GW Wheel Press

[modelmaker87]

Hello everyone who uses the GW wheel press.

Gotta question and am looking for experienced users of this jig to provide me some feedback. be appreciated and my thanks in advance. My question then.....

Whe using the GW wheel press does anyone experience wheel wobble after installation of the second wheel...?

If so, how much (estimate the amount if you can) and is it everytime it is used or when or if wheel wobble is present does it happen everytime..?

Thanks, be looking for you gurus to give me some feedback.

Cheers, Tony

[Tim V]

Tony

Wobble in wheels is a product of the wheel not the press.

No press can guarantee wobble free wheels.

Wheels could be pressed on by hand and not wobble, IF they were good wheels, unfortunately, most of the wheels we use in 4mm don't offer that.

I spend a lot of time working on wheels, making sure the hole is in the centre etc etc, before the wheels get near the press.

[Mike Garwood]

I put both wheels on at the same time. Depending on the presence/thickness of a boss on the wheel and the thickness of the tyre, I'll counter it with a piece of suitable thickness plastic card. This ensures that the wheels are being pushed on the widest possible area and not the smallest ie, the boss of the wheel. Having said all that I still get wheel wobble from time to time. A certain person in my area group knocks them ( the axles) in with a toffee hammer and they go home central every time...and this using Mr Gibson's wheels! Frankly its enough to give up! But seriously, yes I get wheel wobble and its very, very frustrating...do you have a solution?

regards

Mike

[Jim Summers]

Well, I reckon there is some wobble, Tony, and I seem not to be alone.

I realise I need to be more precise and to compare Sharman and Gibson wheels in this respect.

With luck, during this holiday period I shall be using the GW Press, and will report on my Wobble Factor. The wobbleness will have nothing to do with seasonal celebrations, you understand.

Jim

[modelmaker87]

Tim, Mike and Jim,

Thank you all for your feedback. Tim and Mike with different perspectives and waiting on Jim for what he finds. Mike, I'm working on a design. Its not on paper yet, may never be. Since just about all my modelling bar the structures I build for the Wirral guys is US prototype modelling, so I have no 'feel' for installing P4 wheels but I do know that the new gravity wheel back to back gauge is incredibly sensitive to detecting wheel wobble. It was this that brought this problem to the fore and I have simply started to thinking about how it might be overcome.

So I thought a question here to find out how bad it is and what, if any, amount of interest there is out there to get more serious about it.

Tim, reading what you have said there, I take it that your view is that the rim of the wheel is out to the axle hole...right...? So no matter how you prep the axle and how careful you are pressing the second wheel in, aligning it and all, you think its impossible to keep the axle dead perpendicular to the wheel hole. Am I reading you right...?

Anyone else reading this thread and have experience in this please write a note or two about it. The more input the better.

Thanks, Tony.

[modelmaker87]

[quote="modelmaker87"]

Tim, reading what you have said there, I take it that your view is that the rim of the wheel is out to the axle hole...right...? So no matter how you prep the axle and how careful you are pressing the second wheel in, aligning it and all, you think its impossible to keep the axle dead perpendicular to the wheel hole. Am I reading you right...? quote]

Tim, on re-reading this I think I should have said....its not so much keeping the axle dead perpendicular to the wheel hole, but more a problem of the wheel rim not being perfectly aligned throughout its 360 degrees and also at 90 degrees to the axle hole.

In other words, the hole to wheel rim is not cast correctly, or the steel tyre is not located correctly on the plastic of the wheel. There's a few things here that need to be clarified. Trust you understand where I'm coming from.

Cheers, Tony

[grovenor-2685]

While there may occasionally be errors in the moulding process these would show up equally with the first wheel. I think it is more to do with the difficulty of holding the axle in place for the second press, and making sure you don't press out a new moon. After trying various methods I find I get best results using my drill press and a Bill Bedford quartering jig. The difficult bit is keeping everything lined up for the second wheel as its no longer possible to hold the axle in the chuck. (One advantage of outside frames).
Regards
Keith

[Will L]

While there may occasionally be errors in the moulding process these would show up equally with the first wheel. I think it is more to do with the difficulty of holding the axle in place for the second press, and making sure you don't press out a new moon

Don't get the idea of a second press Keith. The GW press I use is designed to do both wheels at once. The wheels locate on the sprung stub axles in the jig and are automatically square with each other. The axle locates in the both wheels and is then automatically square. All you have to do is squeeze. I do take the shape corner off both the ends of the axle to make sure the axle does enters the wheels properly. The adjustable end stops on the wheel press stub axles need to be set so the axle finishes flush with the face of the wheel. If your really brave and the axle is the right length you can use this to set the back to back, but I prefer to do it with an BtoB L gauge in place as well.

If you do one wheel first it will be difficult to locate that wheel accurately in the press as it can't locate on the stub axle. You then run the danger of the results not being truly square. Hence wobbly wheels?

Will

[Tim V]

The GW wheel press puts both wheels on at the same time.

The only wheels that are satisfactory for wobble and concentricity are Ultrascale. However, their range is limited.

So other wheels have to be used. For standard wheel diameters (for me) i have a couple of ring chucks that I use to re-centre wheels, non standard sizes can be chucked up in a 3 jaw, using a dial gauge.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the GW press, I like it. If your wheels are square, it will put them on square. As John B has said there are many problems with wheels, which are not solvable with a different sort of press.

[grovenor-2685]

You can fit the wheels one at a time, in which case the first is usually simple as its easy to hold the axle in drill press or lathe. The second wheel, you can't do that and need more care. Doing both at once then its effectively the second one straight off. I have a GW press and since I got it have been using 3mm axles that don't fit so its not been any practical use yet. The crankpin slots are also a potential problem as they have to be customised for every diameter of crankpin you might use. It seemed less trouble to take care with the drill press than to get the press set up to do the job.
I expect George can supply sets of alternative stub axles and crankpin slots to order, I haven't bothered.
Regards
Keith

[David Knight]

As I don't have a GW press I need to ask this; is it suitable for wheels other than drivers? I'm thinking of bogie and tender wheels that need to be assembled. This would also apply to diesel wheel sets as well as they all have the 2 mm axle in common.

Cheers,

David

[Tim V]

No.

It is set up for 1/8" axles.

It is actually bogie and tender wheels I find are the worst for eccentricity, I find I've had to recentre more of these than drivers.

[modelmaker87]

As I don't have a GW press I need to ask this; is it suitable for wheels other than drivers? I'm thinking of bogie and tender wheels that need to be assembled. This would also apply to diesel wheel sets as well as they all have the 2 mm axle in common.

Cheers,

David

As Tim V has confirmed, no. So David, what is needed is a component part of a wheel press that will accommodate different axle diameters. Not difficult to do at all.

Cheers, Tony

[Wizard of the Moor]

The GW Models wheelpress does have reversible stubs to accommodate 1/8" and 2mm diameter axles.

At least, the one that I have does...

[grovenor-2685]

I actually managed to find mine and it does also have the reversible pins, in fact they are currently set for 2mm axles so that must have been the last thing I used it for. Doesn't work if the axles have pinpoints though.
Keith

[Philip Hall]

I've used the GW jig ever since it first came out, and still consider it the only way to put wheels on an axle. Yes, you get the occasional wobble (which I'll come to) but the first thing to consider is that George designed it for Sharman wheels, and the crankpin slot is set for a 14BA screw as per Sharman. It works fine for Gibson wheels, which use an M1 screw, the metric equivalent. The pins are reversible, 1/8" one end and 2mm the other, and George let me have a second set which I turned down (with a file, perhaps I shouldn't admit that) to give me a 3mm pin. Needless to say, these pins should be a sliding fit in the wheel, not a tight fit. The crankpin slots are in a brass insert which is force fitted into the jig and cannot be modified. Ultrascale wheels are dead true and don't really need a press, but I use the jig to set the quartering.

As far as Gibson wheels are concerned, I've found that I get much better results by putting a generous chamfer on the axle, this ensures that the axle cannot take anything off the wheel as it goes in - if it does, then you'll need a new wheel or have to re-centre it-. Yes, this does result in a slight gap around the axle end, but this usually will be concealed by paint and weathering. The tool is designed to be used to put both wheels on at once, and I don't bother with packing, taking the view that if you're pressing the boss the rest of the wheel will follow. The face of the boss might not be absolutely flat in relation to the tyre, which might promote wobble, but the axle hole should be perpendicular to the tyre, and therefore the axle will be the same.

I don't bother with the press for trailing wheels; it's a quartering jig, and if they don't need to be quartered (outside framed engines and the like) I just tap them in with a small hammer, but always after chamfering the axle end. As Tim says, you do get eccentric wheels from time to time but given the very reasonable price I think that's OK, particularly as Colin Seymour is always happy to exchange a bad'un.

Having got them on and quartered, if they wobble a bit, well, just tweak them with the fingers or a pair of tweezers and that will usually sort things out to an acceptable degree. Bear in mind that the tyres on a Gibson wheel are only an interference fit, and can move during installation. If you've got a wobble it pays to check that the tyres are fully home on the rims. I measure the thickness of the boss and make the axles as precise a length I can, so that the B-B won't need any tweaking. Sometimes I don't succeed, and end up having to tap the axle in or out of the wheel to get it right.

I've put loads of wheels on with the jig, and, as I say, wouldn't use anything else. I can't see that a different design of jig could do anything to cure potential wobble problems, given the design of the wheels that most of us use with it.

Philip

[modelmaker87]

Thank you James, Keith and Philip and everyone who have posted responses to my question. The thought that the GW press doesn't locate the second wheel without wheel wobble is nonsense then...!! All a pair of wheels need is a tweak and one is good to go. Difficult for me to accept that as an engineer, but if that's what you steam engine builders do, that's sure fine with me. OK then, I'll shelve my ideas and move onto something else.

I thank everybody in explaining all of this, its appreciated.

Cheers, Tony

[Horsetan]

....A certain person in my area group knocks them ( the axles) in with a toffee hammer and they go home central every time...and this using Mr Gibson's wheels! ....

Just caught up with this thread. Would love to see this demonstrated on YouTube!

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I think one problem with wobble is that the hole in Gibson wheels is that they go on the axle too tight and tend to crack the boss, I ease the centre of the wheels very slightly with a 1/8 reamer and this soves the problem.

The main problem is that once on its almost impossible to remove the wheel from the axle once pressed on, Not too good if you want to put a gearbox of spacing washers on. There fore I have been thinking of making telescopic axles that can be diassembled and reassembled once the wheels have been pressed on.

David

[Dave Holt]

I use my GW wheel press to mount both driving wheels (1/8" axles) and carrying/tender wheels (2 mm axles).

As others have described, the driving wheels locate on the spring loaded stub-axles and both wheels go onto the axle together - up to an "L" back-to-back gauge in my case. Not only do I chamfer the axle ends, but also the bore in the wheel on the back. I also dress both front and back faces of the wheel boss using a fine file to remove any moulding burrs. This helps the wheels sit parallel to the face of the press. I stand the press on a flat surface to eliminate the slight play on the guide bars and gently squeeze the press together between my fingers after ensuring the axle is properly located in both wheel bores.
For 2 mm axles, I sit the wheel rims on top of lower guide bar and align the axle with the bar from above before pressing the wheels on. Not perfect, but I find this at least starts the wheels very close to being square to the axle and much better that just trying to fit them free-hand. Obviously, a second press with 2 mm stub axles would be better, but is beyond my facilities to manufacture.

Dave.

[Philip Hall]

Dave,

If you reverse the pins in the jig you should find that they're 2mm on the other end. Unless it's a really early one that is, when a phone call to George might get you some spares. You might need to turn them down a touch - I did mine in a drill with a file.

I've never had the problem with axles too tight that David has described, apart from the Hornby T9 conversion wheels. They really are tight, and once they're on you'll never shift the B-B setting, the tyres always move first. The last time I had some special shouldered axles made up at 1.82mm, but then I had the problem of securing them to the axles without slipping. Loctite didn't seem enough and I resorted to pinning. It's a very large, delicate wheel, with quite fine spokes and relatively bendy plastic. A 2mm hole is not the best idea, but that's the axle size in the chassis so you're stuck with it, unless you're confident enough to bore out the chassis bushes and the gear wheel. The Hornby wheel is made from an incredibly tough type of plastic and they're dead true, and if we could persuade them to make them for us with a P4 profile (yes, I know it's never going to happen) we'd be home and dry. The available alternative is from Ultrascale, which are also true and wobble free even with the 2mm axle; their plastic is much more rigid as we know and this no doubt helps.

Philip