Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

mikemeg
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Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:15 am

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

I'll start this thread by describing some history as to how the test building came about. Basically I volunteered to do a test build for the proprieter of North Eastern Kits, Arthur Kimber, when he introduced his LNER Q5/2 kit. He agreed to my doing a test build - this in 2011 - and I've been doing them ever since. I also volunteered to do a test build of one of London Road Models' kits a couple of years or so ago. Let's start with that one :-

The rights to this kit, the NER S3 or LNER B16/1 were bought by London Road Models way back a number of years ago. This as part of a wider purchase of the kits of Stephen Barnfield, including the ex-NER BTP and D17. These kits, except for the B16/1, have been on sale for a number of years. The B16/1 was not test built and so was not fully introduced into the range, though some have 'escaped' to be built.

One or two folks had a go at test building this kit but, for whatever reason, did not complete the test build. In an e-mail conversation with Jol Wilkinson, I almost jokingly offered to try a test build of this kit and Jol, taking my offer far more seriously, put it to LRM's proprieter who agreed. And so I undertook to test build this kit.

Along the way I did substitute some parts, added newer and more accurate castings, etc. but the model is very largely the kit. Some additions to the etches have been suggested and have been made to allow the depiction of the later LNER pattern 49a boiler; this because the original artwork is no longer available, so none of the existing etches can be changed.

So that is a brief history of this kit and this was the result, still in its 'naked' brass state and with some details still to be added - sand pipes, more lubricators, vacuum and train heating pipes, couplings. This model is very definitely the LNER/BR B16/1 rather than the original NER Class S3, by virtue of the chimney, dome, braking method (originally Westinghouse), buffing and draw gear, etc. all of which were changed/modified by the LNER but the original North Eastern Railway Class S3 can also be built from the kit

Cheers

Mike
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PeteT
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby PeteT » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:55 am

I enjoyed following the build on RMW, and look forward to it being available.

Am I right in thinking that the precise driving wheel isn't available, but Ultrascale have an option 1 spoke out?

Its just a shame about the prototypes cab side windows - as otherwise it's a very graceful machine!

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iak
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby iak » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:29 pm

Tasty beastie :thumb
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

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But I may choose to serve perfection....
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:30 pm

PeteT wrote:I enjoyed following the build on RMW, and look forward to it being available.

Am I right in thinking that the precise driving wheel isn't available, but Ultrascale have an option 1 spoke out?

Its just a shame about the prototypes cab side windows - as otherwise it's a very graceful machine!


You are indeed right about the wheels. The S3/B16's had a 5' 8" 20 spoke driving wheel with a 13" crankpin throw, in line. Alan Gibson do a 5' 8" 18 spoke driving wheel, as fitted to the K3's, which has the correct throw but not the correct number of spokes. I'm not certain about the Ultrascale 5' 8" wheel. I did use the Gibson wheel and the deficiency in spokes is really only noticeable when referenced by the balance weight profiles and positions.

In the original instructions, written by Steve Barnfield, he refers to the possibility that Alan Gibson might introduce the correct wheel, once the kit was widely available, though neither the kit, nor the correct wheel saw the light of day in an appropriate timescale to allow that to happen. I don't know whether the current owner of Alan Gibson has any plans to extend the range of wheels to include this or any other wheel not yet represented?

Strange, but many have referred to those cab side windows and never in complimentary terms. They're just too low!!

But the B16's, in all of their guises, looked purposeful and were really useful engines!!

Cheers

Mike

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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:11 pm

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER Q5/2

Now let's start the 'succession' of test builds which I've done for Arthur Kimber, for his North Eastern Kits range. Interesting doing these test builds, not least because there are ususally no instructions and no guarantee that everything (or anything) will actually fit.

Testament to how good Arthur is, as a kit designer, is the fact that on every test build, with no exceptions, a running model was able to be produced. Ok there may have been a few things which needed 'fettling' along the way, but they were fettled, reported, amended on the artwork and then the build continued.

So let's start with the very first (and by far taking the longest time) test build that I did for Arthur - the LNER Q5/2. These were LNER rebuilds of ex-NER Q5's with boilers 'rescued' from withdrawn Hull & Barnsley 0-8-0's which were then classified as Q5/2's by the LNER, leaving the unrebuilt originals to be Q5/1's.

This was also (not sure if Arthur knew this!) the first etched kit that I ever built.

While a few of these lasted into BR days, none ever carried their BR number so this was finished in a 'tired, rusty and generally kna---red' state, still with its LNER markings.

The trackwork, on this photo, is P4 Track Company, which I feared I may never be able to source again. Thanks to Andrew Jukes and others it is, thankfully, available once again

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:28 am

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

Sometimes, when the test build is done, some of the necessary castings may not be available as the masters are still being worked. This was true of the D20, when that test build was done. So the model languishes in its 'naked' brass state until the remaining castings are available to fit. In this case, this test build languished in that state for a year or two. When the castings were all available, then I took the opportunity to build another D20 from the production kit.

This kit allows the D20 to be built in any state from their introduction, as the North Eastern Class R, initially saturated, then some locomotives were modified with new mainframes by Vincent Raven. Under the LNER, superheating was applied to all locomotives necessitating a new, extended smokebox with Gresley snifting valve mounted on it. The LNER also removed the water pick up apparatus on the D20s' tenders.

Anyway, the test build was done with Worsdell frames and the later, production kit build was done with Raven frames. Both models intended to portray their prototypes as at mid 1950.

These locomotives were very long lived; many of them lasting for well over fifty years with the last one - 62396 - being withdrawn in 1957. This last survivor was also the only D20 ever to carry the later BR totem on its tender.

Both of these models are now progressing through the paintshop so are no longer in this 'naked' state. The final detailing - sand pipes, and the buffer beam 'furniture' will then be added.

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:33 am

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER N10

Here's another of the test builds done for Arthur Kimber's North Eastern Kits range. Again, this was done from the initial set of etches and was done without the benefit of any instructions, though by this time (around five years ago) I was reasonably 'au fait' with Arthur's design techniques and methodology.

Only twenty of these locomotives were built by the North Eastern; the N8's and N9's being more numerous. This design owed much to the North Eastern Class C1, LNER J25, having the same boiler, coupled wheelbase, driving wheel diameter, etc.

Most of my locomotive models are of prototypes which could have been seen in Hull in mid 1950. This loco - 69104 - was one of ten N10's allocated to Hull Dairycoates shed in mid 1950. This same shed also had eleven N8's allocated at the same time.

Unlike most of my locomotves, which are finished in a very weatherworn and often delapiated state - as was the case in mid 1950 - this one was finished ex-works.

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:01 am

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J25

The above post references the NER Class C1/LNER J25, so here's another of these test builds; this one done only last year. This is the LNER J25, in its final guise, with the later LNER 69a boiler, LNER group standard draw gear, etc.

As nearly always this was done from the first set of etches and without any instructions though I did have some diagrams for guidance. Testament to Arthur's kit design skill is the fact that every set of etches, I have received, has resulted in a completed model, which is quite a feat.

Still awaiting its weathered black and 'down at heel' weathering, this still looks reasonably pristine in its grey primer.

So, by this time, the thread already contains a fair number of the classes of the old North Eastern, which passed into LNER ownership. Still to come (and I've built them, sometimes more than one of them) are A6, B15, E1, G5, J24, J71, J72, J73, J77, Q5/1, Q7, T1 ......... Almost all (except the T1) part of Arthur's range of kits.

Cheers

Mike
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essdee
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby essdee » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:44 am

A lovely collection of models, Mike - and what a fantastic resource Arthur's kits are for the NER area modeller. Quite jealous....

Cheers,

Steve

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:52 am

essdee wrote:A lovely collection of models, Mike - and what a fantastic resource Arthur's kits are for the NER area modeller. Quite jealous....

Cheers,

Steve


LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5

Thanks Steve.

Yes, Arthur has really provided a fantastic basis for the NER area modeller. Along with London Road Models BTP, D17 and G5 and David Bradwell's J27 and Q6, then almost all of the NER classes, in service at the time of the grouping, are now covered. There are a few exceptions in the availability of etched kits, most notably the NER Atlantics, the Raven Pacifics, the A7 tank and the F8 2-4-2 tank.

Another couple of photos; these are of the three LNER G5's built earlier this year and still in their brass state - but not for much longer! The one with extended tanks, which was 67340, if not unique is a 'rare' model of a unique prototype. These are London Road Models kits, with a few modificatons, amendments and additions just to 'bring them up to date'. This kit was drawn and developed almost thirty years ago, by George Norton, and there are a couple of flaws which can easily be worked around. One of these G5's was built from one of the original George Norton kits, which I bought from Arthur, still unopened.

Once primed and painted, then the final details - buffer beam 'furniture' and couplings - will be added.

I'm now a septagenarian (though only just) so I don't know how much longer the eyesight (which is still very good) and the steadiness of hand (which hasn't yet diminshed) will hold up. But as long as they do, then I'll continue to build the locos!!

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:58 pm

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER A6

Then there are the A6's. Only ten of these locos were built and they all started life as 4-6-0 tanks - NER Class W. It became apparent, very quickly, to the North Eastern Railway, that these locomotives possessed insufficient coal and water capacity. So to increase both coal and water capacity, the NER rebuilt all ten with a lengthened bunker, as 4-6-2 tanks, totally transforming their appearance from their rather 'truncated' appearance as 4-6-0's.

During LNER days some had their boilers replaced with a later LNER designed boiler; some were superheated, some were fitted with LNER group standard buffers and draw gear, some had their NER smokebox door replaced by a more dished LNER door, some lost the capuchon from their chimney. So, by the post war years every one of the class was different in some way.

By the post war years all but one of these locomotives had been displaced from their original geography - the Whitby - Scarborough line - and were based at Starbeck or Hull Botanic Gardens.

So far I've built four of these tanks and I may yet build a fifth. The first was a scratch build - 69796 - but with one of Arthur's etched nickel silver chassis'. The remaining three are Arthur's etched kits including the test build for this kit - 69795.

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:03 pm

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J77

Here's another of the test builds; this one is the Worsdell cab version of the LNER J77. These locos were rebuilds of older 0-4-4 BTP's which had been superceded by the later G5's.

North Eastern Kits also produce the earlier Fletcher cab version of the J77 and a test build (and a production build) were done of those also. These three were not done as a batch; the Worsdell cab version was done first and then the two Fletcher cab versions. The three G5's, shown earlier, were done as a batch of three.

And yes, with the Fletcher re-builds some had square cab windows, others had round cab windows. At least one had both, with square windows on the front and round windows on the rear of the cab or, perhaps, vice versa.

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:48 am

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J72 Short Bunker Version

Here's another 0-6-0 tank; this one is the test build of the short bunker version of the J72, representing one of the first twenty North Eastern Class E1/LNER J72's to be built. Later locomotives had a longer bunker and a revised profile on their mainframes.

This one was built to represent one of the Newcastle Central station pilots, so is vacuum fitted.

Arthur (North Eastern Kits) has also developed a kit for the later, longer bunker version of this locomotive, which is now being finalised.

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:43 pm

BACHMANN J72/HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT

This is a Bachmann J72 body, much modified by the replacement of the buffers, tank fillers, handrails, cab fittings, etc. with a High Level Models chassis kit and is one of two such J72's (the other is an LNER built example - 68724) which I did to illustrate the High Level Kit for RMWeb. The loco is fitted with the High Level gearbox which is part of the chassis kit (108 : 1 ratio) and a Mashima 1020 motor. I weighted this loco as much as possible using sheet lead, resulting in a weight of around 6 oz. This will quite easily pull forty wagons and will pull them at a scale 2 - 3 mph.

The photo was taken before I fitted new, scratch built footplate steps; the originals were too thick. I wish I had replaced the footplate as the original is also far too thick.

Anyway for a 50p loco body, it didn't turn out too badly. Though the total cost was probably around £60.

On another thread, elsewhere on this website, someone commented that I seem to have captured the essence of the weight of some G5's that I built. On reflection, the capturing of the weight of steam locomotives is probably around how accurately (or not) that which lies below the footplate is modelled. They were all large pieces of engineering, 'broodingly massive' is a description I've often used. So the modelling needs to convey that massiveness but in scale.

Cheers

Mike
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Knuckles
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Knuckles » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:08 pm

Wish I had something useful and constructive to say in this thread yet I don't. That said I am very much enjoying seeing your creations, some lovely work here. Inspiring stuff. ;)

Drooling over your B16, may need a rag. Then again I've always been a fan of Vincent's locomotives.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:33 am

Knuckles wrote:Wish I had something useful and constructive to say in this thread yet I don't. That said I am very much enjoying seeing your creations, some lovely work here. Inspiring stuff. ;)

Drooling over your B16, may need a rag. Then again I've always been a fan of Vincent's locomotives.


Many thanks for the kind words.

Like millions of folk, for many years, I have had a fatal fascination for steam locomotives; since boyhood. Quite how such a relatively simple technology - burning coal to heat water and produce steam - could produce such beautiful machines I don't know but it has and continues to do so. When steam finally disappeared from British Railways, in 1968, did anyone imagine that forty years later we would see hundreds of them restored to working order and a brand new steam locomotive thrilling new generations who never saw them, and that ten years after that a dozen or more would be in build.

Most of the locomotives of the old North Eastern were relatively uncomplicated designs, worked well, and looked the part. Most were very handsome machines; some were just simply beautiful. But then didn't the Great Central, Great Northern, North British, LNWR, L&Y and a host of others also produce some lovely locomotives?

As a result of the first B16/1 build I recommended certain additions to the etches to cover some of the later LNER variations. Now I will have to build another B16/1 to check out those additions. This one will be one of the last batch, built by the LNER in 1924, with plain splashers and with the later LNER pattern 49a boiler.

I also want to build both the C6 and C7 Atlantics and one of Raven's Pacifics. Then there are the A7 and A8 tanks, J26/27's and, of course, the Q6. Lots still to do!!

Here's a photo of Raven's final creation for the old North Eastern; one of his Pacifics in full cry. Must have been quite a sight!

Once again, many thanks.

Cheers

Mike
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Knuckles
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Knuckles » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:25 am

The A2 unless I'm mistaken.

Always fancied a model of that one too.

Regarding the simple technology you mentioned, they are in a way yet as time went on things seem to have become very complex towards the end. The demeaning term 'kettle' for a steam locomotive I find quite accurate and funny.

It's nice to see more pre-grouping locomotives being modelled. It's one of my two main railway interests. BR I like yet also see way too much, no doubt because we tend to often model things from our youth and earlier periods are seldom remembered.
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Le Corbusier
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Le Corbusier » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:06 am

Knuckles wrote:..... no doubt because we tend to often model things from our youth and earlier periods are seldom remembered.

Yikes !!! :shock: ....I had no idea I was that old :D
Tim Lee

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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Knuckles » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:18 am

Le Corbusier wrote:....[snipped text]....


Haha, key component is 'tend to often!' :mrgreen:

Amongst other things I model pre-Grouping....yet I'm only 33.
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:42 am

Knuckles wrote:The A2 unless I'm mistaken.

Always fancied a model of that one too.

Regarding the simple technology you mentioned, they are in a way yet as time went on things seem to have become very complex towards the end. The demeaning term 'kettle' for a steam locomotive I find quite accurate and funny.

It's nice to see more pre-grouping locomotives being modelled. It's one of my two main railway interests. BR I like yet also see way too much, no doubt because we tend to often model things from our youth and earlier periods are seldom remembered.


One way or another - either kit built or, more probably, scratch built - I will build a Raven Pacific, which will be 2401 'City of Kingston upon Hull', though this is still well down the build program.

Eric Treacy, in the preface to one of his books, dedicated the book to 'all those who worked on, fired, drove, the great kettle on wheels, with its coal scuttle behind' and it is a very succinct description. But they were very lovely kettles and there were so many varieties!! And the later complexity was only the attempts to produce 'better steam' and to use it more efficiently, before the whole technology gave way to diesel oil and electricity.

Another photo, this of the second of the Bachmann/High Level Models P4 rebuilds of the J72. This one was also a Hull locomotive in mid 1950. This body was a gift, so the conversion was 50p cheaper than the first one.

All of these photos of the models are lit by an Andrew James daylight lamp, obtained from Amazon. I'm not advertising this, nor do I have any connection with that company but this lamp was one hell of a find, both in making them and especially in photographing them. It is the nearest thing to natural daylight I have ever seen!

Cheers

Mike
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BorderCounties
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby BorderCounties » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:55 am

Knuckles wrote:The A2 unless I'm mistaken.Always fancied a model of that one too.


Given the sheer length of the beast, you will definitely need "proper" curves for one of those!

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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:06 am

BorderCounties wrote:
Knuckles wrote:The A2 unless I'm mistaken.Always fancied a model of that one too.


Given the sheer length of the beast, you will definitely need "proper" curves for one of those!


And getting it on and off a turntable won't be easy, either; there weren't many long enough!! When they came into Hull in the 1930's, usually on quite menial freight turns from York, they used a triangle to turn, as did the Gresley A3's, from Leeds, in the 1950's and 60's.

Another A2 photo, this one of 2403 City of Durham, with a Gresley 8 wheel tender, making the thing even longer! This photo is courtesy Mick Nicholson as almost all of the prototype photos are.

By the way the system clock, on this website, is still set to British Summer Time, so is one hour fast!! I posted thus at 11.06!!

And a plea!! Since I joined this site, on October 22nd, I've made around 10% of the new postings to the entire site. So come on, there must be many more folk with something to show!!

Cheers

Mike
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John Donnelly
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:49 pm

mikemeg wrote:
BorderCounties wrote:
Knuckles wrote:By the way the system clock, on this website, is still set to British Summer Time, so is one hour fast!! I posted thus at 11.06!!


If you click on your name at the top right of the Forum and go to the User Control Panel -> Board Preferences, you can change your time zone :)

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:13 pm

John Donnelly wrote:
mikemeg wrote:
BorderCounties wrote:
Knuckles wrote:By the way the system clock, on this website, is still set to British Summer Time, so is one hour fast!! I posted thus at 11.06!!


If you click on your name at the top right of the Forum and go to the User Control Panel -> Board Preferences, you can change your time zone :)


Many thanks. So t'weren't system at all; t'were me what were wrong!!

I think I've done this change; now to check! Yes, I'm now on the same time zone as the rest of the UK - later edit.

Cheers

Mike

Knuckles
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Knuckles » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:25 pm

John Donnelly wrote:
mikemeg wrote:
BorderCounties wrote:
Knuckles wrote:By the way the system clock, on this website, is still set to British Summer Time, so is one hour fast!! I posted thus at 11.06!!


If you click on your name at the top right of the Forum and go to the User Control Panel -> Board Preferences, you can change your time zone :)


Knuckles didn't write that. ;)
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