Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Sapper
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:22 pm

Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Sapper » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:29 am

I have a brass loco body which is more or less complete and I have carried out an ultrasound clean to remove items of dirt etc. There are some stains on the brass and I was thinking of using Carr's Acid Dip and Surface Conditioner prior to painting. Which one should be used first? Unfortunately I cannot find any instructions on how to use these items - do you immerse them or can you brush them on, and for how long? Obviously a good rinse in water afterwards would be given and would it be necessary to use an etching primer?

Any information would be welcome.

Many thanks.

Sapper

dal-t
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:06 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby dal-t » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:48 am

As I understand it, the Acid Dip is to prepare for soldering or painting, the surface conditioner is to prepare for metal blacking - but no doubt someone will be along shortly to correct this (at which point I'll realise I've been doing it wrong for many years - been there, got lots of tee-shirts).
David L-T

Knuckles
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Knuckles » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:47 pm

I think I own more T-Shirts than yourself! ;)

I have Carr's Neutralising Rinse and Cleaner Degreaser. Any info on correct usage of these would also be appreciated as I brought them yonks ago as I thought they may be worth having and haven't used them yet.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

User avatar
LesGros
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby LesGros » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:17 pm

Sapper, and Gavin,

This link may help:
http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?r ... y&path=443

edited to correct name error
Last edited by LesGros on Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

Knuckles
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Knuckles » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:31 pm

My name's Gavin rather than Gary, but no worries, thanks for helping us. :)

Will have a good read.

Edit: Just remembered you sent me an email about DCC so I thank you for that too. I don't currently think it would be my choice though.


EDIT 2: Hmm, just had a read but it only covers the Neutralising rinse so now I'm wondering if the degreaser would be best used before of after. I'm thinking after due to grubby fingers.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

User avatar
Andy W
Posts: 870
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 8:11 am

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Andy W » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:21 pm

If the brass is simply discoloured I wouldn't worry about 'cleaning' it.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

Knuckles
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Knuckles » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:19 pm

So far all the brass kits I've soldered up had the obligatory fibreglass burnishing brush/pen treatment and along with that also goes the essential burn your eyes out using tweezers looking into the light game due to hard to see splinters. 8-)

After this I usually rinse with water and an old toothbrush and once dry I then liberally brush white spirit over it or give it a dunk for a bit. Once that's dried I usually start spray painting.

So far this has always given me good results, I just wonder if using some of these other products would do a better job for whatever reason.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

decauville1126
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:50 am

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby decauville1126 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:49 pm

I tend to use this:

http://www.priorypolishes.co.uk/shop/fr ... trate.html

well let down and sometimes left overnight in the ultrasonic tank after a few cycles.

BUT! Being ammonia based it can eat into the solder if over-cycled and I have seen joints look like a cratered lunar landscape and even come apart. It does do a great job though on cleaning tarnished brass frets but they need water rinsing then patting dry to prevent retarnishing.

Carr's stuff is very useful but I do find it a tad pricey, so worthwhile seeking similar fluids in larger quantities.

Knuckles
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Knuckles » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:11 am

I have found the Carr's Butanone 10000% useless.

It smells like Butanone but doesn't stick ANY plastic. No styrene, no ABS absolutely nothing. I exaggerate not when I say it has the glueing properties of water.

I think maybe it is a bad batch with a missing ingrediant or something because the Exactoscale Butanone I also have works wonders.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

User avatar
RobM
Posts: 953
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby RobM » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:30 am

Might well be a bad batch……I have just tried a new bottle bought last year and it works fine. Suggest you contact C&L if you bought it from them.
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

User avatar
Flymo748
Forum Team
Posts: 2415
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:35 am

Andy W wrote:If the brass is simply discoloured I wouldn't worry about 'cleaning' it.


That.

It's merely staining. If the model is chemically clean before painting, don't worry about it and don't bother.

Yes, it looks nice, and yes I clean my models during construction to stop the build up of crud. However as long as there are no remnants of flux, solvent, whatever on the model, the staining won't affect the final finish.

Here's my very stained Y14 after chemical cleaning prior to painting, and a picture of it painted. I must find time to line it and finish it off!

Y14 build 48.jpg


Y14 build 51.jpg


Y14 build 65.JPG


Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

User avatar
Andy W
Posts: 870
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 8:11 am

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Andy W » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:04 am

That certainly proves my point - with a lovely looking engine.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

Sapper
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Sapper » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:00 am

To all those who have replied many thanks - I must have missed the information on C & Ls website about the various cleaners etc. Plenty of food for thought and experimentation.

If I can get a finish as good as Flymo's Y14 then I won't have any worries.

Regards

Sapper

User avatar
jon price
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:34 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby jon price » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:11 am

What blue paint did you use for this Flymo?
Connah's Quay Workshop threads: viewforum.php?f=125

User avatar
Flymo748
Forum Team
Posts: 2415
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:47 am

jon price wrote:What blue paint did you use for this Flymo?


That is Precision Paint's GER Blue enamel. Since then, I've had a tin of cellulose made up in the same shade, and I'll be using the cellulose to spray locomotives in future.

However the subject of what GER Blue actually is has been the subject of some debate in the GER Society itself, and a few issues of the GE News ago there was a comparison between a period model in the NRM and the restored Y14 on the North Norfolk Railway. They were significantly different with the model being more purple in shade. However there is no saying (1) how accurate the model paint was in the first place and (2) how it has chemically changed over the last century.

So this is the Blue that I'm using, and I'm sticking to it!

HTH
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

User avatar
Re6/6
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:53 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Re6/6 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:48 pm

Flymo748 wrote:Since then, I've had a tin of cellulose made up in the same shade, and I'll be using the cellulose to spray locomotives in future.
Flymo


How was this commercially done for you Paul? This certainly seems to be the way to go. I've always liked the durability and finish of cellulose paint. Everything in the auto trade seems to be acrylic nowadays.

Thanks

John
John

dal-t
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:06 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby dal-t » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:09 pm

Re6/6 wrote:Everything in the auto trade seems to be acrylic nowadays.


I think if you find a quality restoration shop - rather than the standard bodyshop painters - they'll do it for you. Many owners of classics insist on cellulose as the authentic finish. I personally find it very sad every time I see a restoration 'acrylicised' - if it ain't right, it can't look right, and its instantly spotable.
David L-T

User avatar
Flymo748
Forum Team
Posts: 2415
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Carr's Acid Dip Surface Conditioner

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:30 pm

Re6/6 wrote:
Flymo748 wrote:Since then, I've had a tin of cellulose made up in the same shade, and I'll be using the cellulose to spray locomotives in future.
Flymo


How was this commercially done for you Paul? This certainly seems to be the way to go. I've always liked the durability and finish of cellulose paint. Everything in the auto trade seems to be acrylic nowadays.

Thanks


I only explained all of this yesterday over on Facebook ;-)

http://www.leonardbrooks.co.uk/

They are just five minutes away from me...

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk


Return to “Painting and Weathering”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest