Karl Crowther's MRJ 517

[Kos]

What a lovely engine - lucky you, Martin.

Anyone know what wire Karl uses for his motor leads "very fine multi strand"?

I've been using 7/0.1 half-amp wire of about 1.2mm overall diam, but like the idea of using something finer.

[martin goodall]

I think Karl used DCC decoder wire, but I must take a look inside.

(I may not have time to do this before the weekend.)

[John Bateson]

10/0.1 should be suitable and is 0.9mm diameter, available from Rapid Electronics.
Radiospares also do a finer wire 7/40 which is marginally smaller in diameter.

My NCE decoders are 0.8mm diameter.

You could send me a SAE and I will send back 2' of orange and blue from Rapid which should do a few engines. PM if this is an option for you.

John

[David Thorpe]

Express Models do 0.6mm diameter multistrand cable, available in 10 colours, £3.15 for 10 metres.
http://www.expressmodels.co.uk/acatalog ... able_.html

John's offer sounds more attractive, though!

DT

[DougN]

On first reading of the topic title I thought have I missed a couple of MRJ's from No 222! ... then reading through No it is about a GWR 517class... phew!

[David B]

I use decoder cable - 36awg (??) 0.5mm, 2amp. It is very flexible and easy to tuck away. I picked up 5m at a show for about £3 and it will keep me going for a very long time.

[billbedford]

For very fine wire, see the recent thread on E4um.

[grovenor-2685]

For very fine wire, see the recent thread on E4um.

Which suggests using the wire from discarded smartphone/I-pod etc. earphones.
Keith

[John Bateson]

Given that Farnells sell 30m of this stuff for £15.79
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=2291014&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-LISTINGS&gross_price=true&mckv=YKMwxwd8|pcrid|14164337469|plid|&gclid=CJHOw8W7_7gCFe_LtAodQggAPg
it does seem that there is a profit to be made from selling 2 m lengths for £3.99.

Now - where are my old earphones etc ...
Oops - that will encourage me not to throw all the junk out.

John

[Tim V]

Headphone wire is often made with fine thread inside, and is virtually unsolderable. They must have been lucky on E4um.

[Andy W]

Also All Components, who go to many model railway shows - http://www.allcomponents.co.uk/category ... s-896.html

[beachboy]

A variant I noted when building a Wolverhampton loco was the Vac Cylinder being attached to a bracket outside the frames under the bunker - drivers side. On earlier engines, the Vac Train pipe was mounted under the frames, as opposed to the drivers side valance, with a central pipe connected to the Vac. Pump.
The unmodified trailing wheels had the springs in the Cab. Akin to the 850, or Dean Goods.
Neither aspect incl. in the kit.
These and the Blowdown valve ( poss. removed in the last decade ) being the most visual items of many minor.

Karl in his excellent artical made reference to Guy's build per MRJ93. 'No.1468' appears in the current BRM.

When observing painted 517 models, I noted Alan Brackenborough painted two O gauge models. Both with yellow lined wheels. One, an auto painted c1906 per MRJ154. I have seen this lining on J. Armstrong & W. Dean engine pics, and those eminating from Wolv. at the same time. But not on pics of post 1900 517's. 'No.1160' per Lewis Auto. Vol 2 appearing freshly painted being an example. A mystery.

Steve.

[martin goodall]

Steve's note underlines the advice that has frequently been repeated over the years that one should model a particular engine at a given date, preferably working from photos taken at that time. We were very lucky that No.522 had been photographed twice by Bill Kenning at Radley in 1916, showing both sides of the engine. There are other photos of this engine taken before the 1st World War (at Abingdon) and in the late 1920s, which show significant differences in its appearance in both cases.

Karl's article in MRJ was intended to be accompanied by some prototype notes I had written about this particular loco, but (as is so often the case) space could not be found for this additional material, and so it had to be omitted.

The 517 class must be at or near the top of the list for the most varied class of locos ever to have run on the GWR. I don't think any one of these engines was exactly like any other member of the class at any one time! And as for changes to individual members of the class over time, it is a moot point as to whether any of these engines ran for more than two or three years at a time before having some alteration or other made to it.

[Kos]

It seems the majority view is decoder wire. I guess that's what Karl C used? A colleague here at the Missenden Abbey Summer School brought some along, so I'll give it a go. I also like the idea of anchoring the wire by drilling the pick-up pad, as in Karl's article. However, that's best planned at an earlier stage.

Thanks everyone for responding.

[beachboy]

Martin, thats a pity your prototype info. was left out. One of the strengths of earlier MRJ's, was articles combining the real thing detail with the modelling.

Does your Engine run well, being built as designed ?
Will it pull two Autotrailers ( or similar ) ?

Steve.

[martin goodall]

The model is still being run in, but seems a very smooth runner (Karl's engines always are). I haven't yet fitted couplings, so I have not tested its hauling powers properly, but it happily pushed a rake of several coaches around the layout.

It occurs to me that as the prototype notes I wrote are never likely to be seen in print, I might as well shove them in here, so here they are:

No.522 - Prototype notes by Martin Goodall

In selecting locomotives to run on the Burford Branch, I have tried to find engines that were shedded at Oxford or its sub-sheds in the relevant period, so that their appearance at Burford is reasonably plausible. It was on this basis that I chose No.522 to represent a ‘517’ class 0-4-2T running in the condition in which it would have been seen at the beginning of the 1920s. Two good photographs of this engine (one from each side) were taken by Bill Kenning at Radley (the junction for the Abingdon Branch) in 1916, and these show exactly what this particular loco looked like at that time. No.522 was still allocated to Oxford in January 1921, after which it seems to have moved away.

No.522 had the narrower (620-gallon) side tanks, which did not overhang the running boards. Later, at a date between 1925 and 1928 (outside the period modelled), wider tanks were fitted at Swindon with a capacity of 800 gallons.

This engine originally had a very short wheelbase (7’4” coupled, plus 6’3” to the trailing wheels = 13’7” total) with inside bearings to the trailing wheels. The wheelbase was lengthened in February 1884 (becoming 7’4” coupled, plus 7’8” to the trailing wheels = 15’0” total) but still retaining the inside bearings to the trailing wheels. The locomotive retained this wheelbase for the remainder of its existence.

All the 517 class locos were originally built at Wolverhampton, but this engine was one of those re-built at Swindon in 1884. So it ought, in theory, to display all the usual ‘Swindon’ features, but the only such items which were identifiable on this loco were the Swindon-style straight-backed bunker and the front steps under the running boards. It is clear from photographs of No.522 that the ‘footplate valances’ (i.e. the hanging bars below the running boards) were the shallow Wolverhampton type, with Wolverhampton-type rear cab steps (‘valance ends’), but (as noted above) Swindon-style front steps.

This loco’s last change of boiler type was to Type R4 (Class S) in June 1911, with raised casing over the round-top firebox. Further alterations, such as an enlarged bunker and the wider tanks, would not have taken place until 1925-28, after the period intended to be represented by this model. No.522 never acquired a Belpaire boiler. This loco was not auto-fitted, nor did it receive ATC gear. It was not among the minority of engines in this class that received top-feed.

In this period (c.1916 to 1921), the engine retained a tall chimney with a polished copper cap, but the steam dome and safety valve cover were painted green by this time. Also at this time, the numberplates were still placed in the middle of the tank, just to the rear of centre, with the leading edge of the plate almost touching the vertical row of rivets down the centre line of the tank. The livery was unlined green, with no company insignia or other identification at this time.

As modelled, this loco conformed generally with Diagram ‘A’ except that, after 1911, it had a newer Type R4 boiler, in place of the R3 type shown in that diagram. Diagram ‘J’ included some variant boiler dimensions, which might possibly have included the R4 boiler. Both diagrams showed a boiler pitch of 6’5” (compared with 6’7” for all other diagrams). The route availability colour was “Uncoloured”, so the usual colour dot is missing from the cab-sides. The power classification was “Ungrouped”, so there was no power group letter on the cab sides.

In addition to the two shots of No.522 taken at Radley in 1916 in the condition which the model is intended to represent, another photograph of the engine was taken at Abingdon in the early 1900s, showing the earlier R3 boiler, which had its steam dome placed slightly further forward compared with the later R4 boiler fitted to No.522 after 1911. Another photograph of the engine was taken in the late 1920s, showing the wider tanks and enlarged coal bunker. It retained its open cab throughout.

No.522 was withdrawn from service in September 1935.

Details

Karl is not primarily a Great Western modeller (although, having now built several GWR locos for various friends, I think he is becoming accustomed to its peculiar southern ways). So in order to help him sort out the myriad variations provided in the Malcolm Mitchell kit, I supplied Karl with some notes on the minor details which can be such a minefield for the modeller.

For example, on No.522, the splasher fronts were ‘recessed’ (or panelled), and so parts No.135 are mounted with the detail facing outwards. On this engine, the splasher base strip was plain, not riveted, so parts No. 137A were used for this purpose. This engine had the shallow Wolverhampton ‘footplate valances’ (hanging bars under the running boards) (parts No. 50 and 51). These had the standard type of Wolverhampton cab steps and ‘valance ends’ as portrayed on part Nos. 50 and 51, so the alternative type (52 and 53) were not required.

The sandboxes on No.522 were the wide type, which butted right up to the sides of the smokebox saddle, as well as being flush with the front of the smokebox. Part Nos. 109 and 110 were used to represent these boxes.

As mentioned earlier, the front footsteps fitted to No.522 were the Swindon type (part Nos. 57 and 58) and, perhaps rather unusually, these were fixed to the outside of the ‘footplate valance’ (the hanging bar under the running board).

One notable feature (touched on in the instructions, but not described in any detail) is the pipe which ran immediately under the edge of the running board (‘footplate’) on both sides of the engine. It was a prominent feature, and needs to be modelled. On the off-side (right-hand side) the pipes on No.522 had sharp right-angled corners at each end, whereas on the near-side (left-hand side) they had radiused corners where the pipe changes direction.

No.522 had a plain smokebox wrapper at this time (not riveted), so part No.125 was used for this. It also had the early plain smokebox front in this period, so neither of the two overlays was needed.

The toolboxes and tank fillers were not positioned as shown on the drawing in the kit instructions. Instead, the toolboxes are positioned towards the front of the tanks, and the tank fillers are located towards the rear of the tanks, just in front of the cab. Tank vents were not fitted in this period, so these items were omitted.

Who said all GWR locos were the same?!