Alan Gibson Loco axles

bobwallison
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby bobwallison » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 pm

Thanks for the link Philip, not sure how I missed that while browsing Ultrascale's website.

Regards,
Bob

Philip Hall
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:07 am

It’s easy to miss, and I don't think it has always been on the website. I mentioned some years ago to David that I was seeking some decent axle steel, as the silver steel I had was very hard and didn’t give a good finish, and he said that he could sell me some and that’s where I’ve always got it since then. The range of diameters has been very useful when I have needed odd axle sizes, and it’s very nice stuff to turn.

Philip

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PeteT
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby PeteT » Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:05 am

Ultrascale also sell it in axle lengths, of various types:

https://www.ultrascale.uk/eshop/products/CAT019

This may seem overkill against cutting down a longer length, but in my opinion (and tool collection) is worth it at least for indented types. There is a text box for 'what is it for' which is really asking for the overall length over bosses - as has been discussed this varies over prototypes and model wheel manufacturers.

charleswrigley
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby charleswrigley » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:59 am

Phil Atkinson of Hobby Holidays explained all this to me some time ago. Ordinary stock steel rod is produced by drawing through a die which results in greater variation in tolerances which can result in the issues with binding described above. Only ground rod will guarantee any precision and consistency.

Charlie

Philip Hall
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:07 am

I prefer to make my own axles with turning centres, as I find that the Ultrascale indents are sometimes a bit too big. I am lucky to have a lathe (only a Unimat SL, probably only a bit younger than me!) and I have made some special jigs to ensure that even the tiniest indent is exactly in the middle of the axle end.

Philip

davebradwell
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby davebradwell » Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:30 am

Mr Enigma prompted me to dig out an old Gibson axle and it was plus a couple of tenths (of a thou') with a ground finish. I'm sure I've had some that are below nominal, too. Never mind, we like his wheels. Your reamer is clearly bang on spec, too, whereas my cheapie measures about half a thou' over - with micrometer, of course.

I looked online for some shafting but while there's plenty of "1/8" precision shafting", I couldn't find any where the seller was prepared to tell me quite how precise it is. I can remember seeing some years ago which was between 3 and 5 tenths undersize and this must be about as good as it gets for standard stock. Anyway, it seems Ultrascale can supply and, being primarily gear manufacturers, will know a thing or two about fitting things to shafts. Don't forget you want a flush boss for outside cyl locos, possibly except GW.

DaveB

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Tim V
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby Tim V » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:24 pm

I remember buying lengths of axle from Mike Sharman, it was beautiful stuff to turn. He said it had a high lead content.
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

Paul Cram
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby Paul Cram » Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:03 pm

After calculating the correct length I proceeded to part off an axle. Strangely enough it turned out the same length as the Gibson one. After some head scratching I realsised I had not taken the width of the parting tool into consideration. Is this how the Gibson axle end up too short I wonder.

Enigma
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby Enigma » Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:47 pm

I'll be very honest and say that the diameter of what is "1/8th of an inch" steel rod has not been a point of interest to me - until now! I've just accepted that if it says "1/8th of an inch" - then that's what it is. I've used AG axles, Sharman axles and ones I've turned up out of rod I've had 'in stock' and they've all seemed to work OK. For me, a vernier caliper (Mitutoyo - NOT digital) is more than adequate for measuring and it tells me that the axles and rod I use/have used is perfectly acceptable.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:31 am

Tim V wrote:I remember buying lengths of axle from Mike Sharman, it was beautiful stuff to turn. He said it had a high lead content


The addition of lead makes the steel easier to turn and hence such steel is known as free cutting steel. Historically, lead was the element used to improve machinability for its lubricating effect. Nowadays, lead-free grades have been developed using calcium, tellurium, bismuth, selenium, etc.
The sulfur ensures the fragmentation of the chip, lead reduces the friction between the tool and work piece and so extends the life of the tools, and the tellurium and bismuth further accentuate these characteristics.

All types of steel are an alloy of iron and carbon and some types have other elements added to give different properties. Mild steel, which is the general engineering steel has about 3% carbon content. Silver steel contains around 1 percent carbon and up to 0.40% chromium, which gives the steel its shiny silver finish. Depending on the type it may also contains other alloys, including up to 0.35% manganese and 0.30% silicon. There is no silver in silver steel. Both mild steel and silver steel are available as free cutting types.

End of metallurgy lesson.

Terry Bendall

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Horsetan
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby Horsetan » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:12 am

davebradwell wrote:.....If you're measuring your axle with a vernier, only a top grade branded one with appropriate manufacturers spec will get you within even a thou' of the correct size with most being up to 2 or even 3 thou' out, more if you've dropped it. That regardless of how many digits on an electronic display.


The other thing to note with a lot of the digital verniers (almost all made in China) is that they do slip, so you can end up with several different readings for ostensibly the same measurement that you're trying to take..... The one I bought from Maplins before they went down the tubes is good, but not that good.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

allanferguson
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby allanferguson » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:55 am

I have three cheap ones, and if they agree, that's good enough for me. I have a non digital, non electronic one as well, and I've almost forgotten how to use it.

Allan F

Terry Bendall
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Re: Alan Gibson Loco axles

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:52 am

A vernier gauge, either digital or manual has its uses. I tend to use one for checking the sizes on plastic or metal sheet or bar when I know I want it pretty accurate, a good example being the sides of a wagon body. It also gets used for a quick check of the diameter of a rod, e,g to check if the rod is 3mm or 1/8th inch although I can usually check using a MK1 eyeball. Otherwise I always use a micrometer. I only have manual examples of each and since I use them regularly taking a measurement becomes second nature.

There are many engineering textbooks that will explain how to sue them and no doubt Google will have the answer as well.

Terry Bendall


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