Correct Roof Colour?

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Serjt-Dave
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Correct Roof Colour?

Postby Serjt-Dave » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:08 pm

Continuing with my Bullied build or paint in this case. Whilst waiting for the body colours to arrive from Precision Paints I thought I'd crack on with spraying up the roofs. I'm using Precision Paint BR non maroon stock roof grey, but to me it look awful, this is even after a second coat. Any ideas?

Dave

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Silverking56
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Re: Correct Roof Colour?

Postby Silverking56 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:56 pm

Most carriage roofs do look awful unless they have just been wheeled out of the works.
Once they have been weathered I'm sure they will be fine :)

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Will L
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Re: Correct Roof Colour?

Postby Will L » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:21 am

Not sure there is one, unless brand new then matt white*, after that increasingly dirty grey, and all different. If you do a mix of matt/dull black and white, fresh mix for each time and don't worry about the exact quantities, you won't go far wrong. To be honest buying a can of roof grey and using that consistently is perhaps as close to being wrong as I can think of.

* Actually Matt white on the model would be too bright and even that would probably need a smigin of black to make a very light grey to look right.

Looking at the pictures again, they look like it's not so much the colour as an inconsistent level of Matt-ness, stir the paint harder?

ralphrobertson
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Re: Correct Roof Colour?

Postby ralphrobertson » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:30 am

Dave, I have used Precision Roof Dirt on my coaches. Will try and find a photo for you to look at. Their Frame Dirt is also good for underframes. If you prefer acrylics these colours are also available in the Lifecolor range.

Ralph

Philip Hall
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Re: Correct Roof Colour?

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:45 am

I don’t use an airbrush, and my method for vehicle roofs is a number of passes with cans of Humbrol 53 Gunmetal, Tamiya Rubber Black and Tamiya Linoleum Deck Brown, or something else rusty coloured.

I hold the roof or the vehicle with the side masked off vertically in my gloved left hand, then spray a base coat of the gun metal with two passes, generally no more, sort of a heavy mist coat. Next is the black to darken the Gunmetal a bit, followed by a quick mist of the brown, just a touch to muddy it up a bit. It’s never consistent, which is ideal for the slight variations we want. The spray pattern generally disappears as you go, and if still there (and you feel the need, I usually don’t) can be toned down with powders or a spot of dry brushing.

I use the same method for the base coat for underframes. Again, any spray pattern on these disappears with subsequent powders and dry brushing. I have even weathered complete tank wagons with cans, camouflaging any pattern with brushwork.

Philip
Last edited by Philip Hall on Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ralphrobertson
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Re: Correct Roof Colour?

Postby ralphrobertson » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:52 am

LMS diagram BR Suburban using Roof Dirt and Frame Dirt.

Ralph

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martin goodall
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Re: Correct Roof Colour?

Postby martin goodall » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:39 am

For what it's worth, I have always used a 50/50 mix of Matt Black and Dark Earth for carriage and wagon roofs. It seems a reasonable rendition of the weathered appearance of roofs after a period in service (as they "hover through the fog and filthy air" to quote the Bard).
Last edited by martin goodall on Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

ralphrobertson
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Re: Correct Roof Colour?

Postby ralphrobertson » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:41 am

Dave,

Here are a couple of photos I took last weekend at the Severn Valley of LMS coach roofs (as you do!) which might help. They are from the LMS set and the buffet car coach is rather more dirty than the others. I know they are from a preserved railway but colour photos of coach roofs are pretty much a rarity from the 50/60s.

Hope they help.

Ralph

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Correct Roof Colour?

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:19 pm

My recollection of looking down on passing trains from overbridges back in the 50s/60s is that the roofs were never clean, except the occasional ex-works example, as in the photos above but rather filthy with soot including a good supply of small cinders from the loco exhaust so quite a textured effect.
Regards
Regards
Keith
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Noel
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Re: Correct Roof Colour?

Postby Noel » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:25 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:My recollection of looking down on passing trains from overbridges back in the 50s/60s is that the roofs were never clean, except the occasional ex-works example


Agreed. Cleaning was by men [and women] with long brushes and a bucket of soapy water. Some sidings had raised staging, or it might be done from a station platform, but otherwise it would be done from the ground; there was no means of reaching the roof. They only did the sides; the ends weren't touched. Even after mechanical washing plants were introduced in the early 1960s the areas of the vehicle that were cleaned remained basically the same. The main difference was that the washing plants removed the paint as well as the dirt. [Coaches did sometimes appear with the zinc coated roof panels visible over part of the roof, because of loss of paint, but possibly not for this reason.]

ralphrobertson wrote:Here are a couple of photos I took last weekend at the Severn Valley of LMS coach roofs (as you do!) which might help. They are from the LMS set and the buffet car coach is rather more dirty than the others.


One of the problems with preserved stock, from a modelling point of view, is that they operate in a very much cleaner environment than that of the 1950s, and use a very different paint technology. The first significant Clean Air Act was in 1956, and it took a while to become effective. Britain generally was a much more industrialised country in the 1950s, and still fuelled largely by coal [not to mention domestic open fires], so atmospheric pollution was much worse than now. That atmospheric pollution was acidic, and the paint technology of the steam era was much more vulnerable to this than are modern paints.

ralphrobertson wrote:I know they are from a preserved railway but colour photos of coach roofs are pretty much a rarity from the 50/60s.


A number of colour albums have been published from the 1980s onwards, and often show enough of coach roofs to demonstrate that their colour was consistent across the coach. Roofs seem to have darkened from grey to black fairly quickly, as grey roofs are generally very much less common than black. Passenger vehicle roofs seem not to have gone beyond that point normally, unlike NPCCS where it was sometimes very difficult to establish what the colour was under the dirt, which presented a fairly uniform coating over sides, ends and roofs. They were never cleaned, of course, unless they normally ran in a passenger set.
Regards
Noel


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