GWR 1361 CSB

Andrew Ullyott
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GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:48 am

Morning
I'm trying to get my head round the CSB plot for a 1361 GW saddle tank, as I've a couple of CSP chassis to build.
I'm struggling with the maths though. Can anyone assist please?

I've attached a screen grab from the GWR web site with the wheel base, 5' + 6'

Thanks in advance
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David B
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby David B » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:10 am

I, too, have one of these to make and will be interested in the answer to Andrew's question.

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Will L
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Will L » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:42 am

Can I suggest 8 - 10 - 10 - 14 - 10 - 7.5
See the picture for details. This is for a loco weight of 210 grams
GWR 1361.jpg

Spring sizes required by various weights
150 grams needs 9 thou
210 grams needs 10 thou
300 grams needs 11 thou

If that fowls anything you have to avoid inside the chassis let me know and I can move it about a bit.
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Will L
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Will L » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:25 pm

Did that first one quickly over breakfast this morning, realised later it could be improved upon but couldn't get back to my PC till this evening. The difference is marginal but does get the middle axle closer to but still slightly lighter than the outer two

I now suggest suggest 8 - 10 - 10 - 13.5 - 10.5 - 7
See the picture for details. This is for a loco weight of 215 grams
GWR 1361.jpg

Spring sizes required by various weights
145 grams needs 9 thou
215 grams needs 10 thou
320 grams needs 11 thou

Chose the spring size closest to the real loco weight.

If that fowls anything you have to avoid inside the chassis let me know and I can move it about a bit.
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Horsetan
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Horsetan » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:36 am

That looks like fun.

Another one for the Hawksworth 15xx (6'4"×6'6") will be equally tight.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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David B
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby David B » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:07 am

Thank you, Will.

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:33 am

Thanks Will.
I've built one of the CSP 1366 chassis (which I'm thinking is the same) and that went together fairly easily, but I compensated that one.
This one will be under one of the Kernow bodies (because it was a bargain), though I do have a complete 1361 kit (because I do like them!!) also.
I'll have a play and let you know how I get on.

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Will L
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Will L » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:07 pm

Good luck both of you

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Mike Garwood
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Mike Garwood » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:12 pm

Horsetan wrote:That looks like fun.

Another one for the Hawksworth 15xx (6'4"×6'6") will be equally tight.


Think I'll be sticking with compensation on mine.

Mike

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Will L
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Will L » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:08 am

Mike Garwood wrote:
Horsetan wrote:That looks like fun.

Another one for the Hawksworth 15xx (6'4"×6'6") will be equally tight.


Think I'll be sticking with compensation on mine.

Mike

Have to say I've never noted it being any more difficult to do a short wheelbase loco than a long one. Given my choice in prototype most of mine are small. At some point I have a J70 or two to do (i.e. 3'4"x3'4" total wheel bases 6' 8") Getting the CSB in is the least of my worries, the its doing the Walschaerts valve gear that size that gives me the horrors.
Image

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Horsetan
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Horsetan » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:23 pm

Will L wrote:.... its doing the Walschaerts valve gear that size that gives me the horrors.
Image


The 2FS band might be able to help....
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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David B
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby David B » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:53 pm

Will L wrote:Have to say I've never noted it being any more difficult to do a short wheelbase loco than a long one. Given my choice in prototype most of mine are small. At some point I have a J70 or two to do (i.e. 3'4"x3'4" total wheel bases 6' 8") Getting the CSB in is the least of my worries, the its doing the Walschaerts valve gear that size that gives me the horrors.


I made a 4 wheeled 'Toby' - the Connoisseur model Paul Willis was selling a few years ago - with CSB and it was the easiest chassis I have built.

As for Walschearts, Will, fear is the only thing you have to overcome. Cut minute pieces of solder, keep them in a pot and use a clean (not tinned) pointed bit on your iron. You might find paper washers help and once you get going, you will fly, I am sure.

davebradwell
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby davebradwell » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:05 pm

Well I always assemble my valve gear with filed down lace pins and there's no solder goes anywhere near any of the pivots. Much safer. Forked joints, though. Biggest trap is not getting enough swing at the joints, particularly the pair at the top of the combination lever and the combination lever/union link.

DaveB

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grovenor-2685
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:44 pm

For the Walshaerts, perhaps a look through Jeremy's GWR Railmotor topic will help.
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

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Will L
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Will L » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:07 pm

Thanks for all the J70 encouragement guys. I'm afraid my normal construction speed puts them some way down the road yet, unless I get shamed into it sooner I suppose. Given the normal cheat, a model of a J70 with even the right number of wheels underneath it has appealed for a long time.

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Will L
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Will L » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:08 pm

And look what's at the top of the Nucast list
see Nu Cas/Ks t reintroductions

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Paul Willis
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Paul Willis » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:07 pm

Will L wrote:Have to say I've never noted it being any more difficult to do a short wheelbase loco than a long one. Given my choice in prototype most of mine are small. At some point I have a J70 or two to do (i.e. 3'4"x3'4" total wheel bases 6' 8") Getting the CSB in is the least of my worries, the its doing the Walschaerts valve gear that size that gives me the horrors.
Image


Will,

As an entirely serious comment, have you looked at converting the Model Rail/Rapido RTR J70?

I had a good close look at them at the last Warley, and thought the valve gear was nicely delicate and a good representation. I didn't investigate further as there are no signs of a GER period livery appearing, so I can't speak to the practicalities of a wheel swap.

It looks a nice little model though...

http://www.modelrailoffers.co.uk/p/58012/MR-204-MR-Rapido-LNER-Class-J70-Steam-Locomotive-number-68226

Cheers
Paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Will L
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Re: GWR 1361 CSB

Postby Will L » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:44 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
Will L wrote:Have to say I've never noted it being any more difficult to do a short wheelbase loco than a long one. Given my choice in prototype most of mine are small. At some point I have a J70 or two to do (i.e. 3'4"x3'4" total wheel bases 6' 8") Getting the CSB in is the least of my worries, the its doing the Walschaerts valve gear that size that gives me the horrors.
Image


Will,

As an entirely serious comment, have you looked at converting the Model Rail/Rapido RTR J70?

I had a good close look at them at the last Warley, and thought the valve gear was nicely delicate and a good representation. I didn't investigate further as there are no signs of a GER period livery appearing, so I can't speak to the practicalities of a wheel swap.

It looks a nice little model though...

http://www.modelrailoffers.co.uk/p/58012/MR-204-MR-Rapido-LNER-Class-J70-Steam-Locomotive-number-68226

Cheers
Paul

Wasn't aware of them Paul. Certainly looks like a nice model, but I am a builder not a buyer* so I would leave the possibility of conversion to others.

* To illustrate, the last RTR model I brought and used was a Mainline J72 when they first appeared (70's). This was as a possible substitute for a Wills/Kays (?) J72 which was my first successfully completed loco kit. It looked nicer than mine but didn't run as well. I've improved my finishing since and neither J72 lasted on the layout all that long.


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