Small diversion - High Level Mineral 0-4-0

[nberrington]

Hi all

Up to my gills in wagon underframes, a rather interesting looking box was dropped off by postie. A diversion from my usual SR/LSWR outline was in the packet.
I have used Chris Gibbon's gearboxes and hormblocks, but never a loco. After reading through the rather comprehensive instructions, I couldn't resist unwrapping the beastie. Well ... one thing led to another....

[David Knight]

Hi Neil, (edit: name corrected with apologies)

I think you will find the Neilson to be a very satisfying kit. Mine is to the 'almost done' stage and is patiently waiting for me to figure out a way of rigging pickups that will be as tidy as the design of the engine plus paint the creature so it does not look like it fell into a pot of emulsion. I will try to bring it to the Symposium, maybe even in running order (well, I'll try) A great deal of thought went into the design of the kit and you can only appreciate some of it while building. A couple of pics follow, the first with the main components the second to show my search for a better safety valve cover.

Partly done.jpg

enie meenie....jpg

Cheers,

David

[Paul Willis]

I think you will find the Neilson to be a very satisfying kit. Mine is to the 'almost done' stage and is patiently waiting for me to figure out a way of rigging pickups that will be as tidy as the design of the engine

Hi David,

I haven't (yet) built the Neilson although I do have a GER Coffeepot in the unmade kits pile. However I did go through the same problems building the High Level L&Y Pug chassis kit. There is probably about the same amount of space underneath it, and between the wheels, to fit pickups into.

These are the various iterations that I went through:

pickups v1.jpg

First of all, some fairly thick phosphor bronze wire, bearing directly on the wheels. Good for the neatness of connecting to the busbars, and fairly unobtrusive. Unfortunately the forces were too strong, and it did not allow the compensated axle to move freely, or to sit squarely on the track. Fail...

pickups v2.jpg

The second attempt used thinner wire bent back on itself to give much more flexibility. Although this picture was to illustrate the various places that you can fit lead into the Pug to weight the body, you can see the pickups in the middle at the back. They worked, after a fashion, but almost moved around too much and fell off the edge of the wheel. They were also more obtrusive than the previous ones. Fail...

pickups v3.jpg

The final solution is both much neater and very effective. It is the miniature coil springs made and fitted in the way described by Morgan Gilbert here http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=550&hilit=steel about halfway down the page. They fit, have the right amount of springing, and can be kep neatly out of the way as well. Of course, my installation in nowhere near as neat as Morgan's but I'll try much harder on the next locomotive.

HTH
Flymo

[Mark Tatlow]

Hi all

....... a rather interesting looking box was dropped off by postie. Well ... one thing led to another....

Yes, I have one of these that keeps winking at me from the box of kits - I suspect it will be winking harder now that it knows you succombed.

Watching with interest therefore!!

[nberrington]

I will try to bring it to the Symposium, maybe even in running order (well, I'll try)

Hi Dave

I didn't realize you even had one! I have a week vacation at the end of April - so providing the stars align and the Manitoba flood isn't too bad, I might get it close to done for May. perhaps we can have a set of twins running in Brampton!

I thus challenge you to get her finished!

I have some nice dumb buffer wagons from 5&9 to go with them, but they won't be done by then.

Neil

[nberrington]

P.S - does anyone have photos of the prototype, or something similair? I really want to see goes into the "cab". (Something of a misnomer - I think the "space you stand and get wet and cold" would be a better description!)

[nberrington]

Tonight's progress was a little slower. Bending the saddle tanks is a significant challenge. Chris provides a spare set - generally not a good sign! However - much annealing, rolling bars, bending and fiddling, I got the suckers on with the help of my trusty RSU. Not sure how how I would have done it otherwise.
I did modify the tank supports a tad - by cutting back a single support to make some room for a decoder. (wishful thinking methinks.)

A wee dram of Arran cask strength (needed a tiny touch of water, so as not not to be confused with Carr's Red Label). I most satisfying 3 hours indeed!

[nberrington]

I decided to put the body one side. Very tempting to press on with the platework and solder the whole lot up, but I like to prove that the chassis and all its bits fit, while I can see them. (I suspect it would be just fine to press on, as thus far, the kit has fitted perfectly, and Chris has made a bespoke gearbox specifically for it.)

Nonetheless, out came the chassis. It is tiny. At least in P4, one gets a bit of room between the frames. Seems a lot is going to be visible under the boiler. I may use detailed hornblocks as a result. Chris supplies dummy inside motion. I doubt one could get a working motion in there.

[nberrington]

Andy Nummelin kindly sent me this link. Not the same loco, but pretty close on most details. He has some phenomenal high resolution pictures of GWR "Trojan" at:

http://www.andrew.nummelin.me.uk/ADR/trojan/default.asp

[nberrington]

Some decent progress this weekend. The High Level fold up gear box with 144:1 reduction is custom made to wiggle into the small loco. The Mashima 12/20 has a few millimeters of head space anteriorly - made me think flywheel! Either that, or that might be the only space for a decoder. (Seems the sneaky area in the tanks will be tough to use.)

I rolled the boiler up with my trusty GM roller. This is vital piece of gear for anyone serious about brass kits. Once formed up, the boiler clips neatly into the chassis. Everything is then a tight fit! (But perfect - brilliant design.)

The ash pan is also a neat little clip in affair - everything starting to take shape!

[nberrington]

Now for the tricky bit....

First task last night was laminating the coupling rods. Now I do confess, this is the part of kit building I find least fulfilling. If ever there was a source of models that don't run, singed fingers and incomplete kits, this would be it! In P4 the clearances are a bit tight in relation to the motion, and one has to modify the rods a tad. Herein was my first trouble in the kit, when my trusty cutting tool bent the rod. Now once one of these sods is twisted, you never get them perfect again (in my experience anyway). With much cussing, they came up sort of straight. At least the holes are equidistant.

I had intended using MJT hornblocks, thinking the cosmetic appearance may be good, but they just don't fit without major surgery. By contrast the chassis seems designed to accept the High Level version rather precisely. They are simple to fold up, and tend to come up straight and with parallel cheeks. Once assembled, the hornblocks were offered to the chassis, and the whole shooting match held in the Master Chassis jig.

My approach is to first tack the hornblocks, then remove from the jig and eyeball everything for square, and make sure they swivel as they should. Only then do I replace the chassis in the jig and solder them to the frames in earnest.

After adding the dummy inside motion, I did a bit of clean up and called it a night.

[nberrington]

So - with the Platelayers meeting in Toronto only a few weeks away, and having thrown down the gauntlet for Dave Knight to get his loco running, I couldn't dilly-dally too much.

The brake-gear is a relatively fiddly bit to get done, and it took the best part of Saturday to get it all cleaned up, soldered and relatively square. The gear clips off and the design is once again quite ingenious. Makes me want to sign up for another High Level kit!

I figured it was about time to ensure the wheels turn before tacking the motion. My (hopefully logical) approach is to ensure everything runs smoothly, before throwing in the motion, slides and all those other bits that could bind. Troubleshooting will be easier. (?)

I connected things up, quartering with the trusty GM models wheel quartering jig (Another essential bit of kit - just wonderful). Anyway - off she zoomed at a stately crawl! I haven't yet done anything for pickups, but was thinking Gibson plungers may be the answer. We'll see....

[nberrington]

And so..

[David Knight]

Your soldering is very tidy Neil, puts mine to shame. I must get me an RSU. Now you can see what I mean about the fun of fitting pickups

BTW I hope the water levels around you are behaving themselves.

Cheers,

David

[nberrington]

Here's the soldering shop. The "Super Chief" is a hideous looking thing, and an amazing RSU - with finely adjustable output. I still use the Weller for most things.

The Red River came up quite fast with all the snow melting, but the city opened the flood-way, so I think we're OK. I always worry about water backing up through the sewers into the basement. (At least you fellows in the UK don't need to worry with that too often!)

[John Bateson]

Gibson plungers may be the answer

A few years ago I removed all my Gibson plungers - they cause far too much friction and on larger wheels tended to force the rim outwards.
John

[Andy W]

Yes, I'd avoid plungers.

P.S. Lovely work!

[David Knight]

Hi Neil,

Just thought I'd post a pic of my wee pug with the rods & cylinders fitted. Clearances are very tight and I found it helpful to bevel the top and bottom of the backing plates on the crossheads slightly just to be safe. The mechanism now rolls without argument and will soon be tested under power. I think I may have a pickup arrangement sorted but more later.

Cheers,

David

snug fit.jpg

[nberrington]

Cylinder Construction.

The cylinder assembly is rather sneaky, albeit a bit of a fiddle. The cylinder wrapper was contoured using beading pliers used by jewelers (Bought at Micheal's - a large box store hobby shop here in Canada).
First run over the bench very promising.

[nberrington]

Platework and details

The remaining body details were now assembled. Note the lamination of brass to whitemetal on the buffers. Easier than you might think! I tinned the brass with DCC Concepts 100 degree solder. This was followed by a liberal brush of Carrs red label. I then turned the RSU down to 60% and touched the brass gently - fizzle, pop, secured!

[David Knight]

Looking very good Neil, your progress is very swift. You have succeeded in prodding me towards the finish line so FWIW I include a pic of my effort at pickups. They are mounted on the dummy motion with the help of a couple of grooves in the resin side of the PCB and a 10 BA screw and a cross piece tapped 10 BA and mounted on the opposite side of the motion.

pickups.jpg

The wires can be seen near the bottom under the axle feeding up through the gearbox as recommended in the instructions. The actual pickups are 28 SWG phosphor bronze. And it works!

Cheers,

David

[grovenor-2685]

Beading pliers - neat little inexpensive tool.

Looks remarkably like the adjusting pliers Kadee sell for their coupler tails.
Good work
Keith

[johnp]

Cylinder Construction.

The cylinder wrapper was contoured using beading pliers used by jewelers (Bought at Micheal's - a large box store hobby shop here in Canada).

Does anyone know of a supplier in the UK. It looks a little like a Kadee trip pin pliers.

Thanks.

Regards,

John

[allanferguson]

Cylinder Construction.

The cylinder assembly is rather sneaky, albeit a bit of a fiddle. The cylinder wrapper was contoured using beading pliers used by jewelers.

These look like wot I got from Squires for £12 odd -- but they do seem to be available quite cheaply on fleabay. Very useful tools!

Pliers.JPG

[nberrington]

Question regarding loco crew.

The little loco body weighs in at a mere 35g. I have added lead to the side tanks (liquid gravity and resin mixture), the cylinders and bunkers. Thinking every little bit helps, I was wondering if 2 loco crew would be excessive for a loco of this nature?

Would a small industrial tank need two loco crew? I would imagine one bloke could handle shoveling and working the little beast?

Does anyone know what the usual practice might be?

Regards

Neil