An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

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steamraiser
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An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:55 am

I am thinking of doing a P4 etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.
The reason for doing this is to provide a rocking front axle for improved pickup.

I have spoken to CG at High Level who has confirmed that at this moment in time a Peckett chassis is not on his list.

To that end I am looking to try and quantify what interest there would be in such a product.

a) How many people would be interested in a P4 chassis?
b) How many people would be interested in an EM chassis?

Which would you prefer:
c) A conventional etched chassis which requires a separate motor and gearbox of your choice.
d) A chassis that uses as many parts of the original Hornby model such as motor and gears.
This chassis may be of the fold up type.

Currently I am looking to use the existing rods and cylinder assembly. This option will definitely invalidate any retailers / manufacturer’s warranty.

e) Are there any additional detailing bits you would like included. I will not include any parts that are already available separately from other
manufacturer such as builder’s plates – Narrow Planet etc.

Gordon A

Armchair Modeller
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:28 pm

I was thinking of selling on the Hornby chassis, so as many as possible of the parts necessary for a replacement, except gears and motor makes sense to me. Shame about not including the builders plates, as the cost as part of a chassis etch would be significantly less than the cost of buying them individually.

Enigma
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby Enigma » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:04 am

What is the supply situation for Peckett bodies? Is the footplate part of the chassis as in many of the newer RTR releases? If so, then the full replacement chassis option may well become more complicated.

I would like one but I keep missing the pre-order stage and the next one to come out (Lilleshall Iron Co,) is plain black and has a 'simple' dome and safety valve which I don't find all that attractive. Perhaps I'll wait and see what it looks like in the flesh.

Philip Hall
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:04 pm

I would have thought that if a rocking (or moving) axle is required, it might be worth investigating whether the bearing slot in the chassis can be enlarged upwards a fraction, with possibly a coil spring to bear on the centre of the axle. A tiny bit of movement would be all that is required. Another way might be to file off the tops and bottom of the bearings where they hit the top of the slots to allow movement. Maybe also a rearrangement of the pick ups to have a lighter spring pressure so the wheels are not prevented from moving up and down.

Sorry if it seems I am trying to pour cold water on good intentions, and I must admit that I haven't (yet) taken one of these apart. However, when something runs as well as this, it seems a shame to scrap such a large part of the model. We usually no longer have to throw the underneath bits away as a matter of course.

Philip

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:00 pm

In general I have no objection to using as much of a rtr model as possible in a P4 conversion.
However:
a) On taking the chassis to pieces there is not enough clearance behind the slide bars.
b) A number of responses that I received on RMW indicated that a full chassis kit would be preferable which would leave the 00 chassis intact to be sold.

Currently I am awaiting a response from Ian Young of CSP as to the availability of a separate chassis kit from their W4 kit, before proceeding further.

Gordon A

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:27 am

I received two sample CSP chassis etches from Ian Young, one is Hercules and the other Henry Cort.
Lost wax cast crossheads and piston rods were included with the samples.
00, EM and P4 spacers are already included.

P1060294a.jpg


On an initial inspection I am happy with the overall design which is up to current standards. 

Given the work already put into this chassis kit I have decided to go down the full replacement chassis kit route on this project.

I have spotted a two or three missing components, the largest of which is the cylinder wrappers (Which IY had advised me of.), which will necessitate a separate photo etch tool.

I will check the two sets of frames to see which best matches the Hornby Peckett. I understand that may be Hercules.

My next move is a trip to Foxfield to take a few photos and dimensions.

Gordon A

David Knight
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby David Knight » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:28 pm

This looks very promising Gordon. Do you have any indication as to price and what gearbox/motor combination would we be looking at?

Cheers,

David

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:03 pm

David,

I have no idea as to cost yet.

I would think a gearbox from the High Level range with a small Mashima or similar motor.

Gordon

nigelcliffe
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby nigelcliffe » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:33 pm

steamraiser wrote:David,

I have no idea as to cost yet.

I would think a gearbox from the High Level range with a small Mashima or similar motor.

Gordon


High Level = fine, excellent gearboxes.

Mashima = given that Mr Mashima has ceased production, and all sizes are now "whatever stock someone has", I suggest you look at something else for a new design of chassis.


- Nigel

PeteT
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby PeteT » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:45 pm

Nigel, you are right - but thats hardly in Gordons remit. I'm sure Chris at High Level will have looked at the options for fixing points to suit alternatives - though patience may be needed as it doesnt come without a tooling cost, & some experimentation for a motor he is happy do his gearboxes justice.

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:26 pm

I have arranged to visit Foxfield on Saturday to photograph and measure the following parts of Henry Cort their W4 Peckett.
a) Wheels
b) Slide bars and brackets.
c) Crosshead
d) Cylinders
e) Brake arrangement at the back of the chassis.
f) Steam brake cylinder
g) Bottom of the firebox.
h) Between the frames.
The cab steps are already included in the kit.
 
Can any one think of anything else that may be useful.
 
Gordon

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BryanJohnson
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby BryanJohnson » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:09 pm

If it helps, here a photo taken at the recent gala.
Henry Cort Foxfield 20170714.jpg

Bryan

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:23 pm

Thank you Bryan.

Did you happen to take any photos of the back or other side?

Gordon

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BryanJohnson
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby BryanJohnson » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:52 pm

Hi Gordon,

No, just that one. It was dead outside the shed and I was leaning over the temporary barrier to get that photo.

Bryan

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:10 pm

Thanks Bryan.

Gordon A

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:50 pm

Ok we have some progress.
The chassis is etched from 15thou nickel silver. On my sample a couple of jobs had to be done:
Firstly the slots have to be opened out. I used a 10A scalpel blade and eye protection!
I managed to avoid snapping any blades.
Also the 1/2 etched recesses for pressing rivets out need to be deepened using a small drill. I think I used a 0.3mm.
This information has been fed back to Ian Y. I am not sure if it is due to being reduced from a 7mm kit, under etching or......
 
Having completed the above I assembled the five spacers, three on one side two on the other.
I also cut down the sides of the front axle cut outs for later removal.
But first make sure the top is still secured to the chassis. ​Yes you guessed right.

 
P1060429a.jpg


Here is the two sides of the chassis with spacers loosely assembled on my Avonside jig.
 
On assembly I was not quite happy with how the two sides were mating together.
I came to the conclusion that the tabs on the spacers might be too long. Better than too short.
 
P1060431a.jpg

So I added some strips of cork underlay to absorb the extra length.
 
P1060432a.jpg

The chassis soldered together.
The only mistake I will admit to is that I cut out the middle of the front spacer.
The front and back spacers are the same. Only the back spacer needs part of the middle removing to accommodate a gear box.
 
Lunch time!

Armchair Modeller
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:22 pm

Looking very promising :thumb

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:45 pm

Further progress.
I omitted to mention that the etched chassis needs to be shortened by a metric smidgeon more than 0.3mm to fit the Hornby body.
 
The reason I only partially cut out the front axle mounts was so that I could set the ride height for the bolt, around which the front axle rocks.

 
P1060435a.jpg


 
Not the best of pictures. As I had incorrectly removed a section of the front spacer I used a piece of a spare Comet P4 spacer in which to mount a 12BA screw.
I threaded a spare 1/8 inch axle through some good fitting top hat bearings then soldered the spare spacer / screw assembly in place.
 
Next I assembled a pair of High Level horn guides and bearings for the front axle. These will not be included in the kit.
Why High Level? Well Chris G has produced a clever one piece horn guide assembly that folds up without any use of solder or glue.
(I did adjust the left hand face before fitting.)
 
P1060439a.jpg
P1060439a.jpg (25.05 KiB) Viewed 4454 times

 
From left to right a standard thick 1/8 inch bearing, the horn guide etch and the two components assembled.
 
P1060442a.jpg

 
Picture of the chassis with the front cut outs removed and the horn guide assemblies.
 
Next the coupling rods. Normally I would assemble these first.
The coupling rods consist of two main layers with two additional layers at the front end.
 
P1060444a.jpg
P1060444a.jpg (39.21 KiB) Viewed 4454 times

 
There should be a rectangular piece that sits in the half etched recess on the front of the rod. This piece is missing from the current chassis etch, but will be included with some spares.
I spent ten minutes searching my carpet for the half etched piece.
 
Note Henry Court has different crank pin bearings.
 
The article in the Hornby magazine (Issue 115 January 2017) has some good historical phots of W4 tanks which shows the rectangular crank pin bearings as detailed in the etch.
 
Right lunch then the second coupling rod.
 
Gordon A

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:32 pm

Work has been progressing on this project.
This was the state of play in September.

P1060467a.jpg


P1060475a.jpg


P1060471a.jpg



From then A number of additional and replacement parts were identified and a trial etch has been produced which I received on Friday.

Peckett test etch.jpg


Sorry for the poor picture.
Included in the etch are:
Additional new parts:
A - Lower boiler barrel.
B - Smoke box back
C - Firebox front
D - Levers for steam brake cylinder
E - An overlay to the back from spacer which a rear screw hole for the body and holes for the hand brake and steam brake rods.
F - Wheel spoke overlays.
G - Cylinder wrappers.

Replacement of existing parts:
23 - Firebox and ash pan bottom. EM and P4
24 - Crank pin square brass bearing overlays.
71 - Middle frame spacer EM
74 - Leading coupling rod crank pin brass overlay
87 - Brake hangars front and back
88 - Brake shoe detail overlay.
91A - Front sections of the brake pull rods linking the leading and driven axle brakes.

My next job is to fit these additions to my current chassis.

Gordon A

David Knight
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby David Knight » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:54 pm

Excellent! :thumb :thumb :thumb Thank you for this Gordon.

Cheers,

David

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:11 pm

I am sorry to say after making some progress on this project I have hit a problem through lack of observation.
The CSP chassis is designed for an etched running plate. I had not taken into account the thickness of the Hornby running plate.
The CSP chassis could be modified by trimming 2mm from the top of the chassis, however that will remove the top location slot for the front and back spacers.

Not all is lost as I have obtained some further information and will be using this to design a chassis for the Hornby model from scratch.
This will take some time but should be better in the long run.

I am sorry this is taking so much time.

Gordon A

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:10 pm

This project has not died.

Completely new art work has been drawn for an etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

The art work has been completed after a few tweaks and has been sent off to the etchers this week.
I understand that the current turn around time is two weeks.

Gordon A

David Knight
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby David Knight » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:10 pm

Thank you for the update Gordon. What payment methods will you be accepting?

Cheers,

David

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steamraiser
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby steamraiser » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:27 pm

Hi David,

Cash, cheque, or bank transfer.

Gordon A

David Knight
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Re: An etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett.

Postby David Knight » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:01 pm

Thanks Gordon. Any estimate on the price and preferred gearbox?

Cheers,

David


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