Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Thanks, Dave. I'll have a look at the bevel gear mesh next time I have access to the gearbox. I normally use a synthetic grease (developed for the NASA space shuttle, I believe) on the gears and a synthetic car engine oil (a small jar given to me, years ago, by the late John Hayes) on shafts and valve gear joints, piston rods, etc.
Dave.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Having got the loco running reasonably well and just missing a few additional parts, I thought I might turn my attention to the tender. My previous Brassmasters tender, for Black 5, 45232, proved to be a bit of a challenge regarding the chassis, so for 46109 I decided to replace the kit chassis with the Lanarkshire Models CSB version. I've previously built a couple of these and found them excellent.
Having made that decision and purchasing the LMS chassis, I realised that the Brassmasters kit is one of the older, compensated, type rather than the later CSB version I had struggled with. Oh hum! Still, too far committed now to change track.
Of course, marrying the two makes together is going to require some modifications to the mating parts, since the LMS chassis is really aimed at converting RTR tenders.
I've made a start and here we see the LMS main chassis, with its High Level horn guides and axle boxes, together with the Brassmasters outer chassis etch and tank base plate.
Dave.
Having made that decision and purchasing the LMS chassis, I realised that the Brassmasters kit is one of the older, compensated, type rather than the later CSB version I had struggled with. Oh hum! Still, too far committed now to change track.
Of course, marrying the two makes together is going to require some modifications to the mating parts, since the LMS chassis is really aimed at converting RTR tenders.
I've made a start and here we see the LMS main chassis, with its High Level horn guides and axle boxes, together with the Brassmasters outer chassis etch and tank base plate.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
The tender inner chassis now has its CSB suspension and wheels. At present, it is sitting on temporary brass wire springs to avoid any risk of getting flux on the steel versions.
The only issue I've found so far is that the chassis is facing the wrong way round relative to the loco. I'll give that some thought before progressing further.
Dave.
The only issue I've found so far is that the chassis is facing the wrong way round relative to the loco. I'll give that some thought before progressing further.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Are those spring anchor pillars a custom design - they look to have a generous seating flange ?
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
No, they're the standard fittings supplied with the LMS chassis kit. Described as strongly made hand rail knobs, in the instructions, they certainly are that.
Dave.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Crepello wrote:Are those spring anchor pillars a custom design - they look to have a generous seating flange ?
Available separately:
CSB00 CSB Anchors, heavy duty knobs - pack of 10 £3.00
on this page http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_199.htm
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Dave Holt wrote:The only issue I've found so far is that the chassis is facing the wrong way round relative to the loco. I'll give that some thought before progressing further.
Hi Dave,
All looking great as per usual. I’m a bit perplexed by what you’ve said above. Please can you elaborate?
Cheers...Morgan
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
OK. I've obviously tried to be a bit too clever and my attempted humour has fallen short.
Most of my photos of the Scot have been of the LHS with the loco facing to the left. Whilst resizing the tender chassis photo, I realised I'd taken it facing to the right - hence saying it was the wrong way round.
I'm pleased to say that, after a major rebuild, it is now facing the same way as the loco - to the left. Fortunately, the rebuild didn't involve any soldering, screwing/unscrewing or any form of dis-assembly or re-assembly.
Dave.
Most of my photos of the Scot have been of the LHS with the loco facing to the left. Whilst resizing the tender chassis photo, I realised I'd taken it facing to the right - hence saying it was the wrong way round.
I'm pleased to say that, after a major rebuild, it is now facing the same way as the loco - to the left. Fortunately, the rebuild didn't involve any soldering, screwing/unscrewing or any form of dis-assembly or re-assembly.
Dave.
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
A most impressive rebuild Dave, and thankfully all is saved by such deft re-engineering.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Aahhh! Ok Dave. I’m with you now. My apologies for being a bit slow on the uptake. It’s been a busy week.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Had me fooled too Morgan !
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Me to.....I wish all rebuilds were that easy Dave
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Proof of the effectiveness of the rebuild is shown in the photo below.
More crucially, it shows that the Lanarkshire Models inner chassis has been successfully married up to the Brassmasters footplate and outer chassis. This was the main issue to resolve in the whole tender construction. The LMS inner chassis is really designed to fit the Bachmann RTR Stanier tender, where it fits directly under the tender footplate. The Brassmasters tender has the body, outer chassis and inner chassis as three separate units, held together with screws through three layers. To accommodate the LMS inner chassis, the top of the outer chassis has had to be cut away at each end, to allow the inner chassis to pass through, and will be soldered to the underside of the footplate, in effect becoming a permanent part of the body.
One new fixing screw position has had to be made in the footplate and a couple of dowel pins accurately locate the inner chassis relative to the footplate.
I can now either complete the LMS inner chassis or assemble the inner body of the Brassmasters kit. Choices, choices!
Dave.
More crucially, it shows that the Lanarkshire Models inner chassis has been successfully married up to the Brassmasters footplate and outer chassis. This was the main issue to resolve in the whole tender construction. The LMS inner chassis is really designed to fit the Bachmann RTR Stanier tender, where it fits directly under the tender footplate. The Brassmasters tender has the body, outer chassis and inner chassis as three separate units, held together with screws through three layers. To accommodate the LMS inner chassis, the top of the outer chassis has had to be cut away at each end, to allow the inner chassis to pass through, and will be soldered to the underside of the footplate, in effect becoming a permanent part of the body.
One new fixing screw position has had to be made in the footplate and a couple of dowel pins accurately locate the inner chassis relative to the footplate.
I can now either complete the LMS inner chassis or assemble the inner body of the Brassmasters kit. Choices, choices!
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Popped into Toddington today and was pleased to see some of Dave’s work on something a bit bigger. It’s a stunning restoration.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Thanks, Morgan.
Nice to see it in use and looking so spick and span. It was used recently for a visit by a Government Minister to have cab ride, so I suppose extra cleaning was applied.
Yes, I spent quite some time fettling up the internal cones in those injectors as a home work project. A bit heftier than those on my Taw Valley model, but using the self same tools!
Dave.
Nice to see it in use and looking so spick and span. It was used recently for a visit by a Government Minister to have cab ride, so I suppose extra cleaning was applied.
Yes, I spent quite some time fettling up the internal cones in those injectors as a home work project. A bit heftier than those on my Taw Valley model, but using the self same tools!
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
In the end, I opted to complete the inner chassis before thinking about the body.
Unless I've missed something, the inner chassis is now finished, ready for painting. Here it is from two viewpoints. I've just noticed that I've fed one of the CSB spring wires through the wrong hole in the LH middle axlebox tail, so that wheel is riding high. Easily corrected but it just shows how careful one needs to be on final assembly.
Here, the footplate has been attached and the outer chassis frames loosely placed. At the moment, it has a slight tendency to lift away from the footplate, hence holding the front end in the following shot.
Dave.
Unless I've missed something, the inner chassis is now finished, ready for painting. Here it is from two viewpoints. I've just noticed that I've fed one of the CSB spring wires through the wrong hole in the LH middle axlebox tail, so that wheel is riding high. Easily corrected but it just shows how careful one needs to be on final assembly.
Here, the footplate has been attached and the outer chassis frames loosely placed. At the moment, it has a slight tendency to lift away from the footplate, hence holding the front end in the following shot.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
I have to say DF's chassis go together well Dave and look great.
Robin
Robin
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
The basic tender body has now been assembled and the outer chassis attached. Still lots to do but it is progressing.
I notice there is a discussion about the merits or otherwise of "liquid lead". For the tender, I have fixed some strips of sheet lead to the inside of the base plate. I have attached it using 5 min Araldite and added a couple of bent wire retaining clips soldered to the base at each end - just as a safety precaution. I'd hate to have the lead rattling around inside the body if the glue gave way.
Dave.
I notice there is a discussion about the merits or otherwise of "liquid lead". For the tender, I have fixed some strips of sheet lead to the inside of the base plate. I have attached it using 5 min Araldite and added a couple of bent wire retaining clips soldered to the base at each end - just as a safety precaution. I'd hate to have the lead rattling around inside the body if the glue gave way.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Progress has slowed recently as I've been advised that sitting hunched over the workbench for long periods is exacerbating a lower back and hip problem that has developed in the last month or so.
Nevertheless, some progress has been made on the tender since the last posting. The rivetted overlays and much of the body detail has been completed leaving some further work on the front platform and the axlebox/springs to add to the outer frames. The following photos show the current state.
Side view:
Rear: I had an internal debate about the arrangement of data plates on the back and concluded that the tender allocated to 46109 in my period of interest probably had three plates covering number, building works and capacity. Some Stanier tenders only had two plates.
Front: Again I've made an educated(?) guess at the arrangements for the front platform. Scots had a higher cab footplate than many Stanier locos and their tenders had to have a higher platform, to suit. Some tenders, including those with the two preserved locos, were built with a high platform, but others, including mine, were modified from standard tenders by adding an extension to the platform. In side views, the original platform top plate can be clearly seen with the added part above. What I haven't been able to determine is whether the original top plate was left in tact or if the central portion was cut away. Arbitrarily, I decided to build the original platform and add a new portion on top, complete with intermediate support gussets, directly above the original ones below the original platform. Right or wrong, that's how in now is.
Dave.
Nevertheless, some progress has been made on the tender since the last posting. The rivetted overlays and much of the body detail has been completed leaving some further work on the front platform and the axlebox/springs to add to the outer frames. The following photos show the current state.
Side view:
Rear: I had an internal debate about the arrangement of data plates on the back and concluded that the tender allocated to 46109 in my period of interest probably had three plates covering number, building works and capacity. Some Stanier tenders only had two plates.
Front: Again I've made an educated(?) guess at the arrangements for the front platform. Scots had a higher cab footplate than many Stanier locos and their tenders had to have a higher platform, to suit. Some tenders, including those with the two preserved locos, were built with a high platform, but others, including mine, were modified from standard tenders by adding an extension to the platform. In side views, the original platform top plate can be clearly seen with the added part above. What I haven't been able to determine is whether the original top plate was left in tact or if the central portion was cut away. Arbitrarily, I decided to build the original platform and add a new portion on top, complete with intermediate support gussets, directly above the original ones below the original platform. Right or wrong, that's how in now is.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
A trial set up behind the loco (which I know is sitting a bit low on its springs) showed the raised tender platform to be too high. Scaling from a good, side on photo, confirmed that the extension was too tall compared with the original platform height.
Luckily, it proved not to be too difficult to un-solder and reduce the height of the extension part.
The lowered platform has now been re-attached and so I'm back where I was 24 hours ago, but with a better representation.
Dave.
Luckily, it proved not to be too difficult to un-solder and reduce the height of the extension part.
The lowered platform has now been re-attached and so I'm back where I was 24 hours ago, but with a better representation.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
OK, some of us (me) are more easily distracted than others (I'm sure there are some out there). Anyway, instead of completing the tender front platform, I decided to dabble with the drawbar and intermediate buffing arrangements. The drawbar pin has been made from two shorted 2 mm pinpoint bearings - the upper fixed to the chassis, with a deduced diameter 14 BA nut soldered in and the lower loose with a 14 BA countersunk screw to hold it in place. The intermediate rubbing block had been filed up from 1.5 mm thick brass strip and has been fixed to the front drag beam above the drawbar. This, together with its matching part on the loco rear drag beam sets the loco to tender spacing of a slightly over scale 3 mm. Probably should be about 2.67 mm but we do tend to use rather tight curves on our layouts.
Here's a view of loco and tender pushed together. I notice that the two rubbing blocks are not quite touching, so the gap between loco and tender will be very slightly less on final assembly. Draw bar still to do.
The front hole for the cast axlebox has been opened up to accommodate the Comet items I'm fitting in place of the Brassmasters original items.
Dave.
Here's a view of loco and tender pushed together. I notice that the two rubbing blocks are not quite touching, so the gap between loco and tender will be very slightly less on final assembly. Draw bar still to do.
The front hole for the cast axlebox has been opened up to accommodate the Comet items I'm fitting in place of the Brassmasters original items.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Apart from the vacuum brake and steam heat pipes under the chassis, the tender is now complete. The finishing touches were the chequer plate on the front platform and the axlebox/spring castings on the outer frames. The former has been spliced up from the spare loco fall plate etches and a section of the front platform etch from the tender kit. This etch, and the support, were too narrow to fit properly between the turned-in body sides and had to be split and the centre gap filled with spare etch. Luckily, I had used the alternate style of fall plates on the loco and the chequer pattern of the spares matched that of the platform. The joints are visible but will not be noticeable after painting and coupled to the loco. The kit provides separate axleboxes and springs. The former, in particular, were nor well cast and so I have replaced the lot with combined items from Comet. I found these to be easier to fit and align than the separate parts I've used on some previous kits.
A front three quarters shot showing the spliced chequer plate platform and the short, vertical wire guides that keep the cab doors close to the side turn-ins.
And a side view showing the replacement axlebox/springs fitted.
Still got the draw bar to complete.
Dave.
A front three quarters shot showing the spliced chequer plate platform and the short, vertical wire guides that keep the cab doors close to the side turn-ins.
And a side view showing the replacement axlebox/springs fitted.
Still got the draw bar to complete.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Nothing to show, but the intermediate draw bar is now made. Sadly, it claimed the life of my trusty, long serving 14 BA tap. It got partially jammed whilst tapping the bore of the tender half of the coupling and, in trying to free it, I must have inadvertently applied a bending action and it snapped off, flush with the end of the tube. By sawing through the tube wall, about 1 mm in, I was able to extract the broken piece of tap. The thread was deepened, very carefully, using the broken tap, now effectively a plug tap and the tender end of the drawbar was completed. It screws into the loco end, thus allowing the length of the bar to be adjusted in half thread pitch increments, leaving minimal free plat whilst allowing loco and tender to freely swing past each other.
Here we see the loco and tender coupled together after I reduced the thickness of the tender rubbing block, so bringing the loco and tender closer together and near to scale spacing.
In this rather cruel enlargement, the adjusting screw of the drawbar can just be made out. It looks like the tender platform is still too high, despite my reducing it. The loco is sitting a bit low at the rear end, so the mismatch won't be quite so bad after adjustment. The cab doors only just reach the tender sides, so some guide wires will be added to the rear of the doors to engage with the guides on the tender on curves.
Dave.
Here we see the loco and tender coupled together after I reduced the thickness of the tender rubbing block, so bringing the loco and tender closer together and near to scale spacing.
In this rather cruel enlargement, the adjusting screw of the drawbar can just be made out. It looks like the tender platform is still too high, despite my reducing it. The loco is sitting a bit low at the rear end, so the mismatch won't be quite so bad after adjustment. The cab doors only just reach the tender sides, so some guide wires will be added to the rear of the doors to engage with the guides on the tender on curves.
Dave.
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Looking great Dave
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Thanks, John.
The vacuum and steam heat pipes have been fitted to the tender chassis. Unfortunately, I had to compromise the pipe runs to miss the centre axle horns - not a problem on the real thing of course.
Haven't decided what to do about the intermediate buffers, yet. There are two holes in the tender drag beam but no buffers shown in the instructions or parts list. Not only that, but the holes align perfectly with the inner frames, so it is not possible to have any projection behind the drag beam. Sprung buffers appear to be out, so any representation would need to be retracted to allow clearance on curves. I'm not sure that would look any better than not having them at all?
Dave.
The vacuum and steam heat pipes have been fitted to the tender chassis. Unfortunately, I had to compromise the pipe runs to miss the centre axle horns - not a problem on the real thing of course.
Haven't decided what to do about the intermediate buffers, yet. There are two holes in the tender drag beam but no buffers shown in the instructions or parts list. Not only that, but the holes align perfectly with the inner frames, so it is not possible to have any projection behind the drag beam. Sprung buffers appear to be out, so any representation would need to be retracted to allow clearance on curves. I'm not sure that would look any better than not having them at all?
Dave.
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