LUBRICATION PROBLEM WITH PORTESCAP MOTOR/GEARBOXES

[martin goodall]

I have several Portescap motor/gearbox units (1219, 1616 and 1624), one or two of which have been fitted in locos, and the remainder are still in their original boxes.

I bought them new some 20 or more years ago, and recall that they were said by the manufacturer to be ‘lubricated for life’.

Even the motors which were fitted in locos have not turned a cog for many a long year, and when I looked recently at a loco-fitted example, I found that the gearbox had almost completely seized up. The final drive pinion could only be turned by hand with great difficulty. I briefly applied power, but the motor was unable to move the gears, and I switched off quickly to avoid risking burning out the brushes.

Close examination of the gearbox does not reveal any sign of the original lubricant (a pink-coloured grease of some kind, as I recall), and I concluded that the lubricant had entirely dried out, although why this should have the effect of causing the gearbox to seize up solid is a mystery to me, as the grease seems to have evaporated completely, leaving no residue behind.

I am sure I am not the only person to have experienced this problem, so my question is (a) What needs to be done to ‘flush out’ any dried-up lubricant grease from the gearbox (bearing in mind that the use of nylon bevel gears as the first stage in the gear chain would presumably be a constraint in the choice of solvent)? and (b) What lubricant should be used to re-lubricate the gearbox, again bearing in mind the presence of the nylon bevels?

[John Bateson]

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/m ... s05139.htm

IPA and then a little lithium grease

John

[Horsetan]

Aha, another RG4 strategic reserve! I always knew there had to be another one in existence!!

Lubrication. Do not - ever - rely on WD40 as a lubricant. If using it to clean out old expired lubricant, fair enough, but never let the stuff sit on the gears on its own. Use a clock oil to re-lubricate.

I've had very good results with Labelle 102, which is plastics-compatible, and viscous enough to stay on the gears rather than getting thrown off. It is also red-brown in colour, very close to the original lubricant. When under power, you will see the 102 appear to "stretch" over and between the gears like a drive belt when in motion. Really clever stuff.

----> Also click here for the Comet Models / Ted Scannell guide to keeping the RG4 drivetrain quiet

[Tim V]

Gosh, Portescaps, I remember those.

Got rid of all mine years ago. They made a bob or two on the bring and buy, and good riddance.

Yes I remember they used to seize up after a time. I used to clean them with lighter fluid, a good slosh around removed loads of crud. Then relubricate.

Of course, you could always offload them onto some unsuspecting soul.....

[Paul Townsend]

Got rid of all mine years ago. They made a bob or two on the bring and buy, and good riddance

I have several of these in running locos, many years on Dc, recently converted to dcc.
And a stock like Martin etc.

In June an old stock 1219 was installed in a new loco and ran trouble free, no seizure but drawn current gradually reduced while running in. I can't say how much of that reduction was due to crankpins and wheel bearings bedding down or the Portescap gearbox graese thinning in use.

I am intrigued that Tim is so anti these; apart from some being noisy I find them a convenient and satisfactory drive system still today, where they will fit.
And yes I do have experience of many other motor gearbox offerings previously and currently available, mostly inferior to Portescap with some notable exceptions like Exactoscale, Ultrascale and High Level.

Perhaps Tim will enjoy exposing his bad experiences that led to a purge?

[Chris Mitton]

IPA and then a little lithium grease

I suspect John means iso-propyl alcohol, but Greene King's finest India Pale Ale might be interesting......
Chris

[Tim V]

Perhaps Tim will enjoy exposing his bad experiences that led to a purge?

OK, I'll take the challenge. It isn't bad experiences, but something else.

Portescaps were one of those "myths" that were put around. Model railway myths are put there for elitist purposes, and to confuse.

Some of the Accepted Truths were:

1. Only Portescaps will give you good running locos.
2. All coaches need sprung suspension.
3. Pentrollers are the only controllers that give good performance.

Perhaps we ought to set up a new thread with some of these myths. I am sure the collected wisdom of the group could come up with loads more that have been debunked over the years.

[John Bateson]

new topic created - looking forward to this!

John

[Philip Hall]

I've never had a truly bad experience, but have had several engines come to me with Portescaps with a remit to take them out and substitute with a High Level or Branchlines box and a Mashima. Mostly it was because the owners could no longer stand the whine of the things, which varied from just annoying to very bad, mostly the later ones. Get a good one (usually early) and it was (and still will be) fine, but a bad one could be very stiff and a b.....r to control properly with any kind of a controller. Of course our DCC brethren will say they can help here! By the way, I still have a small amount of the proper RG4 lubricant which I use when one comes my way. I think I got it from Portescap themselves.

I tend to the view that good ones were very good in their day, but today are hideously overpriced on the secondhand market. One of Chris Gibbon's finest and one of the same from Mr Mashima will do all that you will ever need.

Philip

[Horsetan]

Where possible, I wouldn't use anything but the coreless motor / bevel-and-spur setup. I love reversible drivetrains, as I can test a chassis by hand, without having to remove the motor first.

Any new lubrication that the RG4 gearbox needs is competently dealt with by Labelle 102.

Gosh, Portescaps, I remember those.

Got rid of all mine years ago. They made a bob or two on the bring and buy, and good riddance.........

If you'd waited a while, you could have maximised your profits on eBay.

[Tim V]

Got rid of them long before Flea Bay came along.

As for the reversible drive, for testing purposes the resistance of the motor would be enough to upset any judgement of how smoothly a model ran. When I used Portescaps, I would unscrew the motor (only two screws) and test then. Now I use other gearboxes, I still ensure that the motor can be removed easily, and with the considerably less resistance of the gear-train, it is even easier to assess how well the chassis runs.