O4 Numbering in GC days

[John Bateson]

Does anybody on here have a list (or can point to an accessible reference) of the 04 numbers in Great Central days. I note in the Hornby magazine that the reviewer is lamenting the lack of etched/cast plates for the numbers and for the builders plate.

John

[dcockling]

Hi John,

I have "Locomotives at the Grouping 2 - London & North Eastern Railway", H C Casserley and Stuart W Johnston published by Ian Allen, ISBN 07110 0553 2

It has that there were 130 in service on 1-1-23 with scattered numbers between 5001 and 5413, also 5183 to 6252 inclusive. As the LNER numbers are GC numbers plus 5000 the number lists at the back of the book give (with 5000 knocked off): 1, 5, 8, 26, 69, 93, 102, 133, 155, 271, 331 to 335 inc, 346 to 355 inc, 375 to 400 inc, 402 to 407 inc, 966 and 1183 to 1252 inc. By my reckoning that's two short and I've been through the list twice.

I'm no expert on the GC and have no idea if they had been renumbered during the course of their lives pre-grouping, but I hope that this helps a little.

Have you tried the LNER forum?

All the Best
Danny

[Will L]

John

What you need is the RCTS green bible, (Locomotives of the LNER) Part 6b. I can extract the necessary pages or bring it to the next CAG meeting if you want.

Will

[John Bateson]

Will and Danny,
I found a list in the EM Johnson book, thought I had already looked there - but it seems to be the same as Danny's but ordered differently.
Have tried to find 6B over the past months but it seems extremely difficult to find so am grateful for the offer of a quick browse through it at the next CAG meeting. I already have about half the range.

As a corollary, I would also like to be sure about the works plates for these engines. The only ones I have found are for Gorton and the North British.
At what stage did the North British abandon the 'rhomboid' format and adopt the ellipse.
I can't find a suitable pattern for thr Kitson built engines so if anybody can supply the appropriate pointer I would be grateful.

John

[Will L]

...so am grateful for the offer of a quick browse through it at the next CAG meeting. I already have about half the range..

You'll be very welcome, but best remind me a day or so before hand.

As a corollary, I would also like to be sure about the works plates for these engines. The only ones I have found are for Gorton and the North British.

Well that only leaves Kitson locos (183 to 202). Other makers built for the ROD but they were never GCR stock. B6 has the ROD numbers too.

At what stage did the North British abandon the 'rhomboid' format and adopt the ellipse.
I can't find a suitable pattern for thr Kitson built engines so if anybody can supply the appropriate pointer I would be grateful.

As to shape a quick scan through Yeadon doesn't shown anything but sizes of oval, which may answer both remaining questions. I'll bring Yeadon along too shall I?

I'm no expert on the GC and have no idea if they had been renumbered during the course of their lives pre-grouping,

The GCR allocated numbers on the next available number basis, with numbers being reused when older loco's got transferred to the duplicate list (RCTS part 1). No O4 was ever on the duplicate list, so GCR no does = 1924 number -5000.

Will

[John Bateson]

Will,
I have the Yeadon book and couldn't find any strange shapes - but the EM Johnson book Vol 1 shows (or seems to show) that ROD engines had the rhomboid fitted - from the NB Works in Glasgow.
Vol 2 of Johnson also shows most of the RODs with elliptical plates and one with a circular plate.

Confused I am. I suspect that in producing an etch for these it would be wise to include several of each, and several of the elliptical types since the wording varied.
The special edition from the NRM seems to be a Kitson engine but the pictures I have don't show this clearly enough.

John

[Will L]

John

Have you seen the The Loco Profile on the ROD 2-8-0's? This shows some NBL ROD examples did have rhombus shaped plates, and has a good photo of such a plate dated 1919, although that particular loco went to the GWR.

Also I've just found a couple of photo's in the second Yeadon (part 24 B, page 178) which shows a couple of O4/8's still with rhombus shaped plates.

Will