Sharman Wheels

[Thornbush]

Forgive me if this is the wrong place for this question. I have also posted it in Wants.

I do not have a lathe, nor have I ever acquired the skills to use one. However, I have acquired a London Road Models kit for an North British R Class 4-4-2T. The correct profile wheels were only ever produced by Sharman and are now only available in OO/EM profile from Phoenix Precision Paints.

So my questions are, does anyone have a set in P4, can the ones I have be turned down to the correct profile on a lathe and where or by whom could I get this done?

[martin goodall]

Mike Sharman always reckoned that his EM wheels (I think he referred to them as his 'B' profile) would run perfectly well on P4 track if set to the usual P4 back-to-back standards. So turning these wheels 'down' to P4 dimensions may not be necessary.

[Daddyman]

The "R" is a 4-4-0T.

What's wrong with the Gibson 4860E? Is the throw wrong? If so, they can be corrected.

Can I ask what period you're building the loco, as there may be other, nastier surprises in store?

[Thornbush]

You are right, Daddyman, I knew it is a 4-4-0T - I was typing faster than I could think! I am intending to portray the loco in Edwardian period and would be grateful for any advice or warnings.

Martin, someone else advised me that, but I have also heard I may have to shave a bit off the wheel backs so they fit in the flange ways but otherwise ok. I will check all of this out and hopefully it will work. Thanks very much for the advice.

[Daddyman]

I am intending to portray the loco in Edwardian period and would be grateful for any advice or warnings.

You're probably safe until 1908-10, when they were reboilered. The replacement boilers were raised 3", which renders things like smokebox front and wrappers and tank fronts and wrappers in the kit unusable (they're the wrong shape anyway) in my eyes; others might be able to live with the millimetre. The shape of the cabside aperture was also changed - can't remember when (earlier than the boiler, I think) and the recent article on the class in the NBRSG journal missed this, though it was the first source I've found to get the boiler height change right - Yeadon, for all his passion for boilers, misses it, as do the "green books". I guessed 3" based on the J82 (the other "R"), where that dimension was fairly widely publicised, and it turned out to be right.

[Thornbush]

Thanks Daddyman, I intend modelling the original boiler version with clack valves on the boiler but had not realised that it was raised when replaced The kit notes certainly don't mention it. A photo I have of No 73 shows the smokebox side lubricators and the pipe from the smokebox to the Westinghouse pump but it only seems to have the one whistle - I'm not sure when the second chime whistle was fitted. The kit also has some nice lost wax injectors but the instructions and drawings make no mention of where or if they should be fitted. As one who normally models Druumond's later locos for the LSWR I have much to learn!

[Philip Hall]

Sharman tyre width was the same for both profiles, 85thou, and Mike's first wheels were sold as one EM profile which you could skim off the back to obtain P4. He subsequently sold both profiles.

If you don't have a lathe, skimming the back of the flange down can easily (if a touch laboriously) be done by rubbing them down on an abrasive block until the flanges are thin enough to compare with P4. Just compare the amount of clearance in a flangeway with a 'genuine' P4 wheel and you're there. Flange depth with a Sharman will be OK, you'll hardly notice, but if it does bother you, just put them on an axle in a mini drill and take a touch off with a fine file, but don't touch the tyre surface.

The 'standard' EM profile used by Ultrascale, Sharman and Gibson tends to have a sharper root radius between flange and tyre, so thinning the flange down from the back enables it to pass through P4 flangeways with the normal amount of clearance. I've even done this on RTR wheels from Bachmann and Hornby where the root radius is similar to EM and P4 and they work perfectly.

Philip

[Daddyman]

The kit notes certainly don't mention it.

I don't think there was much knowledge about the class when the kit came out - Yeadon hadn't got to the class yet. And as I said the NBRSG only got to the raised boiler a year or so ago (though it's apparent in the two side-on photos in Yeadon p.24).

pipe from the smokebox to the Westinghouse pump but it only seems to have the one whistle - I'm not sure when the second chime whistle was fitted. The kit also has some nice lost wax injectors but the instructions and drawings make no mention of where or if they should be fitted.

I know what you mean, but I wonder if the thing that looks like a pipe whistle is actually the governor for the Westinghouse.
I don't remember any injectors.

[Thornbush]

Sharman tyre width was the same for both profiles, 85thou, and Mike's first wheels were sold as one EM profile which you could skim off the back to obtain P4. He subsequently sold both profiles.

If you don't have a lathe, skimming the back of the flange down can easily (if a touch laboriously) be done by rubbing them down on an abrasive block until the flanges are thin enough to compare with P4. Just compare the amount of clearance in a flangeway with a 'genuine' P4 wheel and you're there. Flange depth with a Sharman will be OK, you'll hardly notice, but if it does bother you, just put them on an axle in a mini drill and take a touch off with a fine file, but don't touch the tyre surface.

The 'standard' EM profile used by Ultrascale, Sharman and Gibson tends to have a sharper root radius between flange and tyre, so thinning the flange down from the back enables it to pass through P4 flangeways with the normal amount of clearance. I've even done this on RTR wheels from Bachmann and Hornby where the root radius is similar to EM and P4 and they work perfectly.

Philip

Thank you for this, it all makes sense so I will give it a try and report how I get on.

[Thornbush]

I know what you mean, but I wonder if the thing that looks like a pipe whistle is actually the governor for the Westinghouse.
I don't remember any injectors.

That would actually make sense. On close inspection the casting looks more like a valve than a whistle, with what appears to be three pipes - two inline which I assume would be the pipe from the pump to the smokebox and the third leading back to a dial in the cab. From my understanding many railways were getting rid of second whistles rather than adding them at that time anyway, as automatic brakes meant the guard did not need a specific warning to apply train brakes manually.

Thanks - this is all very interesting and useful.