Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:54 pm
Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
My next task in assembling a Penbits Peak diesel kit is to short out some of the wheel treads to their axles. I am sure this has been discussed here - can someone point me to the thread please? The wheels are Ultrascale,
Thanks in advance.
John
Thanks in advance.
John
-
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:25 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
a search on here for "axle" and "shorting" is a good start....
Ian
PenBits Model Railways - Diesel bogie springing and detailing
PenBits Model Railways - Diesel bogie springing and detailing
-
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:40 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
Have you looked in Stores?
I know the EMGS do some very good shorting strips.
I know the EMGS do some very good shorting strips.
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
I hate shorting strips. They're OK if they fit securely onto the axle after they've been pushed onto it, but sometimes the fit, and therefore electrical connection, isn't good. I've tried several and, as Tim says, the EMGS ones have been the best. I haven't tried the Society (Mark Humphrys) ones and they look interesting and rather different from the others on the market.
Next time I need to short out a wheel I'm going to try something that I read about late last year - unfortunately I can't remember where, it could have been on this forum or RMWeb. It does seem both simple and cheap, with two sprung phosphor bronze wires making the contact between tyre and axle. On the basis that a picture speaks 1000 words, here's the picture that came with the article - I'm sorry that I can't acknowledge authorship:
download/file.php?mode=view&id=27532
Next time I need to short out a wheel I'm going to try something that I read about late last year - unfortunately I can't remember where, it could have been on this forum or RMWeb. It does seem both simple and cheap, with two sprung phosphor bronze wires making the contact between tyre and axle. On the basis that a picture speaks 1000 words, here's the picture that came with the article - I'm sorry that I can't acknowledge authorship:
download/file.php?mode=view&id=27532
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 848
- Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:19 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
David,
An interesting idea but you will have problems setting the back to back with all that wire and solder in the way. It should, however, be possible to recess the wire in the back of the wheel rim with some careful filing but I feel the wires are still going to make easily setting the back to back a problematic process especially on a small wheel.
A compromise might be fastening the wires to the shorting strip near the centre if you have a concern that the strip isn't making effective contact although I have not seen anyone on here reporting such problems.
An interesting idea but you will have problems setting the back to back with all that wire and solder in the way. It should, however, be possible to recess the wire in the back of the wheel rim with some careful filing but I feel the wires are still going to make easily setting the back to back a problematic process especially on a small wheel.
A compromise might be fastening the wires to the shorting strip near the centre if you have a concern that the strip isn't making effective contact although I have not seen anyone on here reporting such problems.
-
- Posts: 279
- Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:36 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
Both of my PenBits Peaks use the Humphries shorting discs on Ultrascale wheels. They are designed so that they are nicely centred on the right sized wheels and seem to do the job well as long as there is a good friction fit between the disc and the axles.
Once fitted be careful to set the back-to-back from the tyres not the disc.
Jeremy
Once fitted be careful to set the back-to-back from the tyres not the disc.
Jeremy
-
- Posts: 884
- Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 8:11 am
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
Here’s what works for me:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2669&p=23719&hilit=Split+axle+shorting#p23719
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2669&p=23719&hilit=Split+axle+shorting#p23719
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.
-
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 3:20 am
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
I recently completed a conversion of a Kernow NBL Warship using Ultrascale wheels. The RTR pickip arrangement was based on a conductive wheel and stub axle rotating in a brass bearing.
In the past I have undertaken similar conversions by adding sprung pickups; however, this time I attempted to try and retain the pickup arrangements by using conductive paint.
The stub axles were removed from the original wheels and fixed to the Ultrascale wheels with high-strength retainer. I turned some brass spacers as an inteference fit over the stub axles, these provide a much larger surface area for the application of the conductive paint, and also provide a conductive surface the bearings to come into contact with as the axle rotates.
Initially I tried conductive paint sold for repairing rear window heaters, despite many coats it never achieved sufficient conduction for the motor. I then came across a silver conductive paint from RS Components part No. 101-5621. With a few coats applied on both the outer and inner faces of the weels, a very low resistance was achieved, and the loco has worked faultlessly since. The Silver paint was sealed using a varnish before a more suitable colour was applied for the final finish.
The only real issue is that the paint had to be sent by surface post from Europe during the height of Covid, and took almost six-months to arrive on my shores.
Ultrascale wheels with conductive paint
Stevemcclary, CC BY-SA 4.0 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0>, via Wikimedia Commons
Hopefully the photo explains it all.
Steve
In the past I have undertaken similar conversions by adding sprung pickups; however, this time I attempted to try and retain the pickup arrangements by using conductive paint.
The stub axles were removed from the original wheels and fixed to the Ultrascale wheels with high-strength retainer. I turned some brass spacers as an inteference fit over the stub axles, these provide a much larger surface area for the application of the conductive paint, and also provide a conductive surface the bearings to come into contact with as the axle rotates.
Initially I tried conductive paint sold for repairing rear window heaters, despite many coats it never achieved sufficient conduction for the motor. I then came across a silver conductive paint from RS Components part No. 101-5621. With a few coats applied on both the outer and inner faces of the weels, a very low resistance was achieved, and the loco has worked faultlessly since. The Silver paint was sealed using a varnish before a more suitable colour was applied for the final finish.
The only real issue is that the paint had to be sent by surface post from Europe during the height of Covid, and took almost six-months to arrive on my shores.
Ultrascale wheels with conductive paint
Stevemcclary, CC BY-SA 4.0 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0>, via Wikimedia Commons
Hopefully the photo explains it all.
Steve
-
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:53 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
David Thorpe wrote:
Next time I need to short out a wheel I'm going to try something that I read about late last year - unfortunately I can't remember where, it could have been on this forum or RMWeb.
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... ment-63961
John
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
Re6/6 wrote:https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/entry/9365-converting-a-dapol-class-22-to-p4/&tab=comments#comment-63961
That's not the one I was illustrating - I'm sure it's effective but it seems a lot more complicated!
Winander wrote:An interesting idea but you will have problems setting the back to back with all that wire and solder in the way.
I don't see why it would be any different in that respect from using the usual shorting strips. Incidentally, if you want to see why the EMGS shorting strips are more effective than, say, the Bill Bedford ones, have a look at Tim V's postings in viewtopic.php?t=185
DT
-
- Posts: 1977
- Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
David Thorpe wrote:Winander wrote:
An interesting idea but you will have problems setting the back to back with all that wire and solder in the way.
I don't see why it would be any different in that respect from using the usual shorting strips.
I rather wondered whether wheels shorted out that way would go through P4 check rails?
Regards
Noel
Noel
-
- Forum Team
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
Noel wrote:I rather wondered whether wheels shorted out that way would go through P4 check rails?
Whichever variety of shorting strip you use the flange back needs to be cleaned off to the depth of the flange to avoid any problems with check rails, filing a groove in the flange back to take the strip/wire helps.
-
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:40 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
Illustrated on my workbench thread!
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=913&start=25
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=913&start=25
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)
-
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:49 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
The BB shorting strips can be made more effective by nipping the internal diameter with a Stanley (or similar) blade. The resulting nicks in the diameter, two opposing is good, three at 120 deg. is best, have the same effect as the EMGS fingers.
Richard
Richard
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:54 pm
Re: Shorting Out Wheel tread to axle
Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for help. I have experimented with the wire on the back of the flange approach, using two wires, and springing them so they grip the axle, per David Thorpe's approach. The Class 45 has American style pickups, so three wheels shorted on each bogie.
However, the space behind the hornblocks is very tight, and I will see what this approach is like operationally. Assembling the wires was very difficult.
I think I will experiment with Andy Walker's idea of using 5 amp fuse wire (or similar). My soldering skills are good enough that I won't need religion or alcohol, and I like the idea that the wire can be soldered to both the axle and wheel, and of course for disc wheels there is no issue with worrying about the spokes.
John
However, the space behind the hornblocks is very tight, and I will see what this approach is like operationally. Assembling the wires was very difficult.
I think I will experiment with Andy Walker's idea of using 5 amp fuse wire (or similar). My soldering skills are good enough that I won't need religion or alcohol, and I like the idea that the wire can be soldered to both the axle and wheel, and of course for disc wheels there is no issue with worrying about the spokes.
John
Return to “Chassis and Suspensions”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 1 guest