MRJ No. 1 challenge

[peterbkloss]

As mentioned in my introduction I am rehabilitating some locos in advance of reassembly of my layout.

the first one I'm tackling is a GWR 14XX with Perserverence chassis and Airfix body, as per the example in MRJ No.1 all the way back in 1985: remember this?

MRJNo1front.jpg

and this is the last page of the article showing Ian Rice and Rod Neeps' efforts which I am trying now to reproduce:

MRJNo1-14XX.jpg

However, there are some differences, I didn't have a Portescap 1219, but at the time of first building I used a DS10 motor and fold up etched gearbox with Romford 40:1 gears. It ran moderately well on my partly built layout, this was around 2008 (!). As for the body, I decided a 14XX was not quite in the period or location I wanted to model then, so I hacked my 14XX Airfix body into a representation of the earlier 517, and ran it with a back dated Airfix Auto trailer as running around 1930. Like this:

Old-517.jpg

However, it still did not run *that* well and I rebuilt the drive train with a Mashima 10-20 and a Branchlines NY 36:1 gear box, and the chassis looked like this:

14XXchassis-start.jpg

However the rebuild ended up loosening the wheels on the axles, meaning it kept loosing quatering, and for some reason the internal resistence of the chassis was very high, problems that never got fixed before several moves, and this is what I am now tackling ...

[Tim V]

Of its time! The motor was probably undergeared. Perhaps a new High Level gearbox would improve things, and loosening the bearings will get rid of the stiffness. You may be able to recover those wheels, perhaps pin the driven wheels will mean it won't lose its quartering.

Basis of an article for the snooze there ...

[zebedeesknees]

Peter, I would refer you to much on that subject in the thread by Paul Willis:- viewtopic.php?f=90&t=6987
You may also find some items of interest on the CLAG site:- http://www.clag.org.uk/
I should declare an interest in the second link...

Ted.

[petermeyer]

MRJ has been quite an inspiration. That includes the article in the Compendium in producing more than one loco from the Finney Dean Goods kit that I have taken full advantage of.

I also took a lot of inspiration from Ricey's articles on the Mallard 517 in Model Railways all those years ago. This is one of my 517's that has a High Level 14XX chassis cut down to fit and a highly butchered Mallard body. The roof is not fixed as I may still fit a crew. I can recommend the High Level chassis that has worked well for me both in the building and the running.

517_1425_2.jpg

[peterbkloss]

Yes I am aware that a spanking new High level 14XX chassis kit would improve things hugely - but thats not where I am, I am trying to squeeze the best out of what I've got if possible, you may think I am wasting my time

[petermeyer]

Yes I am aware that a spanking new High level 14XX chassis kit would improve things hugely - but thats not where I am, I am trying to squeeze the best out of what I've got if possible, you may think I am wasting my time

I did the same with my other 517 where I re-used the M&L chassis that the kit came with. I did replace the Gibson gearbox with a High Level one. Although not state of the art there is much pleasure to be had breathing life back into these kits.

[peterbkloss]

OK folks this is what I have done so far to the chassis:

1. Fixed the wandering quartering - with super glue for now. I do have a completely new set of wheels if that doesn't work and I run out of patience. However I think I might have over-opened out the holes in the coupling rods, there is a lot of slop. Plus the rear driving axle boxes are a bit stiff in the hornblocks ....

2. fixed the most obvious problem with the chassis - you may have observed that the motor is only loosely held and the gear box has no reaction rod to restrain its movement about the axle - yes I have now read the advice in these pages on this issue and have secured the motor so it won't move and also reduced the end float of the motor shaft. The whole thing runs much more smoothly now. Not as perfect as a spanking new HL chassis and gearbox but good enough for now

3. Plus, not really directly to do with the chassis, paid greater attention to where the body may be interfering with moving parts on the chassis. This was more important than before as I have cut down the front of the frames, and lifted the flat base of the body fixing platform at the rear under the cab and bunker to get more realistic ride height

** A bee in my bonnet right now **

The instructions for the chassis kit suggest that its made to fit the airfix body. Nowhere does it say that if assembled as instructed it will stand 1.5 mm above the rigtht height. This I've learnt through bitter experience. But lowering parts of the chassis and raising parts of the inside of the body mean that moving parts and the body are more likely to intefere. Obvious really unless, like me, you are inexperienced in this area!

Anyway, pictures of the re-worked chassis, still waiting brake gear and the rather prominent sand boxes which I'm going to have to make as I've lost the castings ....

14XX-new-chassis-1.jpg

14XX-new-chassis-2.jpg

14XX-new-chassis-3.jpg

[peterbkloss]

The other thing is the body - I found that I had a partly dismantled Airfix 14XX body. I had stolen the cabroof/cab back/bunker top to help convert a mainline 57XX Pannier to an 8750 (don't ask it will feature in a future post). So I had to re-create the missing parts and remove /replace the really ugly bits (aka chimney and smokebox front) as per the MRJ article and Ullypug's RmWeb blog on the same subject. I wasn't going to have a 14XX at all as I thought it didn't really fit the location I am attempting to model, but then I saw a Bachmann A38 Autotrailer for sale and thought of reproducing the Clevedon auto train with 1463. So, once again a 14XX loco came top of the list again. Here are some photos of construction in progress:

The body at the start, ugly chimney and front, zero around the cab ...

14XX-bodystart1.jpg

hacking off the inside of the splashers under the boiler section

14XX-bodystart2.jpg

parts for the cab back

14XX-cab parts-1.jpg

installed in the body

14XX-cab-back-top.jpg

viewed from the rear

14XX-cab-back-rear.jpg

New chimney and smokebox door

14XX-newfront.jpg

trial fit of body, cab roof

14XX-trial fit.jpg

Front view with cab window glazing and trial fit of roof

14XX-frontvw-windowsroof.jpg

a bit of a jump ...

Now after fitting cab roof, painting and lining the LHS (a nightmare with Pressfix lining sheet, the bunker was interesting to do!

14XX-lined LHS.jpg

thats it for now, more to come ...

[davebradwell]

If the rods are very sloppy why not sort them out while you're at it. You could bush them with slices of 1.5/2.0 tube. Treat yourself to a 1.55 drill so you know what the clearance is and correct the centres while you're at it. In your last picture it seems from the spokes that the rod is too long this side.

DaveB

[Tim V]

I keep banging on about this, but one way to recover sloppy coupling rods is to refer to John Brighton's method of repairing them in S4N 142, May 2005. Just bush them but adjust the length of the distance between centres - it works and will transform a poor runner into a very good one.

[davebradwell]

It appears the very sound Brighton method requires etched rods that haven't been assembled. I was going to suggest a bush fitting technique from 60s copies of Model Engineer, should it be required.

DaveB

[Tim V]

It appears the very sound Brighton method requires etched rods that haven't been assembled. I was going to suggest a bush fitting technique from 60s copies of Model Engineer, should it be required.

DaveB

They assume that, but it isn't strictly necessary. It can be used to recover faulty assembled rods. Even easier with this four-coupled engine.

[peterbkloss]

Thank you dear friends for the most helpful suggestions over the rods - I have considered this and it is on the to do list though I can’t promise when - but you will know about it!

Kind regards, Peter Kloss

(This kind of thing is why I joined the society)

[Paul Willis]

Thank you dear friends for the most helpful suggestions over the rods - I have considered this and it is on the to do list though I can’t promise when - but you will know about it!

Kind regards, Peter Kloss

(This kind of thing is why I joined the society)

Morning Peter,

I'm really pleased to find that you are enjoying the conversation that comes as being a member of the Society. You may get slightly differing views, yet it will always be with the best intentions!

In case you hadn't discovered them yet, in the members' area of the website there is a full archive of Scalefour News available for you to read, download and keep. https://www.scalefour.org/members/newsarchive/

The specific one that Tim has referred to is here https://www.scalefour.org/members/newsarchive/dl.php?f=S4-142.pdf

Enjoy the modelling,
Paul

[davebradwell]

Of course whatever method is used to adjust the rods, it will be very difficult if the axle centres are variable. There was mention of axleboxes being stiff in their hornblocks earlier and this should be sorted first in case the cure shifts the centres. It's also worth checking that the crankpin bushes fit the screws closely and aren't eccentric - there's plenty of these around. Finally with the crankpin nuts tight the rods should have visible endplay on the crankpins.

You'll still have to bush the rods, too. You can't easily match loose bits to loose bits.

DaveB

[Hardwicke]

I did a quick re-wheeling job, inspired by the MRJ article. Ultrascale wheels, new chimney, new smokebox door, new con-rods. Same Airfix motor, same pickups . but moved out slightly. It runs like a dream. When I tested it on the Dukeries Area Group test track with an uncompensated Airfix Auto coach it ran faultlessly all evening and the test track was an oval about 20 feet long with gradients !

[Hardwicke]

I'm still puzzled by the toolbox locations ....

[Tim V]

I did a quick re-wheeling job, inspired by the MRJ article. Ultrascale wheels, new chimney, new smokebox door, new con-rods. Same Airfix motor, same pickups . but moved out slightly. It runs like a dream. When I tested it on the Dukeries Area Group test track with an uncompensated Airfix Auto coach it ran faultlessly all evening and the test track was an oval about 20 feet long with gradients !

I did one of those conversions - late 70s! The magnet on the motor caused havoc with the magnetic 3-link couplings I was using - the coupling would stick onto the back of the bunker!

[bécasse]

I'm still puzzled by the toolbox locations ....

Airfix located them alongside the splashers to provide clearance for the coupling rods.

One or two locos, 1442 for example, had the LHS toolbox located there but not the RHS one, and a handful of locos 4871/1471, 5810 and 5811 are examples, had both toolboxes in the "Airfix" position. 1471 didn't get its top feed until late though.

[Hardwicke]

I did one of those conversions - late 70s! The magnet on the motor caused havoc with the magnetic 3-link couplings I was using - the coupling would stick onto the back of the bunker!

[Hardwicke]

I'm still puzzled by the toolbox locations ....

Airfix located them alongside the splashers to provide clearance for the coupling rods.

One or two locos, 1442 for example, had the LHS toolbox located there but not the RHS one, and a handful of locos 4871/1471, 5810 and 5811 are examples, had both toolboxes in the "Airfix" position. 1471 didn't get its top feed until late though.

I've 4 Airfix 14xx's so one might end up as a 58xx now. I wish I'd bought one of Dave Jones one when I met him at Crewe, despite the complaints from modellers. I bought an Austerity instead with the underfloor stoker and gas producer chimney.

[peterbkloss]

I did a quick re-wheeling job, inspired by the MRJ article. Ultrascale wheels, new chimney, new smokebox door, new con-rods. Same Airfix motor, same pickups . but moved out slightly. It runs like a dream. When I tested it on the Dukeries Area Group test track with an uncompensated Airfix Auto coach it ran faultlessly all evening and the test track was an oval about 20 feet long with gradients !

That was the first conversion I did and yes it did run well. Sadly I was at the time desperately short of money and sold it at an expo-EM (this was in the 80s!)

Kind regards, Peter Kloss

[davebradwell]

All the more reason, then, for sorting out the chassis you've made and getting it to run even better than those.

DaveB

[petermeyer]

The benefit of the HL chassis is that the drive is on the rear axle not the front giving daylight under the boiler.

When I originally built my M&L 517 I drove the front axle with a Sharman gearbox via a flexi tube. When I rebuilt it I put twin beams on the rear driver and trailing axle and used a High Level RoadRunner with a small motor copying HL system. There was also room to get a small DCC decoder ahead of the motor within the boiler. I will put some pics in my workbench.

[peterbkloss]

Dear friends, I am amazed by the number of replies! I will be taking a couple of days break from the project but you’ve given me much food for thought

Kind regards, Peter