Bradwell Q6

[DougN]

Well since the Thursday before Easter I started to get excited again and got on with some more building on the kit. The tender has appeared. It is a joy to put together other than the number of options that you have to navagate through. I think I have got the tender mostly correct. I don't own a copy of the RCTS LNER 6c book in which to check the details. I will have to borrow one to double check things! any hoo here is a photo of progress to date:-

Q6 02 020511.jpg

I think that you would agree that it is certainly starting to look like a Q6. I have since removed a ding in one side of the tender. It seemed that the solder hadn't allowed the sheet to sit down hard on the sub frame.

I have also looked more seriosuly about the gear box and motor and have ordered some bits and a new kit from Chris at highlevel. the Gear box I am intending to use is the Compact Road runner+ and a 1420 motor. the next kit will be a Black Hawthorne. Which I guess will fall together as well as the Q6 has!

[DougN]

Well last night I decided it was time to get on with the brake gear to the tender. I have this time got the brake gear right I think. the tollerances are tight but workable. I found that it was better to put the brake gear on the sub chassis which holds the water tank. I have diverged from the instructions in that I have totally removed the fold down back to the water tank. the reason for this is the brake gear is on a sub assembly that can be removed. This does as Dave Bradwell suggest the wheels become "tangled" and have to be put together and traped in the brake gear. the front axle is "freeish"as I dont think it will be as traped so it is on and off with the wheels every time to get in and out of the brake gear! Hopefully this is only during painting and then they can stay in there! Have a look at the photos to see what I an rabbiting on about. Oh I havn't put the front pull rods on yet either!

Tender brake gear 1.jpg

Tender brake gear 2.jpg

Crazy question is there anyone out there reading this and do you have any questions or things you would like to mention?

[David Knight]

Hi Doug,

Brake gear that can be removed is a true blessing! My experience with Bill B's J72 frame and the High Level Neilson tank have shown that it can be done and is invaluable for any engine that needs regular maintenance (don't they all!). Was the tender gear on your Q6 designed that way or did you adapt it?

Cheers,

David

[grovenor-2685]

is there anyone out there reading this

Doug, according to the index page 1699 views have been made of this topic, even spread over 27 posts that is quite a lot of readers, some of us are a bit shy when it comes to commenting but we are all learning and I would not be surprised if Dave B has a few more orders as a result.
Its looking good so maybe your enforced rest/00 dabble has done some good.
Regards
Keith

[Paul Willis]

Crazy question is there anyone out there reading this and do you have any questions or things you would like to mention?

Yes, reading it with much enjoyment. There's always things that we can gain from someone else's modelling, and particularly when the pictures show how it goes together.

No questions, but I'm not building either a Q6 or any Bradwell kits!

Flymo

[Mike Garwood]

I know nothing about the prototype and I probably never will want to find out, but as Paul says I do enjoy watching good modelling, especially when the end result is so good. Look forward to the next posting....

regards

Mike

[DougN]

Well very heartening to hear that the readers are enjoying the build of this Loco. I must admit that I am enjoying doing it. I have a couple more photos in the camera of the brake gear for David. It is sort of designed to be removable but the way the water tank is supposed to be would make it near on impossible. There is also a strengthening plate that runs paralell to the buffer beam that also makes things challanging to get in also. A little filing of the frames and the assembly slips in. I need to think seriously about the loco's brake gear, so, as David has mentioned that it is better if it is removable. It is also the area I have the most trouble with other than pick ups. I will be using the "2mm axle with a slit" to make coils this time as shown on this fourm! This looks alot more sensible. You can on the photos see the rear of the tank on the Left hand side of the photo's which was changed from the tender body. The only other thing was I had to pull the arrangement out as I had put the wheels at the wrong BTB measurement (I should never go off memory) to 17.70... things should sit on the track properly now

tender brake gear 3.jpg

tender brake gear 4.jpg

Oh,thanks for the compliment Mike, I have never though of my self as a good modeller... may be average and slightly nutty. (can't be excentric as I am not weathly! ) The kit certainly helps the impression of a good modeller, As Keith has mentioned an enforced layoff and a distraction of a OO layout for James and myself (well alright me, but don't tell SWMBO) may have allowed a little more in the way of techniques to appear!

I won't get much done this week as I have to get on with the OO layout for a visit by AMRA groups on Saturday!

All the best

[DougN]

Well I have done a little bit last night while listening to the TV. After a package from Chris Gibbon turned up with my next distraction and a new "road runner compact" Gearbox and a 1420 motor. I have put the gear box together and tried it in the loco.

So i have tried the new GB and motor in place :-

Q6 motorgb 01.jpg

OR

Q6 motorgb 02.jpg

or

Q6 motorgb 03.jpg

So in the end it fitted beauitfully:-

Q6 motorgb 04.jpg

So now i have proved that the Gearbox and motor will fit I will press on again.

Still must do some layout things for Saturday... assuming it is still on... it has turned a bit cold and wet at the mo' here in Melbourne... I even have snow at my project in Monbulk in the dandenongs... the site manager doesn't like leaving his hut any more. looks like we are in for a cold long wintre.

[Will L]

... I need to think seriously about the loco's brake gear, so, as David has mentioned that it is better if it is removable.

Doug

Removable brake gear is a very useful thing and easy to do, even on your tender. I have superimposed a picture of the method over a bit of one of your pictures.

DougN detail.jpg

You need some brass tube that is a sliding fit over the wire the brake arms are hung from. Cut off sections of the tube, like that illustrated, that are a good fit between the chassis and the brake arm. Unsolder all 6 joints like the joints circled in the picture. You will now be able to pop off the brake assembly. Fit the lengths of tub over the wire and solder on at the end against the chassis. Claer out the holes in the brake arms and spring brake assembly back on again, the bits of tube will ensure it stays in the right place and it wont need anything else to keep it on.

Didn't you say you have got a Highlevel Kit to do, that will use the same method, which isn't original to me or HighLevel for that mater.

Will

[DougN]

Thanks for that Will. i will see what I have in stock in the way of tube some time today. I was at the Melbourne area group last night I am getting enthused to keep going and do more P4 things. I think though it will be easier to modify the brake gear in the photo now that it is erected as the clearances have already been checked on the wheels (I think it would be better to do it the other way on the loco though!)

[DougN]

Now that I can reclaim the end of the dining room table again. I was playing around with the chassis for the Q6. Found a few little issues to resolve. The first Crank pin to the slid bars doesn't allow any tollerance So I will have to figure out a way to reduce the rods and CP nut down further! I have yet to go and find the small tube for the changes to the tender brake gear but I think it is more important to the loco. I also have to change the boiler back as I have opened out the wash out plugs low down on the side and every photo I have found does not show them!.... Rework I really don't like it.

[essdee]

Hi Doug,

Have been following this awhile - I seem to have a weakness for hefty NER power, going to be a lovely model. On rod/slidebar clearance, my solution for the S&D 2-8-0 (which had three-layer-rods, so substantial width), was to file back the rear laminate to reduce this thickness at the crankpin boss, and to countersink the leading crankpin entirely.

I used a spherical dental burr (thanks Jim) to hollow out the outer laminate at the crankpin hole, until I could see the surface of the middle laminate. This hollowed surface was then polished with a brasso/oil mix using the rough end of a snapped cocktail stick in the Dremel. The crankpin nut was reduced in thickness, had its corners filed to gently rounded curves and its inner surface domed, by impaling on the other end of the stick, mounting in the Dremel and filing/emery buffing (wear eye protection), then polishing against a buffing pad (card railway ticket impregnated with oil/brasso mix). By this stage it looked like a largish handrail knob cut in half - but with a threaded hole! One of the pair went 'off piste' on the workbench briefly, but with fine tweezers I could handle these tiny nuts OK.

I was able to 'lose' the crankpin nut entirely within the rod thickness this way, see attached pic; the second axle had a reduced and semi-domed crankpin made in the same way.

Hope you can use this idea to help sort the Q6; look forward to the next stage!

Best wishes

Steve

[essdee]

Having posted the preceding pic - before anyone wastes their time commenting on the dark shadow round the sunken crankpin nut, suggesting that the crankpin is a very loose fit, it isn't. The crankpin itself makes a comfortable, but not sloppy, fit with the middle and remnant inner laminates of the rod - the generous removal of the front laminate is to ensure that the nut's corners do not foul the rod during rotation. You could leave more material, sure - but it's not particularly noticeable unless you hunt for it.

Best wishes

Steve

[Will L]

Just to add to Steve's response, If you use Gibson crankpin nuts, which are top hat shaped, you can loose them into the depth of the rods in much the same way. While I don't find it necessary to reduce the nut in any way, you need to notch the edge of the nut so you can turn them to get them on and off again. I'd be quite interested to know how Steve manages this. My O4 also needed the nuts on both the firt and sceond axles recessed.

[essdee]

Will,

I have not used the top-hat threaded GIbson crankpin nuts (didn't realise they existed!) -sound very useful for the future, as I don't like having to secure the steel top hat type with cyano or (gasp) a touch of solder.

My domed, recessed nuts have no tightening slots - I found no problem using a fine pair of Inox tweezers (ex my geology research days over thirty years back) to tighten and unfasten the nuts. Once all was well, they have a dab of Nutlock to discourage loosening but not prevent unfastening.

Best wishes

Steve

[Will L]

Steve

Yes the Gibson crank pin nuts are steel. I screw them hard onto the crankpin bush and friction keeps them in place. Perhaps that's why I feel the need for a positive way of screwing them down. If I get one that ever insists on unscrewing it self, it will be treated to a touch of Loctite 243, but it hasn't been necessary yet .

DougN detail 2 O4.jpg

My O4 in cruel close up, shows all the faults. Being wider than a 14ba nut you don't get much rod left round the recessed nut. The remaining 2 on this side are fitted the other way round. They don't need a notch as I screw them on tight by gripping them in a pinchuck.

Will

[essdee]

Will,

Yes-recognise them now - I failed to connect 'top-hat' with the standard Gibson crankpin nut! More Panama hat?! I have used them reversed like on your O4, on other locos; I found it beneficial to mount them on cocktail sticks too, in the Dremel and file or grind the outer diameter down. Unfortunately this creates a host of nasty magnetic steel filings, and a ragged lip to the nut, which need careful fettling, hence I came to prefer the brass crankpin nuts. You have made a nice neat job with your though.

Best wishes

Steve

[DougN]

Thanks Will and Steve I had a nice hour or so checking that the chassis rolled nicely last night. It is still tight with a slight tightening which could be down to quartering, though opening the rods slightly may be all it needs. I will give the dental burrer a spin tonight on the front 2 axles crank pins. They need to go further in. I use a old clutch pencil to put the rods on... cost me a fortune when at Uni (was it really 18years ago )and never used it past first year... but the best thing for holding and screwing Gibson crank pin nuts onto the threads and they can't ping across the room either. I need about .2mm more on both sides so I guess the burrer and thining the "brim" of the nut might get me there. Just thinking aloud here I might use the burrer to take some out of the back of the rod also to get the bearing to sit in tight to rod face which may bring that bit more... I think they might have a slight shoulder inside the brim to shaft on the bearing also...every little bit helps

I am keen on getting the cross heads done. Dave B actually gives you about 2 pairs worth so you can get them right! I think I need to do this then do the nuts so I can see how little room I have. Its the weekend again so I will spend some time doing it as the social sec. hasn't booked anything and the kids need a break as they both have colds

[DougN]

Well as I said above I intended to get some more done on the cross heads and the cylinders. i spent some of last night fettling the chassis to find any tight spots. Seems pretty good Not loose though... which I hope will come when I can run it in.

Any how the crank pins were modified thanks to Steve and Will's comments above. I should say that I use nail vanish as the nut lock rather than solder or a locktite product. the one problem that I didn't expect was the rivit to the front articulation joint ended up being a problem so i bent the connecting rods out the approx .2mm. Dave Bradwells generousity on the cross heads was appreciated 4 sets of etches are provided... so I made up all the sets but really only needed for first 2.

I will now let the photos do the talking
the cross heads made up.

Q6 cross heads.JPG

To show the lack of clearance on the crank pins and the cross heads

Q6 crossheads 02.JPG

Q6 crossheads 03a.jpg

Q6 crosshead 04.JPG

A photo after the cylinder wrapers have been put on and the glands to the back of the cylinders

Q6 Crosshead 06a.jpg

I think it is really starting to come together.... I am also getting more and more confident as I go as it is the first kit I have started and continued with in about 10 years. Oh that was a LRM N9...wonder where that is

[DougN]

Oh looking at that last photo it does show the loco cocking its leg.... the back axle doesn't have its spring inserted yet. I will be able to do that once the brakes are put on. This is going to take some thinking about as they have to be removable... the foot plate brakets double as outer hangers for the brake blocks so I will have to figure out a way to make it all come apart again!.

[DougN]

Well last night ended up a complete disaster.... Knocked the bottle of flux over So I ended up cleaning up the work area, all the kit bits, most of the tools etc etc etc. Not happy. (dried flower arranging was calling ) Now I need more flux too..(though what I have will probably see out another loco)

Any way what I was doing was putting the brake gear on the loco and getting the wheels to revolve when it is installed.GRRRR I have figured out that the tube and wire spigot won't work. The brakets that hold the brake gear also support the foot plate or worse are the braket that holds the tails of the slid bars. Therefore the pins need to go through the braket, through the top brake gear hanger, then into the chassis.... which is then supposed to support the springs to the axles.. any one say monkey puzzle Only 4 hands 2 with pliers are required. To add to the challange above the 3rd axles brake hanger rods can only be about 6 to 8mm long... There is an obstruction to full width. So my thoughts to make the brakes removable is to use the 0.7wire as a pin through the whole thing. This little lot is quite a challange to get to work as has been mentioned it needs to be able to be pulled down for painting. Umm tonight I may have another go.

Practise does help putting these things together. I seem to be getting quicker.

[Will L]

...what I was doing was putting the brake gear on the loco and getting the wheels to revolve when it is installed.GRRRR I have figured out that the tube and wire spigot won't work. The brakets that hold the brake gear also support the foot plate or worse are the braket that holds the tails of the slid bars. Therefore the pins need to go through the braket, through the top brake gear hanger, then into the chassis.... which is then supposed to support the springs to the axles.. any one say monkey puzzle Only 4 hands 2 with pliers are required. To add to the challange above the 3rd axles brake hanger rods can only be about 6 to 8mm long... There is an obstruction to full width. So my thoughts to make the brakes removable is to use the 0.7wire as a pin through the whole thing. This little lot is quite a challange to get to work as has been mentioned it needs to be able to be pulled down for painting. Umm tonight I may have another go...

Overcoming little difficulties like that are where one earners one's modelling spurs! Mr Bradwell clearly doesn't think break gear should be removable!

As a matter of interest, how is the driving wheel spring detail attached?

Will

[DougN]

Hi Will,

The springs use the same system as the S4 spring units. Ie a braket up or down(but up in this case) on the axle box. the spring is L shaped with the short leg of the L held in a set screw with a hole part way through (ie up inside the screw) so that it can be screwed up and down for more or less tension. The other end of the L is sprung against something like a Brake rod through the chassis, or frame spacer or some such. I will see if I can scan in a drawing for you. My day job is getting in the way of good modelling time.... Handing over a school building project today... you could say a bit stressful. But tonight could be another night to attack the loco building again. I am using Flymo's pick up jig of a 2mm axle to create the springy pickups.

[Paul Willis]

... But tonight could be another night to attack the loco building again. I am using Flymo's pick up jig of a 2mm axle to create the springy pickups.

Please don't credit me with this! It was Morgan Gilbert's original idea, and is shown in the Brassmaster's Black Five thread.

I simply said what a damn good idea it was

Cheers!
Flymo

[DougN]

Appologies to Morgan. Your discussion must have been the last one I remembered, Flymo.

Did some more on adjusting the chassis last night and installed another 2 of the pick ups. I have a curious thought on these as I am a great user of DCC for both my P4 and the RTR. (I can not see going back to the old DC at any stage) I need to put some interconnections into the pick ups to the Decoder . My gut feeling is to just use the wires off the decoder. BUT then I have the problem that I can not remove the motor with out a soldering Iron. Starting to think this really isn't a big problem as I always have a soldering Iron near by. Anyway the Chassis is getting so close I will have to start thinking about running in the motor and the grubbins. Once every thing is UP I guess I will spend a nice hour or 2 over at David Clifts running the loco along his layout which has a nice run of about 15meters before having to reverse!