qty 20. Have managed to do a little better than before where it was one for the box and one for the bin - must be getting better - or is that tempting fate...
Next - the domes!

John
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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:29 pm

Yup - it was tempting fate, only this time I put them in the bin as a bulk job, since I had got a whole batch wrong.
Spent all day so far catching up ...

John
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Just finished, I hope, the final instructions for the GCR Class 8C and 8F (LNER B1 and B4) and uploaded them to the web site. The only one left to finish is the Atlantic, which has a few more differences, but is about 1/2 days work to complete, although in the main the front end is the same as the lass 8C as is most of the cab area.

I have been asked why I do not include paper copies of the instructions with the kits.
The reason is twofold. First, the cost is significant when calculated properly, and we are supposed to be saving trees etc ...
The second reason is that once the paper is printed, it is fixed in time. Where changes are needed to the instructions, whether they are serious or not, it is a simple matter to upload a fresh PDF onto the web site and then notify customers by email.
So far, the first set of instructions for the Fish Engines seem to have withstood scrutiny - but even saying that is to make them a hostage to fortune! I recently ordered 5 sets of etches for them and already 4 have gone out (or are about to go out) to customers.
John
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:54 pm

And that's it - the Atlantic Class 8B (LNER C4) instructions are now on the 'Great Central Models' web site, available for perusal etc. There does come a time when writing on the screen causes the eyes to blur and the head to wonder where it is, it took me three goes to get the first sentence right!
Now I need to see if the lathe still works ...

Another thing I keep getting asked is the convertibility of these efforts to '00' (for which mention I shall be no doubt cast into anathema/perdition). Initially I was quite sceptical, since for the larger wheels there would be real problems with the boiler interfering with the wheels, with a B-B of 14.5 mm. However, after some conversations, ideas are emerging which have some promise, although I will not be tackling that particular problem for quite a few months yet. It may not be a hard as was originally suspected.

In the meantime, I must chase up the guy who is adapting the drawings for a 7mm and 10mm version ...

John
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:19 pm

And that's it - the Atlantic Class 8B (LNER C4) instructions are now on the 'Great Central Models' web site, available for perusal etc.

And mighty impressive instructions they are, but it might be a good idea to describe it as a 4-4-2 rather than a 4-6-0 on the list of instructions.
All the best
Keith

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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:39 pm

Just received the etches for the 3 new locomotives, so will be quite busy over the next few days. PPD delivered exactly when they said they would, so I guess that's a "Good Show" - anybody ex-RAF remember that system from the 70s for a pat on the back, it made most of us oiks cringe! (Oiks - that's junior ranks to the civilians amongst us).
Still a few more things to do on the lathe, but the chimneys are the most important at the moment - now which ones did customers say they wanted ...

Still, will have to take a break on Sunday, cream teas are on the menu somewhere down towards the south east.

John
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David Knight
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby David Knight » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:53 pm

John,

Any particular reference you could point to as being helpful when it comes to turning chimneys? I may be looking at having to do one eventually.

Cheers,

David

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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:21 pm

David,
I'm having trouble uploading a file which might help (happened to me before) and the long description I added was lost.

I have no references I can point to I'm afraid, it was all learned on the job.

Basically I use a 4 mm spigot throught the part after preparing using a fly-cutter. The 4 mm spigot is an interference fit and in the case of domes, remains in place, but for chimneys, it can be removed.
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David Knight
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby David Knight » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:27 pm

Thanks John,

I dug around in my own collection and found the same advice, with illustrations, in "Model Locomotive Construction in 4mm Scale" by Guy Williams. He gives the steps and materials along with a 'how too' on the tooling. About time I made myself a flycutter anyway.

Cheers,

David

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John Bateson
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby John Bateson » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:04 am

Finally, beginning to see some light at the end of the tunnel :o and 6 kits have been posted off in the past week.
I really did not think there would be so much interest in the Robinson locomotives, the plan was to produce these at a fairly gentle pace, still leaving time for The Lady Downstairs and all the other jobs those of us in retirement are supposed to be doing.
Now I need a period of refurbishment and refreshment, stock levels are very low on some parts so 'Shapeways' will be getting a fresh order as well as one or two of our more local suppliers.

I have a list of requests to fill for new models but that will depend on time and timing before I can get around to looking at them in more detail, one or two look like a challenge both to a designer and a modeller (6 eccentrics?).

I am grateful to those who have offered advice, here, off-list and elsewhere. In spite of what the Lady Downstairs may say, I do listen! Discussions with EM and '00' modellers have increased my knowledge of the practicalities of modifying and adapting kits which were originally designed for P4 and which later had an EM option added. Chats with those who are more knowleadgeable than I about the intricacies of Robinson locomotives and their complex history have been informative - and I sometimes wondered 'what on earth were they thinking about?'.

I suspect this thread has come to the end of its main purpose which was to chronicle, allbeit briefly, the trials and tribulations of becoming a 'kit supplier', although in my case it has been, and will continue to be, non-profit making!

(but keep an eye on the New Products Section...)

John
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Horsetan
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Re: Designing & Building Great Central Locomotive Kits

Postby Horsetan » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:31 pm

John Bateson wrote:Finally, beginning to see some light at the end of the tunnel :o and 6 kits have been posted off in the past week.
I really did not think there would be so much interest in the Robinson locomotives, the plan was to produce these at a fairly gentle pace.....


Maybe everyone's waiting for you to produce the 9P/B3 (with Caprotti option) and 9Q/B7? :mrgreen:
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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