Alpha Mill

Outside the fence.
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TonyMont
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby TonyMont » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:21 pm

Hi Ralph,
That looks absolutely wonderful, well done.

Tony.

JFS
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:55 pm

My goodness" It looks even better in place on the layout! I think the weathering has come out even better than I hoped - it looks like it grew there!

Things have come a long way since this:- viewtopic.php?f=73&t=853&start=53#p58955

Very well done and keep up the excellent work Ralph, and good luck with the show - sorry I won't be able to make it.

Best Wishes,

ralphrobertson
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:25 pm

Thanks Tony and Howard. Yes this is completely different to what was originally proposed and the journey has certainly been interesting and I have learnt an awful lot about cotton mills thanks to Howard. The building as it is now is certainly a whole lot more interesting and captures the atmosphere of the area completely.

It will be a few weeks now before I get chance to move on to the engine house, these architects seem to have gone overboard with the stonework on these buildings so it will take some planning.

Ralph

ralphrobertson
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:27 pm

I meant to post this photo as well, it is a bit closer than the end shots.

20181106_200604.jpg

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steve howe
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby steve howe » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:53 pm

[/quote]

Here is another animation which perhaps shows the engine room and rope
race a bit better.



Best wishes,[/quote]



Were mill engines always horizontal cylinder or did some use rotative beam engines? I only ask because I am working on an inglenook project at the moment which features a Pennine mill in the background and the engine house is quite tall with a large arched window.


Steve

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby Guy Rixon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:29 pm

steve howe wrote:Were mill engines always horizontal cylinder or did some use rotative beam engines? I only ask because I am working on an inglenook project at the moment which features a Pennine mill in the background and the engine house is quite tall with a large arched window.


There were a lot of rotative beam-engines in mills before the horizontal form became common. I'm not sure how long they lasted. I think the trend to more powerful and efficient engines, and particularly higher-pressure engines, saw most of the beam engines replaced.

IIRC, a few mills had beam pumping engines that filled ponds to drive waterwheels.

JFS
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:05 pm

Guy Rixon wrote:
steve howe wrote:Were mill engines always horizontal cylinder or did some use rotative beam engines? I only ask because I am working on an inglenook project at the moment which features a Pennine mill in the background and the engine house is quite tall with a large arched window.


There were a lot of rotative beam-engines in mills before the horizontal form became common. I'm not sure how long they lasted. I think the trend to more powerful and efficient engines, and particularly higher-pressure engines, saw most of the beam engines replaced.

IIRC, a few mills had beam pumping engines that filled ponds to drive waterwheels.


The last beam engine in Oldham finished work on 7th September 1962 - I know because as a 7 year old, I watched it start for the very last time! But I can only recall a handful of others which survived into the fifties, whereas there were still 30 odd mills driven by horizontal or inverted vertical engines at that time. Beam engines were slightly more common in the Woolen mills of Yorkshire, but again were fast disappearing by the fifties.

There were very few back-pumping engines - the first was at Arkwright's Haarlem Mill in Worksworth. It lasted only a very short while as it was hopelessly inefficient and rotative engines quickly superceded the concept.

Best Wishes,

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steve howe
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby steve howe » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:07 am

Guy Rixon wrote:
steve howe wrote:Were mill engines always horizontal cylinder or did some use rotative beam engines? I only ask because I am working on an inglenook project at the moment which features a Pennine mill in the background and the engine house is quite tall with a large arched window.


There were a lot of rotative beam-engines in mills before the horizontal form became common. I'm not sure how long they lasted. I think the trend to more powerful and efficient engines, and particularly higher-pressure engines, saw most of the beam engines replaced.


Thanks for that guys, my scene is late 1930's so might be able to wing it, the thing is the window in the engine house is large and even without lighting its going to need something inside!

Steve

JFS
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:47 pm

steve howe wrote: ... the thing is the window in the engine house is large and even without lighting its going to need something inside!


Assuming you are copying a real mill (why would you not be given the history behind Alpha Mill!) the type of engine should be fairly clear from the shape of the building. You can then use a photo of a suitable engine (for example from here:- http://ellisdesign.jalbum.net/Stationary%20Engines%20-%201/ )as a guide.

Not sure if you have looked closely at the mill on Martin Nield's "Eccleston" - that has a prominent engine room with the same issue. We knocked up a rough mock up of an engine in bits of plasticard in an hour or two, slapped some bright silver paint on the brightwork, plus suitable colours on the rest. It is as rough as a bear's armpit, but looks great from the outside!

Best Wishes,

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steve howe
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby steve howe » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:50 pm

Thanks Howard,

Its not an actual mill as it had to be conjoured up to fit the space, but the link was very useful, thanks.

Steve

JFS
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:11 pm

steve howe wrote: Its not an actual mill as it had to be conjoured up to fit the space, but the link was very useful, thanks.


Hmm ... you might be about to get some stiffly worded guidance from Ralph... :D

ralphrobertson
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:57 pm

JFS wrote:Hmm ... you might be about to get some stiffly worded guidance from Ralph...


Well, I fell down at the first hurdle and thankfully at that stage I hadn't gone very far down the track so I could get this project made correctly. I am a big admirer of your layouts Steve and with the information readily available it should be easy to find something to fit your space. Howard has a huge amount of information about mills as we are very thankful to have learned over the last 9 months or so. Without this forum and Howard's information mine we would have had a load of cr** as a mill.

Ralph

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steve howe
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby steve howe » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:48 pm

I started this little project https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=3745&p=56161&hilit=inglenook#p56161 a few years back and its been on the back burner till recently. The reason for its sudden resurrection is because I have been asked to do a demo. at a model engineering event at Falmouth Maritime Museum this next weekend https://nmmc.co.uk/2018/01/model-engineering-showcase-weekend-november-17-18/so decided to take the Plank and try and get the remaining buildings into a recognisable form. My effort is one of the smaller and probably older Yorkshire woollen mills typical of the upper Calder valley, hence the query about beam engines.

I may chance my arm and post an update in a few days....

Stunning work on Alpha Mill, really inspiring :thumb

Steve

Dave Holt
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby Dave Holt » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:32 pm

Hi Ralph.
I must say you've got the colour and weathering on the mill absolutely spot on, to my eyes. Very nice work so far and I'm looking forward to seeing the rest.
Dave.

ralphrobertson
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:13 pm

Thanks Dave. Your input has been valuable too and once we have our show out of the way in a couple of weeks I will move on to start the engine house. Alpha Mill will appear in the display stand at the Manchester Christmas Show on 1st and 2nd December https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6104 and I am just sorting out how to display it to its best. I have been putting in the glazing and once I have the ironwork delivered (it is due tomorrow) I will finish the roof by adding some railings and a flag pole.

Once that is done I will post another photo in the format it will appear at the show.

Thanks for all your kind comments.

Ralph

ralphrobertson
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:24 pm

Just put the finishing touches to the mill so it can be put on display at the Manchester exhibition next weekend. Made a change to the steps based on some recommendations from Howard and it now looks much better. Added the ironwork which came back from the etchers last week. Made up a flagpole and put the ironwork around the top of the roof, no idea what the original ironwork looked like as I couldn't find a drawing or indeed a photo so I made up something which was easy for me. It has been glazed and had some dark brown mounting board put in about 20mm behind the windows so you can't see all the way through them, that way you won't be able to see the monitor.

DSCN1897.JPG
Mill ready for the show. Plinth made up for display and knocked up some bits of card to show what is yet to be made.


DSCN1899.JPG
Extension front showing revised steps and doorway


DSCN1900irfan.jpg
View along the rope race wall showing the top brickwork clearly


DSCN1903irfan.jpg
View from the other end


Well, that's it for a while now. Need to do some work on some terraced houses before I get on with starting the engine house. That has a lot of intricate stonework too and I have turned the building round so this view will be the back which is only visible from the back of the layout. Something to look forward to!

Ralph
Attachments
DSCN1635.JPG
Warwick Mill Engine House

Armchair Modeller
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:31 pm

Amazing model - well done! :thumb

JFS
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:41 pm

Very impressive Ralph - superb job. Amazing how the details bring it all to life. Any visitors who are residents of Oldham will immediately feel at home!

Best Wishes,

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iak
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby iak » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:47 pm

Something else to have a gander at on Saturday then...
Smashing job mind :thumb
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


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ralphrobertson
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:49 pm

Thank you all for your kind comments.

Ralph

Terry Bendall
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:57 am

ralphrobertson wrote:Just put the finishing touches to the mill so it can be put on display at the Manchester exhibition next weekend


I shall be at the Manchester show at the weekend with the Society stand and will look forward to seeing this impressive piece of work in the flesh.

Terry Bendall

Dave Holt
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:58 am

Ralph,
Alpha Mill is looking even better every time you show it on here. At the risk of repeating myself, this is an absolutely superb model of this most distinctive style of cotton mill. Very well done indeed. Howard is right, anyone familiar with the Oldham area will recognise the style, instantly.
Sadly, I doubt I'll make it to the Manchester Show next weekend, but I very much hope to get an opportunity to see it, up close and personal, in due course!
Best wishes,
Dave.

JFS
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:18 pm

A bit late perhaps, but this might be useful for the next bit of etching - this is from the Warwick (this is the boundary fence but much of the ironwork was in this Art Nouveau style.)

G Stott ironwork.jpg
G Stott ironwork.jpg (351.39 KiB) Viewed 2525 times


Best Wishes,

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby Le Corbusier » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:33 pm

JFS wrote: (this is the boundary fence but much of the ironwork was in this Art Nouveau style.)

or perhaps 'arts and crafts' style? more balanced and less sinuous than the continental iteration. Perhaps pedantic but for me this kind of decoration grows more from the plant forms of Morris et al(a tradition which predated but influenced Europe) than the more hothouse offerings of Guimard and Horta. Rather nice though. It would be interesting to know if the Stott's were members of the Art Workers Guild?
Tim Lee

JFS
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:21 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:or perhaps 'arts and crafts' style?
...
It would be interesting to know if the Stott's were members of the Art Workers Guild?


I think you are right Tim. I will put your question to someone who might know and I will let you know...

Best Wishes,


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