Liquid Lead and flat lead

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John Bateson
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Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:39 pm

Liquid Lead and flat lead

Postby John Bateson » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:23 am

I have to add some weight to a few of my current ToDo list and am looking for a tidier solution to my older efforts at adding weight.

I have a couple of bags of liquid lead and I have read some caveats about using it in a white glue solution. I seem to recall that white glue could expand and cause some destruction.

Has any body used any Araldite (or alternatives such as Gorilla Glue) versions where the density may not be as large as with white glue but a careful mix should allow a goodly application of weight in appropriate areas.

And secondly, using flat lead which has been recovered from old building works, how could his be attached to the inside of, for example a tender, in a vertical position? Araldyte again?

John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...

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Noel
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Liquid Lead and flat lead

Postby Noel » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:12 am

I have always used Araldite [the proper stuff, not the 24 hour version] for attaching lead sheet to plastic wagons, without problems from the Araldite. White glue [PVA] and lead in combination cause a chemical reaction which results in Lead Acetate, a white powder which is highly toxic. It is this which causes the expansion over time. Contact is not necessary, by the way, the vapour from the glue is enough to cause a problem, as I found out after keeping stock in my home made wooden stock boxes for a while.

Having discovered the problem with PVA in the environment I now apply a further layer of Araldite over the outside so that the lead is fully enclosed. This I have done for quite a few years now, and it seems to have solved the problem; whether this is really necessary when using lead in a completely enclosed space such as a boiler or van, I don't know.
Regards
Noel

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David B
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Re: Liquid Lead and flat lead

Postby David B » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:25 am

The problem with expansion only occurs if the lead is enclosed, in which cases I have used old fashioned gum (just sufficient to stop the lead rattling) or no glue at all, wedging the lead in with off-cuts.

Elsewhere, I use sheet lead, cut to size and shape then held with a dab of No More Nails. I have not had any problems with this method.

bécasse
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Re: Liquid Lead and flat lead

Postby bécasse » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:50 am

My inclination with liquid lead would be to use artists' gloss acrylic varnish applied by dripping it on to the lead balls in situ (from a dropper or brush). The advantage of using artists' varnish, whether gloss, satin or matt, is that it comes in conveniently sized bottles, isn't expensive and is readily available from any shop that sells artists' materials. I have never had any problems with it so I doubt whether it contains anything untoward.

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Julian Roberts
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Re: Liquid Lead and flat lead

Postby Julian Roberts » Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:23 pm

I use 70deg solder to attach flat pieces of lead in brass vehicles. That'll keep your weight vertical OK though I'd be keeping weight horizontal and as low as possible. Liquid lead I find a real pain, runs everywhere at slightest opportunity but I filled up a brass boiler and capped it with solder on one loco. I distorted some plastic coal wagons somehow when glueing weight onto the floor so the sides bow inwards slightly - I think it was EvoStik I used: I avoid solvent type glue now on plastic for this purpose.

Philip Hall
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Liquid Lead and flat lead

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:27 pm

I use Super Steel 5 minute epoxy for attaching lead, either a flat plate on the floor of a vehicle, under a surface or on the inside of (say) a tender body. In the past (20 years ago) I used EvoStik and it’s still stuck, but as Julian says, it can deform plastic.

Liquid lead is awful stuff. I repaired an engine once and despite being supposedly sealed in place with Plasticine, it found its way out of all sorts of holes. And I dislike handling lead! I have, however, used it occasionally to pour down the chimney of a Hornby T9 to fill a void with a bit of weight, but restrained with a good blob of Blu-Tak.

Philip

Terry Bendall
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Re: Liquid Lead and flat lead

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:34 am

I have used liquid lead successfully on wagons. I usually construct some partitions using styrene sheet to keep it away from suspension and fix it with PVA Resin W woodworking glue. Since the spaces are open there is room for expansion but I have not noticed any problems with the type of glue I have used.

I also use sheet lead on occasions and usually this is fixed with screws, either self tapping ones or machine screws into threaded holes, I have some off cuts of lead sheet retrieved when some building work was done some years back but the oxide needs cleaning off. New sheet lead can be bought from a builders' merchants. The smallest width is usually around 150mm wide and a roll will last a lifetime - or share the cost with others.

Terry Bendall

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: Liquid Lead and flat lead

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:41 am

I use cheap superglue to fix liquid lead and sheet lead. The sort of stuff you get 6 tubes for a quid. Not had any problems.
If it's in a van I use a small screw to fix inside, an idea I copied from Mark Tatlow. I bought a load of different M2 self tappers of amazon for this purpose.


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