profiling EM wheels to P4

ken kirk
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profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby ken kirk » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:56 pm

Does anyone or can anyone produce a profiling tool for P4?
We are going to have a test track fairly soon at NAG and I don't want to be t'only one wi' nowt to run.
Any offers?
Ken

Armchair Modeller

Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Armchair Modeller » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:14 pm

Ken

The test track has no check rails, so just push the wheels out on their axles :D

If you really want to do a permanent change to the wheels, I will bring something along to the next NAG meeting

Richard

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Tim V
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Tim V » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:29 pm

Don't let Martin Goodall see this thread.....
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

HowardGWR

Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby HowardGWR » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:26 pm

What's NAG

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grovenor-2685
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:16 pm

NAG,
as distinct from NAGNAG,
Regards
Keith
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Keith
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Terry Bendall
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Terry Bendall » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:13 am

ken kirk wrote:Does anyone or can anyone produce a profiling tool for P4?
We are going to have a test track fairly soon at NAG and I don't want to be t'only one wi' nowt to run.
Any offers?


The web site of the Manchester Model Railway Society has a set of very useful articles on producing wheels, based on the work of Sid Stubbs. It includes advice on cutting tools. www.mmrs.org.uk/technical/track.html
Also see Scalefour News 166 which describes how to make a wheel turning tool.

Terry Bendall

ken kirk
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby ken kirk » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:44 pm

HowardGWR wrote:What's NAG

NAG is what your Wife does only louder. NAGNAG is grounds for divorce!
Actually, Howard, it stands for the Nottingham Area Group of the Society to which all are welcome.
Ken

ken kirk
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby ken kirk » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:53 pm

Thanks chaps for your input.
Thanks to Terry for the link to the MMRS technical pages. This needs careful consideration as I don't have such a big lathe as recommended. thanks again,
Ken

HowardGWR

Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby HowardGWR » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:07 pm

NAG is what your Wife does only louder


Take that back Ken or it will be soldering irons at dawn. :)

I suspect that someone who would offer a re-profiling service by post could get takers.

Armchair Modeller

Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:01 pm

HowardGWR wrote:I suspect that someone who would offer a re-profiling service by post could get takers.


That works quite well in the 2mm Scale Association, but is not always a good option.

Assuming you want narrower wheels to match the P4 profile, then any wheel where the face needs to be preserved is a problem. Spoked wheels and patterned wheel faces ( like Voyagers, diesel hydraulics) would have to be left with wide tyres, or have the pattern obliterated.

Plastic - centred wheels can also be a problem. Tyres can easily work loose under the forces involved in turning down the flanges - or worse, the whole wheel can come loose on the axle, often resulting in wobbly wheels.

Although it is likely to be a more expensive option, decent replacement wheels are likely to be the best bet in most cases.

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jim s-w
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby jim s-w » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:29 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:
Although it is likely to be a more expensive option, decent replacement wheels are likely to be the best bet in most cases.


It will only be more expensive if you put no value on time. Really sell or swap the em wheels. If you find a friendly EM modeller who will be buying wheels anyway ask them to buy P4 ones and swap them, perhaps a buy 2 p4 wheelsets I give you 3 EM ones as an incentive?

Cheers

Jim
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

Terry Bendall
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:44 pm

ken kirk wrote:This needs careful consideration as I don't have such a big lathe as recommended.


When I did the machine tools articles, I wanted to see if my lathe (A Cowells) would cope with not just runing the wheels but also producing the form tool, which was made of steel. In fact it worked well but other small lathes of lighter construction may not be up to the job. Jim S-W's idea of linking up with an EM modeller sounds like a good idea to me.

Terry Bendall

Armchair Modeller

Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:31 pm

There could be a case for reprofiling wheels where the equivalent in P4 is not available - I am not sure what anyone would do about the new Model Rail Sentinel shunter, for example, which should have 2ft 6in wheels - not available in P4 since the demise of Sharman wheels?

ken kirk
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby ken kirk » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:56 am

HowardGWR wrote:
NAG is what your Wife does only louder


Take that back Ken or it will be soldering irons at dawn. :)

Sorry Howard,
I should have said "One's Wife."
Ken :)

martin goodall
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby martin goodall » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:02 pm

Tim V wrote:Don't let Martin Goodall see this thread.....


Too late! He's spotted it.

So to Ken Kirk, I offer this suggestion. If your EM wheels are 'modern' ones (e.g. current or recent production from Ultrascale, Kean Maygib or Alan Gibson), just try setting them out on their axles to the P4 back-to-back gauge and see what happens. You may need to remove some extra material from inside underframes, bogie frames, etc. but not very much.

It will be quicker, easier and cheaper than trying to reprofile your wheels to the P4 wheel profile.

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Tim V
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Tim V » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:12 pm

Drat, the anti Martin Goodall filter didn't work. Must have a word with the web-master.....
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

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Paul Townsend
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Paul Townsend » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:27 am

Drat, the anti Martin Goodall filter didn't work.


Well it did this weekend at GWSG Show, as I noticed Martin on Saturday and Tim on Sunday.
Sadly their non-coincidence denied me the delight of watching the duel of the form tools. ;)

martin goodall
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby martin goodall » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:27 pm

paultownsend wrote:
Drat, the anti Martin Goodall filter didn't work.


Well it did this weekend at GWSG Show, as I noticed Martin on Saturday and Tim on Sunday.
Sadly their non-coincidence denied me the delight of watching the duel of the form tools. ;)


I was forced to miss the second day of GW-Expo because I had to work on Sunday (!!!) ['Work' is a four-letter word! But I can't afford to retire.] In fact I am just taking a very short lunch break while working on the same job,which is going to keep me busy up to asnd including Wednesday,assuming we don't go 'part-heard'; then I have to catch up on all the other jobs which have had to be put aside to deal with this one. No peace for the wicked.

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Horsetan
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Horsetan » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:30 pm

Tim V wrote:Drat, the anti Martin Goodall filter didn't work. Must have a word with the web-master.....


:D :D :D :mrgreen:
That would be an ecumenical matter.

jasp
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby jasp » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:39 am

Is there anyone out there willing and able to re-profile 4 bogie wheels?
I have some 2'-6" Sharman wheels purchased many years ago. They appear to be 00/EM, presumably supplied in error and not checked by me at the time.
I have been unable to find a small enough wheel to replace these.
Jim

billbedford

Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby billbedford » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:38 am

I think I would use the Alan Gibson LowMac wheels and ignore the extra half millimetre on the diameter.

Armchair Modeller

Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:58 pm

There is also the Dapol Sentinel conversion set from Ultrascale, if you can find suitable muffs

Philip Hall
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Philip Hall » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:38 pm

I think it's quite possible simply to mount the wheels in a revolving machine of some sort (like a 12v drill held in a vice) and adjust the profile with a file until it looks about right. I know this has been done with a set of wheels from the Dapol Beattie Well Tank, which works, and something similar, with files only again, but using a lathe as the revolving machine, was done for me many years ago for a set of Sharman wheels similar to yours. The profile doesn't have to be spot on(!), it's nice if it is but it will work if it's about right.

Philip

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Tim V
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Tim V » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:51 pm

If you use a file near ANY sort of revolving machine, ensure it has a handle. A file could shoot up your arm - with disastrous results to your arm...
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

Philip Hall
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Re: profiling EM wheels to P4

Postby Philip Hall » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:41 pm

Quite right, Tim, I should have mentioned that. Even a small drill can send a file flying if it gets caught. Especially by the jaws of a lathe chuck. And, just as important, eye protection, safety glasses or goggles. Ordinary spectacles are not strong or 'wrap around' enough.

Philip


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