Very, very small files

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Lord Colnago
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Very, very small files

Postby Lord Colnago » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:35 pm

Can anyone help me out with a slight problem?

I have two very small, fine files, one round and one square, both tapered. Their maximum diameter/size is approx. 1mm and they taper down to below 0.5mm. I can't be more precise as I've broken the ends off both. Which leads me to my problem. I want to replace them but can't find them on the internet and don't know what they're called. I've looked at H S Walsh's site, which is very good for that sort of thing, but nothing doing.

All suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks,

John.
The second best priest

Steve Sykes

Re: Very, very small files

Postby Steve Sykes » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:40 pm

Are they escapement files? I acquired a couple that sound very similar to the ones you describe from Eileen's a good few years ago. I don't know whether they still carry them.

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Lord Colnago
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby Lord Colnago » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:50 pm

Hi Steve,

I've just searched for escapement files on both H S Walsh's site and Eileen's Emporium and the results come up blank.

Thanks anyway for such a prompt reply.

John.
The second best priest

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:28 pm

John,

Cousins sell Escapement files but what you want may be in their "specialist file" section.

www.cousinsuk.com

Jol

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Tim V
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby Tim V » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:30 pm

Tim V

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David B
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby David B » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:38 pm

Tim V wrote:http://www.ottofrei.com/Glardon-Vallorbe-Swiss-Made-Escapement-Files/


The Glardon-Vallorbe square one is 2mm across. Derek had them at 0.8mm at it's broadest when I bought one a couple of years ago. I have not seen them listed on Eileen's website.

Correction, it is 0.95mm, not 0.8mm.
Last edited by David B on Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby Guy Rixon » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:43 am

On the Cousins site, "seconds hole files" in the specialist-files section. They are made for fretting out the hands of clocks and watches; escapement files are different.

Winander
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby Winander » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:10 pm

Will L commented about the value of these files, both their practical benefit and the cost! See here viewtopic.php?f=19&t=947&start=50#p7034

I would agree with others who have responded and suggest you look for seconds files - so named because they were used in the manufacture of second hands on clocks. Escapement files are, AFAIK, bigger.

A quick google turned up a 1mm square one tapering to a point for £27.45 http://www.eternaltools.com/square-seconds-hole-file. I turned up a few more hits (e.g. Cousins, Shesto) and the problem is that the descriptions are poor, so it is not clear what you are buying - probably as case for finding the product codes on the manufacturers site, before you start comparing prices.

If you find a good source, please let us know as I at least, need some.
Richard

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Lord Colnago
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby Lord Colnago » Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:44 pm

Winander wrote:probably as case for finding the product codes on the manufacturers site, before you start comparing prices.


Hi Richard,

Your tactic of using the manufacturer's code seems to be the best way to ensure that you get exactly what you want. Having said that, these files seem quite elusive (I want cut 4) but the site you recommended has some square ones in stock, with the round ones coming in by the end of this month.

Thanks to everyone who replied, its very much appreciated.

John.
The second best priest

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derekrussan
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby derekrussan » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:26 pm

At Eileens we sell the Cut 4 Vallorbe seconds file, part no VLP1480-2-4 at about 10% off manufacturers recommended priice. Still very expensive but an excellent file.

The round version that we also stock is much cheaper. The square one has over doubled in trade price in the last 5 years or so.

The reason they are not well stocked is that the UK distributor only sells them in boxes of 12. I would happily stock a wider range and possibly offer a better discount if I did not have to have such a massive amount of money tied up. Last time I tried to buy from a sud-distributor who appeard to be offering them cheap, it turned out the box of 12 they had bought lasted several years and the trade price had overtaken their retail and they had run out and could not suppot the price offered.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

Winander
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby Winander » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:53 pm

More on files.

There's an interesting piece over at the 2mm Scale Association http://www.2mm.org.uk/mag2000/files.htm

Shesto stock both a round and square seconds file and I think we still get a 10% discount.
I haven't found a keener price than the link I previously gave http://www.eternaltools.com/square-seconds-hole-file (listed as part ULP1480-2-4) that is £32.94 incl VAT and a round seconds file (part ULP1680-2-4) at £14.16 incl VAT. First class postage is £2.95. Both are cut 4 - fine. I have no connection to them and have not even been a customer.

The product numbers from Vallorbe are to be found in a pdf file available here http://www.vallorbe.com/Download.php?f= ... iers_q.pdf If you need to navigate to it select Downloads -> List -> Tools for Jewellers. I have to say the Vallorbe website is a pain to navigate and a lot of the navigation doesn't appear to work - I've tried three different browsers on Mac OSX.

The length is in inches/mm and excludes the tang.
A table in the pdf lists the teeth/cm as cut 2=38, cut 4=56 and cut 6=84.

LP1480 Square seconds hole in two cuts:
LP1480-2-4 and LP1480-2-6 being 2"/50mm long cuts 4 and 6.

Square_seconds_file.png
Square Seconds Files


LP1680 Round seconds hole comes in a bigger range of sizes and cuts:
LP1680-1,5-2 and LP1680-1,5-4 being 1.5"/38mm long in cuts 2 and 4
LP1680-2-2 LP1680-2-4 being 2"/50mm long in cuts 2 and 4
Round_seconds_file.png
Round Seconds files


Apologies in advance if I have misinterpreted/mangled this information.

Given the eye-watering cost, does anyone know of good quality alternatives?
Richard

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby Martin Wynne » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:03 am

Winander wrote:Given the eye-watering cost, does anyone know of good quality alternatives?

Cut a very narrow strip of wet-or-dry abrasive paper. Mount it in a piercing saw frame and use it very, very gently. It won't last long, but it costs next to nothing and is easily replaced. You also get a choice of grit grade, unlike a file.

Cutting abrasive paper (from the back) with a Stanley knife will soon blunt the blade, but it is easily resharpened on a disc sander or bench grinder (which may well cost less than those files). Wear eye protection.

Martin.
40 years developing Templot. And counting ...

Winander
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby Winander » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:22 am

Martin Wynne wrote:Cut a very narrow strip of wet-or-dry abrasive paper.Martin.


Where is the like button?
Richard

nigelcliffe
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby nigelcliffe » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:50 am

Martin Wynne wrote:
Winander wrote:Given the eye-watering cost, does anyone know of good quality alternatives?

Cut a very narrow strip of wet-or-dry abrasive paper. Mount it in a piercing saw frame and use it very, very gently. .......


Related method is to glue wet-or-dry abrasive to wood sticks - coffee stirrers and the like. Again cheap, choice of grades, easy to make into customised shapes/sizes.


I do have some extremely expensive small Swiss files. They don't get used very often because in 95% of cases, the abrasive paper does the job just as well. And, I can afford to abuse wet-or-dry with different materials, solder, filler, near soldering iron flux splatter, etc.. etc..

DougN
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Re: Very, very small files

Postby DougN » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:55 pm

I was reading last night the instructions to the Martin Finney A4 kit and he recommended glueing wet and dry to a sheet of brass.... I think this is another way to achieve a fine and thin file!

I have previously used the Icy pole stick and wet and dry... you can even write on the other end what grit it is!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling


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