Wagon Workbench - 1970s - 1990s North Eastern region

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Triode
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Wagon Workbench - 1970s - 1990s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:39 pm

Hi All,

I thought I'd finally post photos of some of the projects I've had on the go lately.

First up is a BR 10t 'Starfish' ballast open from the Cambrian kit with various etched bits:

DSC_7034.JPG


DSC_7036.JPG

Next is a BR 12t 'Haddock' ballast open scratchbuilt in plasticard and ready for painting:

DSC_7045.JPG


DSC_7046.JPG

Also a Hornby 20t coke hopper converted to P4 and heavily weathered. The conversion involved moving the brake gear outward in-line with the wheels and replacing the safety loops and lever guard with etches. I also added rivet strips inside the wooden raves to correspond with those outside, as these are missing on the Hornby model and are quite noticeable when running empty.

DSC_7038.JPG


DSC_7043.JPG

Lastly is an Accurascale MDV. P4 conversion is simple for these; the wheelsets just drop in and there are wider brake shoe/yoke assemblies in the box to correspond with the wider gauge. Removing and reinstating the wire safety loops to allow the 00 brake gear to be swapped out was probably the fiddliest bit.

DSC_7048.JPG


DSC_7049.JPG

The scrap load is a DIY effort with all kinds of oddments thrown in and awaiting painting. In particular I've found its worth keeping the supports from 3D prints as they make quite convincing lattice girders. I have five more of these to do, with the aim being to recreate the scrap trains with ran in Sunderland circa the 1980s (an example here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... at-wagons/). Four out of the six total wagons will be converted to MDW types with through air pipes in addition to the vac brakes.

Speaking of the vacuum brakes, I've had a go at making these connectable using tiny Neodymium magnets as per an article by Jim S-W. They seem to work well; although they do become yet another thing to connect up in addition to fiddly 3-links! Next on the agenda is to try adding small stubs of steel wire beneath the headstocks to allow for stowing the unused pipe at the end of a train. I've also got some Tyne Dock-Consett ore wagons in the works with plans to give them a similar treatment: with three total pipes at each end of those wagons, it should certainly prove interesting...

More updates soon I hope.

Cheers,

Liam
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Last edited by Triode on Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Daddyman
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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Daddyman » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:54 am

Very nice. I notice your Haddock uses Archers directly on to plasticard, seemingly with no visible film. How do you manage that?

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Triode
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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:05 am

Daddyman wrote:Very nice. I notice your Haddock uses Archers directly on to plasticard, seemingly with no visible film. How do you manage that?


I apply the archer transfers in the normal way, then gently go over them with thin poly-cement. The glue dissolves the backing film and also bonds the rivets more strongly to the plastic.

Making the glue invisible is itself a problem on smooth surfaces, but for ironwork on wooden wagons it's ideal.

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby waveydavey » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:06 am

Nice work Liam, especially the scratch built Haddock.

I think the starfish might be a little overloaded and the wheelbarrow and shopping trolley on top of the MDV would be in danger of falling off when the wagon was moving. Imagine the consequences of one of them falling off the wagon onto a crowded station platform at 45mph. But, of course, if you've worked from a photo.....

Keep them coming.
Modelling Clackmannanshire Railways in 1975

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Triode
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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:42 am

waveydavey wrote:Nice work Liam, especially the scratch built Haddock.

I think the starfish might be a little overloaded and the wheelbarrow and shopping trolley on top of the MDV would be in danger of falling off when the wagon was moving. Imagine the consequences of one of them falling off the wagon onto a crowded station platform at 45mph. But, of course, if you've worked from a photo.....

Keep them coming.


Point taken regarding the MDV lol! The trolley and wheelbarrow are actually still loose and just posed on there for the photo. When it comes to glueing them in place I'll put them a bit lower down or in one of the other wagons.

For the starfish, I'm thinking of swapping the ballast load for demolition or excavation spoil. I can't imagine these old wagons were much used for ballast by the 1970s; although the photo I worked from did have a ballast load.

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby iak » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:32 am

Exceptional beasties Liam.
I do like the scratchbuilt Haddock. A very impressive model :thumb
More please; oh and welcome to the obsessive wagon building brotherhood...
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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Noel » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:22 am

Very nice indeed, especially the Haddock; I'm interested in the Hornby Coke hopper too, as I have some to convert idc. I'm a bit bothered about the MDV load as well, though. I agree with the previous comment about the security of the load, but I also have a concern about its content. Railway scrap metal traffic was generally bulk movements of ferrous scrap, mostly offcuts, swarf, etc. from engineering companies, to reprocessing locations, i.e. back to a steel works, but I question whether any steel works would accept such a load, as it is likely to contain plastics, non-ferrous metals, and who knows what else, and visibly contains rubber tyres. I doubt that they would be interested in sorting it, and would probably reject it out of hand, I think. It looks like the contents of a local scrapyard, whose traffic would presumably be by lorry in that era, and they would be sorting the materials before selling them on.
waveydavey wrote:But, of course, if you've worked from a photo.....
Regards
Noel

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby garethevans1986 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:59 am

iak wrote:Exceptional beasties Liam.
I do like the scratchbuilt Haddock. A very impressive model :thumb
More please; oh and welcome to the obsessive wagon building brotherhood...


Was about to tag you in this topic Iain!

Very nice wagons!

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Daddyman » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:51 pm

Triode wrote:
Daddyman wrote:Very nice. I notice your Haddock uses Archers directly on to plasticard, seemingly with no visible film. How do you manage that?


I apply the archer transfers in the normal way, then gently go over them with thin poly-cement. The glue dissolves the backing film and also bonds the rivets more strongly to the plastic.

Making the glue invisible is itself a problem on smooth surfaces, but for ironwork on wooden wagons it's ideal.

Many thanks! D-Limonene might be a better option?

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:06 pm

Noel wrote:Very nice indeed, especially the Haddock; I'm interested in the Hornby Coke hopper too, as I have some to convert idc. I'm a bit bothered about the MDV load as well, though. I agree with the previous comment about the security of the load, but I also have a concern about its content. Railway scrap metal traffic was generally bulk movements of ferrous scrap, mostly offcuts, swarf, etc. from engineering companies, to reprocessing locations, i.e. back to a steel works, but I question whether any steel works would accept such a load, as it is likely to contain plastics, non-ferrous metals, and who knows what else, and visibly contains rubber tyres. I doubt that they would be interested in sorting it, and would probably reject it out of hand, I think. It looks like the contents of a local scrapyard, whose traffic would presumably be by lorry in that era, and they would be sorting the materials before selling them on.
waveydavey wrote:But, of course, if you've worked from a photo.....


Thanks. I may have taken some liberties with the scrap load to be honest. The only photo I've seen of the working through Sunderland shows various bits of pipe and metal offcuts, but there isn't a top-down view to give more details unfortunately. I believe it was a short trip working to and from a local scrapyard.

I was weirdly fascinated by the many scrapyards along the line to Newcastle as a kid (there was one around the Felling area called something like 'Beetle Bits' as I recall), so I couldn't resist embellishing the loads somewhat :D . They're removable in case I change my mind later.

Cheers,

Liam

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:48 pm

A few more.

First up a 56t Consett iron ore hopper from the Bradwell kit; a joy to build but being the first of nine there's a lot of work still to do... This one is actually almost through the paint shop as I write. I'm posting these photos way out of sequence.
DSC_6912.JPG


Next is an NCB 21t coal hopper based on a prototype used at Easington Colliery. The model is a Parkside/Peco body on a Rumney models chassis. This one is also well into the painting process and Ill hopefully post the finished article soon.
DSC_6945.JPG


Next is an elderly ex-LNER diagram 207 loco coal wagon, now almost complete. The model is a Parkside/Peco body on a Rumney models chassis. The main modification made was to the doors. Prototype photos show that most of the original pressed steel articles were replaced with welded later in life. I've opted to keep three of the originals in place for some variety, but I wasn't convinced by the Parkside molding in this respect so I had a go at replacing them with beefier plasticard representations. I've gone to town on the weathering as by the 1970s this thing would have been on its last legs.
DSC_6747.JPG

DSC_7057.JPG


Continuing in a similar vein, here is an equally battered ex-LNER 16t mineral. This time the model is a Cambrian body on Bedford W-irons and independent brakegear.
DSC_6748.JPG

DSC_7064.JPG


Lastly for now, here is a snap of the Haddock after priming. The livery will be faded engineers red.
DSC_7061.JPG


More soon.

Cheers,

Liam
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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby John Donnelly » Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:54 am

Nice work, I bottled the Bradwell ore wagons and went for the Dave Alexander version instead...

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:49 am

Thanks. The Bradwell version is the only one available at the moment I believe. It's well designed and logical to build; the main things I'd point out to anyone looking to try it are:

- The arrangement for springing the individual wheels is very fiddly and difficult to assemble (at least for me!). However, it is optional and I chose to omit the springing here and rely only on the secondary springing between bogie and body.

- The hinges on the door castings don't seem to line up exactly with the corresponding pads on the etched rivet strips above the doors openings. To fix this I had to file off a couple of the pads on each side and replace them with thin brass strip suitably shaped in the new position. To be honest this probably isn’t difficult if you do it before fitting the rivet strips, but I only discovered the problem after they were soldered so some awkward in-situ filing was needed. Future builds will be easier I hope.

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Noel » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:52 am

A few thoughts on the 21T and 16T minerals, which are nicely put together. I'm not sure about what period your models are intended to represent, although I presume sometime in the mid- to late-1970s, as that is when the 21T VB you showed earlier in pristine condition would have got the 21.5t metric capacity marking, so the following is based on that. The 16T was built in 1946 and the LNER design 21T in 1948; the 21T is extensively replated, quite consistent with the period as life expectancy for steel bodies before major repair was around 15 years, but the 16T would have been replated as well by then, if it had survived that long.

Maintenance of unfitted steel wagons was pretty much non-existent by then, and they would be showing rust in all stages from orange to very dark brown verging on black, depending on the age of the rust, but rarely uniformly in terms of colour. There is an example towards the bottom of the page in https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/181-br-period-rolling-stock#close and lots more in https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=mineral.

I hope this is helpful.
Regards
Noel

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:08 pm

Thanks Noel. That's very useful.

In terms of time period, I'm planning to build a layout with some swappable details to operate in various eras between roughly 1974 and 1997; although this is flexible and I'm not trying to be exhaustively accurate in this respect as long as it feels plausible.

The two ex-LNER wagons will only run when the layout is operating towards the very beginning of this timeframe. I realise the 16 tonner is a bit unlikely by this time with the original doors etc. (the few photos I've seen of them in the 70s show welded replacement doors like those on the loco coal wagon). I don't have a justification other than I like the look of the pressed doors and its always possible that some of them survived but escaped being photographed!

The 21T MDV and its brethren won't be staying pristine for long! It's going to be part of a rake for the early-mid 80s so the shiny paintwork will be liberally obscured by rust and grime. Some of them will be getting air pipes also.

Cheers,

Liam

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby John Donnelly » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:02 pm

Triode wrote:Thanks. The Bradwell version is the only one available at the moment I believe. It's well designed and logical to build;


I believe that the Alexander range was purchased by someone but I don't know if they'll see the light of day again. I do have a full rake of nine of the Bradwell wagons but I was lucky enough to get them ready built for a very good price albeit they need converting from OO to P4 which is proving to be a challenge...

There is the RTR version from KR Models to come but, I've not been too impressed with what I've seen of it so far.

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:35 pm

The KR ones seem to have improved since the original CAD models that were shown. They now seem to have the correct four air tanks and some interior details. No regrets about going the kit route though as I think it does result in a better model.

I do hope the Alexander range reappears at some point. I always meant to build a couple of the Tyne & Wear metro cars.

I've seen the Bradwell ore rake you bought in your workbench thread. As you mentioned there, I think the only way to get the wheelsetsbout will be to cut the axles. They are a captive fit once the bogies are soldered up. This was the weakest part of the kit for me as I like to be able to remove my wheels etc later if needed - but it really doesn't detract from an excellent product overall.
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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby John Donnelly » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:39 pm

Triode wrote:The KR ones seem to have improved since the original CAD models that were shown. They now seem to have the correct four air tanks and some interior details. No regrets about going the kit route though as I think it does result in a better model.

I do hope the Alexander range reappears at some point. I always meant to build a couple of the Tyne & Wear metro cars.


They have improved but still with one or two niggles but I'll wait and see, a friend has ordered some some so I'll get a look when they arrive.

As for the Metro, me too as well as some of his Tyneside electrics.

I assume your layout is going to be NE based given the wagons?

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:44 pm

John Donnelly wrote:
Triode wrote:I assume your layout is going to be NE based given the wagons?


Yes it's going to be a fictional NE setting/mashup inspired by bits of real locations in the area. Nothing elaborate as I'm a relative newcomer to P4 and want to keep it small/simple for now.

It'll be no South Pelaw Junction that's for sure!

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Re: Liam's wagon workbench - 70s-90s North Eastern region

Postby John Donnelly » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:46 pm

I've done a couple of small and simple in P4 so with South Pelaw it was time to go big :mrgreen:

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Re: Wagon Workbench - 1970s - 1990s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:06 pm

The first Consett ore wagon is finished. I've added magnetic vacuum and air pipes, but will have to wait till I build another one to see if they connect up and work or not!

DSC_8323.JPG

DSC_8321.JPG

DSC_8320.JPG

DSC_8318.JPG
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Re: Wagon Workbench - 1970s - 1990s North Eastern region

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:25 am

Nice :thumb

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Re: Wagon Workbench - 1970s - 1990s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:10 am

I've had a couple of setbacks this weekend unfortunately. First I managed to put my finger through the newly fitted shawplan fan grille on the class 40, then I managed to ruin the paint job on the 21t NCB hopper.

The latter in particular is a huge pain, as it was looking really good and now stripping it back to bare plastic and brass will be a nightmare. Does anyone have any tips for a paint stripper that won't hurt the plastic found in typical kits?

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Re: Wagon Workbench - 1970s - 1990s North Eastern region

Postby Paul Willis » Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:22 am

Triode wrote:I've had a couple of setbacks this weekend unfortunately. First I managed to put my finger through the newly fitted shawplan fan grille on the class 40, then I managed to ruin the paint job on the 21t NCB hopper.

The latter in particular is a huge pain, as it was looking really good and now stripping it back to bare plastic and brass will be a nightmare. Does anyone have any tips for a paint stripper that won't hurt the plastic found in typical kits?


Hi Liam,

I'm afraid that I can't suggest anything for fan grilles, but I have a couple of suggestions for stripping paint.

Firstly though, apologies if I missed it, but is this for enamel or acrylic? I have experience of enamels, but don't use acrylics at all, other then for weathering washes.

Firstly, the traditional method is brake fluid. See here: https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7753

Secondly, in the same discussion, Dettol is suggested. I've never heard of that, but...

Finally, I admit that I use something that costs a bit more, but is designed for the job - Modelstrip

IMG_0797.JPG


Smear a coat of it liberally over the model, poking it into corners and crevices. This bit is messy, but fingers wash off. Then pop it in a sealed plastic bag for 36-48 hours. Afterwards, wash it off, scrubbing gently with a soft toothbrush. It may need a second coat into the aforementioned cracks and crevices, and a bit of poking around with a cocktail stick, but it really does work well.

These are some secondhand Ratio wagons that I've cleaned the original builder's thick gloopy paint from. I've done many more to this standard of cleaning, including some of my own earlier paint jobs.

IMG_0798.JPG


HTH
Paul
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Triode
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Re: Wagon Workbench - 1970s - 1990s North Eastern region

Postby Triode » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:17 am

Thanks Paul. I was thinking it might be time to get some Modelstrip/Superstrip, as I also have some locos that needs the factory finish removing.

The paint job is acrylic, but the primer beneath is Halfords grey primer from a spray can which I believe is more enamel.

Do you know if superstrip will work to remove the Halfords primer? I'd like to get down to bare metal and plastic if possible.

Cheers,

Liam

Edit - FYI, the fan grille is a write-off through my own clumsiness. I've already removed it and will need to order a replacement.


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