Jubilee Layout Challenge - Q&A

[Terry Bendall]

I know of layout builders who hire a room at their local village hall to set up, work and run their layout and stock.

Yes they can, and I have done that in the past. However it is an additional cost which for those on limited incomes might be a deciding factor.

Thus, it will be permissible for an entrant layout to be exhibited at one show priot to Scaleforum 2026.

Thank you for the clarification Mark.

A query. Rule 12 states

"12. Depending on the number of entrants, those
adjudged to be the best and most complete layouts
will be invited to Scaleforum 2026. "

For the two previous layot challenges ALL of the layouts that achieved a reasonably complete state were invited to attend the final event, regardless of the quality or "best". This does not seem to be the case for this challenge. Is my interpretation correct?

Assuming the interpretaion is correct how will those layouts to be invited be judged as being suitable/appropriate to attend?

Terry Bendall

[petermeyer]

A query. Rule 12 states

"12. Depending on the number of entrants, those
adjudged to be the best and most complete layouts
will be invited to Scaleforum 2026. "

For the two previous layot challenges ALL of the layouts that achieved a reasonably complete state were invited to attend the final event, regardless of the quality or "best". This does not seem to be the case for this challenge. Is my interpretation correct?

Assuming the interpretaion is correct how will those layouts to be invited be judged as being suitable/appropriate to attend?

Terry Bendall

As an additional point to this, if there is an ability and intention to pre-judge layouts, why then are home-based layout excluded from the challenge?

[Mark Tatlow]

Terry,

We discussed this on Sunday and prior to this.

The criteria for entry were deliberately set as wide as we effectively could; particularly with regard to entrants not necessarily being members of the society. This was to attract as many entrants and interest as possible. Thus, until August next year we will not know how many entrants we will get (and hence some idea as to how many will be able to appear in September 2026).

Once we have a firmer idea on this point, and hence the implications on the nature and expense of the show, we will be in a position to answer your questions.

[PeteT]

There seems to be a bit of picking holes for the sake of picking holes - as I read it, and as Mark has alluded to, as this is being actively advertised elsewhere too then theoretically there could be 250 entries and thus there needs to be a caveat that not all of these could be fitted in, and expensed, at S4um. If a 'normal' number of entries come forward, and come to fruition, then all is well and all can attend.

Plans are afoot here, more anon.

[PeteT]

Plans are afoot here, more anon.

One question - it all needs to fit in 1 car. Can tables be requested, or do they need to be self supporting from floor level?

Cheers,
Pete

[Mark Tatlow]

Pete,

Yes tables can be provided. It would have been a good idea if I had measured them last weekend but didn't. They are approximately 700mm deep by 1600mm long. More than one can be provided.

I suspect you might need to arrive at a means to stop the layout skidding on them as they are formica covered so will a bit slippy - rubber feet?

The rules say "car or other similar sized vehicle" with the intent that a Espace type people mover or small van would be permissible but not something as large as a full sized transit as this is no longer a "similar sized vehicle".

[jjnewitt]

They are approximately 700mm deep by 1600mm long. More than one can be provided.

I think the big ones were a little deeper. My stand is 2'3" deep and there was something like 3" of table showing behind it so I'd say more like 800mm deep. There were shorter tables as well which might be useful in multiple. No idea on size though.

Justin

[Tim V]

This is supposed to be a 'challenge'.

I'm seeing elements of 'competition' now.

On the 'Model Railroader' one of their sayings is 'model railroading is fun'. Can we get the 'fun' element in somewhere?

[Jeremy Good]

Whether it is a challenge or a competition doesn’t preclude having fun while taking part. Indeed that is the whole point of this exercise.

Too legalistic an interrogation of the rules and purposes will erode the spirit of this challenge. Ultimately this, like any hobby, is meant to be enjoyable and the aim here is to promote some new exhibitable P4 layouts which, we hope, the owners will have fun building, operating and exhibiting

We are looking forward to seeing the entries arrive over the next few weeks/months. The first couple have already arrived…

Jeremy

[Martin Wynne]

The rules say:

"b. By 31 March 2026 ... ... and a video to demonstrate that the entirety of the trackwork is operable."

What does that mean in the context of a layout designed for battery/radio control with non-conductive track?

And should an entrant be having trouble getting a DC/DCC layout to work in time, would running a battery/radio control locomotive to prove the trackwork is operable be acceptable? If it would be acceptable for the one it should be acceptable for the other.

This could be very lucrative for anyone with such a locomotive and willing to hire it out.

Here's a fascinating video (first 15 minutes) from 2006 showing an 0 gauge model of Bodmin using the Red Arrow infra-red control system. The track is actually metal, but it didn't need to be, there is no wiring to it. The railway is fully signalled and operated with a lever frame and block instruments.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/455858581

Martin.

[jim s-w]

Where does it say electrically operable Martin?

Just read it as all the track is done and stuff goes over it, seems simple enough to me.

A plea to all members - Can we just get on with it and stop over analysing absolutely everything, just for once? This forum is rapidly harking back to the bad old days of e4um where it was all utterly pointless waffle and no one ever did anything!

[Daddyman]

If, as the rules say, the layout has to have "a footprint that is not to be larger than 18.83sqft", then why impose the additional size restriction of it needing to fit into a single car? What is it hoped that additional limitation will achieve? Isn't it conceivable that the two size restrictions (18.83 sqft and single car) could be mutually exclusive? - the height of the layout (pylons, towers, trees) could mean it needs more than a single car, and the layout would therefore be debarred while still conforming to 18.83 sqft. Was the car thing a criterion last time there was a challenge?

The single car thing is also very vague. An Espace has been mentioned. In the discussion thread there was mention of Urban Assault Vehicles - sorry, SUVs - when hopefully these b. things will have been made illegal by 2026.

If a layout meets the 18.83 sqft criteria, what does it matter how many cars it fits in?

[Phil O]

Probably the additional expenses required for extra vehicles attending the show.

[jim s-w]

Was the car thing a criterion last time there was a challenge?

Yep

the height of the layout (pylons, towers, trees) could mean it needs more than a single car, and the layout would therefore be debarred while still conforming to 18.83 sqft.

Or a little more consideration in how its assembled.

[Jeremy Good]

The car requirement is all about keeping costs manageable in order to make the layouts attractive to exhibition managers in the future.

It applied to both previous challenges resulting in some ingenious designs and is a critical part of the rules here.

Jeremy

[Daddyman]

The car requirement is all about keeping costs manageable in order to make the layouts attractive to exhibition managers in the future.

It applied to both previous challenges resulting in some ingenious designs and is a critical part of the rules here.

Jeremy

Thanks. So, not having been involved in exhibiting a layout before, I infer that exhibition managers pay travel expenses for layouts, and they'd find expenses for a car more attractive than those for a van?

[Martin Wynne]

Where does it say electrically operable Martin?

Just read it as all the track is done and stuff goes over it, seems simple enough to me.

A plea to all members - Can we just get on with it and stop over analysing absolutely everything, just for once? This forum is rapidly harking back to the bad old days of e4um where it was all utterly pointless waffle and no one ever did anything!

It doesn't, and I tried to ask about it in a light-hearted way.

It is only over-analysing if you choose to read it that way.

For others, finding amusing loopholes in the rules is all part of the fun.

For example, you could prove it actually fitted in a car by taking out all the seats. Load the car onto a trailer for the journey to the show. Unload it round the corner from the show and push it round into the car park.

Martin.

[Worzels Works]

For example, you could prove it actually fitted in a car by taking out all the seats. Load the car onto a trailer for the journey to the show. Unload it round the corner from the show and push it round into the car park.

Martin.

Some of us might not have a choice if I bring my old truck ('79 S3 landrover), I'm glad the rules don't say disqualification for arriving on the back of an AA lorry!

[jim s-w]

For others, finding amusing loopholes in the rules is all part of the fun.

Exactly - But if you do find any then its best not to tell the world about them in case they get closed.

For example, you could prove it actually fitted in a car by taking out all the seats. Load the car onto a trailer for the journey to the show. Unload it round the corner from the show and push it round into the car park.

If you could get it over the super vicious speed bumps that is.

[Noel]

So, not having been involved in exhibiting a layout before, I infer that exhibition managers pay travel expenses for layouts, and they'd find expenses for a car more attractive than those for a van?

It is the normal practice to pay reasonable expenses, though different organisers may have different ideas on what is reasonable. A car is likely to be owned by the layout owner, or friend, or second operator etc., so only gives rise to costs for petrol, whereas vans are usually hired, so have that additional cost, plus a lower mpg than a car, generally. Also vans imply a larger layout, with more operators and more accommodation costs. The size limitation here only refers to the scenic area, and doesn't include the fiddle yard(s) which could otherwise be quite sizable...

[Mark Tatlow]

Gosh, I go for a meeting and come back to a page full of messages.............

The point on presenting a video of the layout operating is intended as a measure of progress - for entrants and organisors to take stock from. Broadly speaking if it is not running by March 26, it is not likely to be finished by Sept 26. There is no condition on the means of operation and nor is it a question in the application form so you are free to achieve this as you wish - including during this video.

With regard to the mention of cars or similar sized vehicles, yes this is driven by the desire to ensure that the expenses do not get out of hand; as does the limit to there being two expensable operators.

[grovenor-2685]

If, as the rules say, the layout has to have "a footprint that is not to be larger than 18.83sqft", then why impose the additional size restriction of it needing to fit into a single car?

But you are misquoting the rules, they actually say,

The scenic parts of the submitted layouts shall
have a footprint that is not to be larger than
18.83sqft. Fiddleyards may sit outside of and
thus be in addition to this area, subject to the
layout complying with the requirement for the
layout to be transportable within a single car

so there is no size limitation on the whole layout including any non-scenic parts except for the stipulation of single car.

[Winander]

Urban Assault Vehicles

Love that . Consider it adopted.

I think there's an observation to be made that a car would mean no van hire costs. But what if I used my own van (being a horse box)?

finding amusing loopholes in the rules is all part of the fun.

Seems this ideas has legs.

[Tim V]

Seems this ideas has legs.

It isn't just the layout, I found that by the time you'd added on lighting rig, legs, chair to sit on, stock box (etc etc) you could double the space of the layout.

A horse box sounds good, but won't Dobbin complain?

[Daddyman]

Thank to all for clarification on the car stipulation - makes sense.