Alpha Mill

Outside the fence.
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TonyMont
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby TonyMont » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:21 pm

Hi Ralph,
That looks absolutely wonderful, well done.

Tony.

JFS
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Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:47 pm

Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:55 pm

My goodness" It looks even better in place on the layout! I think the weathering has come out even better than I hoped - it looks like it grew there!

Things have come a long way since this:- viewtopic.php?f=73&t=853&start=53#p58955

Very well done and keep up the excellent work Ralph, and good luck with the show - sorry I won't be able to make it.

Best Wishes,

ralphrobertson
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:25 pm

Thanks Tony and Howard. Yes this is completely different to what was originally proposed and the journey has certainly been interesting and I have learnt an awful lot about cotton mills thanks to Howard. The building as it is now is certainly a whole lot more interesting and captures the atmosphere of the area completely.

It will be a few weeks now before I get chance to move on to the engine house, these architects seem to have gone overboard with the stonework on these buildings so it will take some planning.

Ralph

ralphrobertson
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:27 pm

I meant to post this photo as well, it is a bit closer than the end shots.

20181106_200604.jpg

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steve howe
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby steve howe » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:53 pm

[/quote]

Here is another animation which perhaps shows the engine room and rope
race a bit better.



Best wishes,[/quote]



Were mill engines always horizontal cylinder or did some use rotative beam engines? I only ask because I am working on an inglenook project at the moment which features a Pennine mill in the background and the engine house is quite tall with a large arched window.


Steve

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby Guy Rixon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:29 pm

steve howe wrote:Were mill engines always horizontal cylinder or did some use rotative beam engines? I only ask because I am working on an inglenook project at the moment which features a Pennine mill in the background and the engine house is quite tall with a large arched window.


There were a lot of rotative beam-engines in mills before the horizontal form became common. I'm not sure how long they lasted. I think the trend to more powerful and efficient engines, and particularly higher-pressure engines, saw most of the beam engines replaced.

IIRC, a few mills had beam pumping engines that filled ponds to drive waterwheels.

JFS
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Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:47 pm

Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:05 pm

Guy Rixon wrote:
steve howe wrote:Were mill engines always horizontal cylinder or did some use rotative beam engines? I only ask because I am working on an inglenook project at the moment which features a Pennine mill in the background and the engine house is quite tall with a large arched window.


There were a lot of rotative beam-engines in mills before the horizontal form became common. I'm not sure how long they lasted. I think the trend to more powerful and efficient engines, and particularly higher-pressure engines, saw most of the beam engines replaced.

IIRC, a few mills had beam pumping engines that filled ponds to drive waterwheels.


The last beam engine in Oldham finished work on 7th September 1962 - I know because as a 7 year old, I watched it start for the very last time! But I can only recall a handful of others which survived into the fifties, whereas there were still 30 odd mills driven by horizontal or inverted vertical engines at that time. Beam engines were slightly more common in the Woolen mills of Yorkshire, but again were fast disappearing by the fifties.

There were very few back-pumping engines - the first was at Arkwright's Haarlem Mill in Worksworth. It lasted only a very short while as it was hopelessly inefficient and rotative engines quickly superceded the concept.

Best Wishes,

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steve howe
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby steve howe » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:07 am

Guy Rixon wrote:
steve howe wrote:Were mill engines always horizontal cylinder or did some use rotative beam engines? I only ask because I am working on an inglenook project at the moment which features a Pennine mill in the background and the engine house is quite tall with a large arched window.


There were a lot of rotative beam-engines in mills before the horizontal form became common. I'm not sure how long they lasted. I think the trend to more powerful and efficient engines, and particularly higher-pressure engines, saw most of the beam engines replaced.


Thanks for that guys, my scene is late 1930's so might be able to wing it, the thing is the window in the engine house is large and even without lighting its going to need something inside!

Steve

JFS
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:47 pm

steve howe wrote: ... the thing is the window in the engine house is large and even without lighting its going to need something inside!


Assuming you are copying a real mill (why would you not be given the history behind Alpha Mill!) the type of engine should be fairly clear from the shape of the building. You can then use a photo of a suitable engine (for example from here:- http://ellisdesign.jalbum.net/Stationary%20Engines%20-%201/ )as a guide.

Not sure if you have looked closely at the mill on Martin Nield's "Eccleston" - that has a prominent engine room with the same issue. We knocked up a rough mock up of an engine in bits of plasticard in an hour or two, slapped some bright silver paint on the brightwork, plus suitable colours on the rest. It is as rough as a bear's armpit, but looks great from the outside!

Best Wishes,

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steve howe
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby steve howe » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:50 pm

Thanks Howard,

Its not an actual mill as it had to be conjoured up to fit the space, but the link was very useful, thanks.

Steve

JFS
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby JFS » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:11 pm

steve howe wrote: Its not an actual mill as it had to be conjoured up to fit the space, but the link was very useful, thanks.


Hmm ... you might be about to get some stiffly worded guidance from Ralph... :D

ralphrobertson
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:57 pm

JFS wrote:Hmm ... you might be about to get some stiffly worded guidance from Ralph...


Well, I fell down at the first hurdle and thankfully at that stage I hadn't gone very far down the track so I could get this project made correctly. I am a big admirer of your layouts Steve and with the information readily available it should be easy to find something to fit your space. Howard has a huge amount of information about mills as we are very thankful to have learned over the last 9 months or so. Without this forum and Howard's information mine we would have had a load of cr** as a mill.

Ralph

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steve howe
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Re: Alpha Mill

Postby steve howe » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:48 pm

I started this little project https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=3745&p=56161&hilit=inglenook#p56161 a few years back and its been on the back burner till recently. The reason for its sudden resurrection is because I have been asked to do a demo. at a model engineering event at Falmouth Maritime Museum this next weekend https://nmmc.co.uk/2018/01/model-engineering-showcase-weekend-november-17-18/so decided to take the Plank and try and get the remaining buildings into a recognisable form. My effort is one of the smaller and probably older Yorkshire woollen mills typical of the upper Calder valley, hence the query about beam engines.

I may chance my arm and post an update in a few days....

Stunning work on Alpha Mill, really inspiring :thumb

Steve

Dave Holt
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Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm

Re: Alpha Mill

Postby Dave Holt » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:32 pm

Hi Ralph.
I must say you've got the colour and weathering on the mill absolutely spot on, to my eyes. Very nice work so far and I'm looking forward to seeing the rest.
Dave.

ralphrobertson
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:57 pm

Re: Alpha Mill

Postby ralphrobertson » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:13 pm

Thanks Dave. Your input has been valuable too and once we have our show out of the way in a couple of weeks I will move on to start the engine house. Alpha Mill will appear in the display stand at the Manchester Christmas Show on 1st and 2nd December https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6104 and I am just sorting out how to display it to its best. I have been putting in the glazing and once I have the ironwork delivered (it is due tomorrow) I will finish the roof by adding some railings and a flag pole.

Once that is done I will post another photo in the format it will appear at the show.

Thanks for all your kind comments.

Ralph


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