Hornby 28xx Ultrascale conversion

[HowardGWR]

Hattons have an offer of about £65 for this model. The Ultrascale site quotes a price of £120 for a conversion kit to P4. Apart from weeping bitterly at the injustice of it all (I assume a mass-produced P4 Hornby would be about £100 (?)), but thankful that it can at least be achieved, I would be interested in Philip Hall's comments on what may be involved, as he has I believe experience in doing these conversions, or indeed comments from anyone else with knowledge.

[grovenor-2685]

You can, of course, get your conversion wheels from Alan Gibson, and for the sake of just a little simple assembly save almost £80. AG wheels are £24 for the loco conversion set, £11.40 for the pony and tender, £5.30 for crankpins.
You can save that last fiver by transferring the crankpins from the Hornby wheels
Regards
Keith

[Philip Hall]

This is a great price for this loco and I shall be looking at it tomorrow for one for myself! And yes, I have had a go at the 28XX, the first one is away with its owner for test running, but will come back to me later for new cosmetic frames, which we hoped might not be needed on this one as the wheels are quite close together, but alas it looks awful at the cab end with a great chasm behind the wheels so things will have to be done with Plastikard in the usual way, and some adjustment of sandboxes etc.

Ultrascale will be a good way to go if you don't want to fiddle as the wheels will be quartered, mounted on the axles with gears and spacers and generally ready to go. I know this will work well because David Rogers has already produced some replacement final drive gearwheels and one of those, along with the laser cut balance weights, is on the test loco, which runs every bit as well as it did in 00. This first one has Alan Gibson wheels, as will some others, but I do have some Ultrascale wheels for a couple of them later on.

I think it's one of the simpler conversions, so long as you're careful. Most of the basics were in my recent M7 article in MRJ. I didn't have any problems with sloppy joints in the rods or axle centres not matching the rods (which I slimmed down a bit) as Chris Pendlenton had with the LMS 8F (mind you, neither did I with my 8F). As I say, I think the chassis needs packing out with dummy frames cut to clear any metal spacing washers behind the wheels. One word of warning, watch the size of spacing washers you use with ordinary wheels as the pickups will have to be bent to clear these. The Ultrascale drop in sets will probably have the bosses on the back of the wheels extended by the right amount so this problem will not arise. No sideplay on the front and third axles, a bit on the second and a lot on the rear one will get you around most curves. The loco is a little nose heavy, which doesn't seem to affect the running at all but if you're bothered about this you can try and arrange some weight transfer of the tender onto the rear of the engine. I did, it didn't make a lot of difference so you will gather I shan't bother again! Chris P's comments about round wheels are important given that this engine has quite a lot of them.

I did slightly lower the front buffers after adding about 10 thou to the bottom of the beam, and the tender buffers by the same amount. This is probably slightly bonkers but it seemed to me to make a difference. I also added the rim to the buffer housings which was missing. A bit of extra weight will not come amiss nor a little bit of upward play in the centre tender axle bearings. Brakes are moved out by my usual heathen method of squeezing the hanger pins with pliers, on both loco and tender. I also built up the front pony truck to resemble the real thing a bit more.

Finally, I felt that the cylinders were a touch too long and the wrong shape, so I filed a bit off the outside 'wrapper' and put on a new one of a couple of 5 thou layers, at the same time filling the cut out that Hornby have put in the fronts to give clearance for the wheels, which we shouldn't need. When this first one comes back to me I shall widen the slidebars and crossheads as the etched ones are so skinny, but I'll have to watch the clearances at the front end.

It will take you a fair few hours, for you need to take care, but with a bit of minor detailing you will have a beautifully running loco for the fraction of the price of a Finney kitbuild, which I think is something to think about when you add together all the costs. I know you can see a bit of the gearbox but as the loco runs round it really isn't that obvious; even less so with the 38XX with its fire iron tunnel.

I should perhaps mention that if you model in EM it's quite possible to punch out the wheels on the axles to the correct back to back. I turned up a punch for David Barker (Cornwallis Yard) and we had the engine running at the recent Woking show - it simply glided around all weekend.

Philip

[grovenor-2685]

A bit of extra weight will not come amiss

For my RTR conversions I have used sheet lead for the dummy frames, adds a good bit of weight low down and its easy to cut and shape.
Regards
Keith

[Philip Hall]

Keith,

I actually meant a bit of extra weight in the tender, not so much the loco! Although, of course, your idea is good if you want to lug very heavy trains around. I have problems with handling lead, though; I can manage it a bit when adding weight to stock and, in this case, the tender, but shaping it and prolonged handling I don't like. Hence my preference for Plastikard.

I have just ordered a BR Black one from Hattons, so thanks for the tip, Howard!

Philip

[HowardGWR]

This was as helpful as I hoped it would be, many thanks to both of you. I still wish Hornby made HO. I could then get on with just the scenery.

[Philip Hall]

Howard,

Glad to help. When one of them is done I'll try and remember to post a picture either on this thread or in the Portfolio section.

Philip

[Philip Hall]

The 38XX is complete now, and as promised, here's a picture.

Philip

[rule55]

Phillip,

That's very nice - any chance of a brief summary of what was done on this particular build? Was it Gibsons or Ultrascales on this loco?

Thanks,

Tony

[Edit: I've just noticed that you described what was done in an earlier post. Apologies!]

[Captain Kernow]

The 38XX is complete now, and as promised, here's a picture.

Philip

Exquisite Philip, thanks for that. When the Ultrascale wheels are available, I plan to have a go myself!

[Philip Hall]

Tim,

Ultrascale wheels are already available, just order with 3mm driving axles. It won't be a 'drop in' set, of course, but no doubt that will follow. The balance weights are available, though.

On the subject of 'drop in' conversions, I see from their website that the set for the Bachmann 3F has been done and will be available in the New Year. I gather that this has been designed around 2mm driving axles and replacement brass bushes to fit in the chassis casting, to solve the problem created by Bachmann using 2.18mm (!) driving axles. What with Dapol's Beattie tank using 3.8mm axles, it seems that standard driving axles are not going to be a 'given' in future!

Happy Christmas all!

Philip

[Brinkly]

What with Dapol's Beattie tank using 3.8mm axles, it seems that standard driving axles are not going to be a 'given' in future!

Opening up a can of worms now, will there be a conversion set for the Well Tank?

Regards,

Nick

[Philip Hall]

Opening up a can of worms now, will there be a conversion set for the Well Tank?

Ultrascale have already said no, I believe. Apart from the crazy axle size, they don't do the correct wheel (come to that, nobody does, apart from Sharman, now unavailable). Nothing comes close, especially as far as the crank throw is concerned, which is pretty critical on a Well Tank. So they would have to make a new wheel mould, for a limited edition model and a even more limited conversion potential for EM and P4. So I guess the case doesn't stack up. Changing the axle size for an existing wheel is relatively easy, making a whole new wheel is where more of the economics come in!

There isn't anywhere on their website to register an interest either, but when they return from their Christmas break, you could always give them a call...

Philip

[Brinkly]

Cheers Phill.

Regards,

Nick.