Brettell Road - Shuffling and testing

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1972
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:18 am

jim s-w wrote:Oxford have modelled both of the vertical end ribs facing the same way on these tanks


Thanks for pointing that out, Jim, I hadn't spotted it in photographs [I don't have one, yet]. So far as I know, they should be "T" section as with other tanks; certainly that is what the RCH drawings show. How odd...
Regards
Noel

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:54 pm

Terry Bendall wrote: I assume that the bogies on the 1799 van were scratch built?

Terry Bendall


Thanks Terry

Yes they are. Simple overlays on an old A1 models bogie frame. Looking at the finished model pic I might lower to body on them a little.
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

PhilipT
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:18 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby PhilipT » Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:43 pm

Good to see a model of the D1799 van. As in Bob Essery's LMS wagons book, you say they worked on "the Copley Hill to Armley line". As far as I can see there was no direct line as such but I guess the traffic would have been worked from Copley Hill yard (-ex LNWR) via Wellington Street goods where a reversal would have been necessary in order to access the descent to Geldard Junction and the -ex NER line towards Armley. Maybe this descent was the reason for the 40 ton brake van? Does anyone know the nature of the traffic (my guess would be coal for Kirkstall power station)?

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:14 pm

Midland brake van evolution - a visual guide.

One thing the Midland did well was use standardised bits and adapted them as they went along. This is quite noticeable in their signal boxes but also in their brake vans and, visually at least, the evolution is pretty obvious and logical.  So from left to right...

Image
Starting with the early midland 10 ton van.  This was very much of its time and featured 3ft 6in wheels with a veranda at one end only. The open platform thats so familiar to the idea of a brake van wasn't something that the Midland really went with and only one lot (D2096) of 4 vehicles would feature this in the future.  The rest of standard Midland brake vans would all feature a full length roof.

The later 20 ton van was built to diagram 1659 between 1924 and 1927 and featured a longer 12 ft wheelbase with 3ft wheels and a cabin that was 13ft 4in inside. This would become the standard size cabin for the rest of the midland vans that followed The similarities between the 2 type shown are pretty obvious with vertical planking and basically the same end panels.

Image
Next came diagram 1657 (the diagram numbers don't seem to follow in a chronological order) built between 1927 and 1931.  The obvious change was the duckets on the side.  The outer ends also evolved to feature a smaller opening and flush planking but still with the same offset central vertical spar.

Image
From diagram 1657 to diagram 1940 built in 1933/34.  Virtually identical except for an increase in wheelbase of 14ft which resulted in a visually less nicely proportioned vehicle. It's suggested that the increase was an attempt to improve stability at higher speeds.

Image
On to diagram 1890 also built in 1933/34.  Still 20 tons but with another wheelbase increase to 16ft and an increase on overall length from 20ft to 24ft. The cabin size remained the same but there was a change from vertical to horizontal planking. Note the end central spar now really is central!

Image
Finally diagram 2036.  Basically the same as before but with the door opening moved to the far end.  The planking on the ends is now gone as is the central spar as well as the upper part of the opening following the roof line. There were a few slightly different variants of this design such as diagram 2068 (the last being built in 1950) which featured a deeper ballast box between the wheels. Some of this last batch were also fitted although many of the other types were through piped at times in their lives.
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:21 pm

Bit of a mixed bag this post, starting with;

A kind gift.

My friend Tom contacted me to say he had an old Millholme models kit for an LMS 30t bogie bolster and did I want it?  Of course it would be rude not too!

The kit represents, as best as I can tell, a diagram 1682 45 ft bogie bolster. These were a continuation of a Midland design with the only obvious difference being that the earlier ones had handbrake wheels rather than compound levers. The sides and solebars were, nicely, cast in one piece and being as old kit the bufferbeam and ends where missing. The trussing was also cast in whitemetal and was somewhat optimistic as its a long piece in a not very strong and somewhat bendy material.

Image
So to work I replaced all the trussing with 1mm L section brass from Eileens.  The brake lever castings were OK and they are both mounted at one end. It appears that only the bogie at this end is braked at all.

Image
The bogies are ratio ones and I ditched the swivelling plate idea as supplied preferring to pack them out and mount them with a screw.  The bufferbeams were from my scrap kit parts box and the extra rivet detail from Archers transfers. The buffers were the ones supplied in the kit.
Image

Lampost conundrum

My plan to extend Brettell Road includes completing the road currently on the left of the layout as well as adding a new road.  Digging around looking at local pictures in the late 50s the lamposts seem to be mostly the concrete cast type.  Theres a couple of options for these. Hornby Scaledale none working ones and woodland scenics working type.  I immediately discounted the latter as they are far too chunky and just look awful.

Image
Not that the Hornby ones look any better.  Im not sure why they bothered to produce these as they are basically crude lumps of resin and they don't even provide a foot for modellers to mount them.  The idea of fitting a surface mount LED and hiding the wires on the none viewing side went out of the window!  I must be able to do something better than this surely? Especially as, at most I will only need 5 of them.
Image
So with some K&S metal section (1.5mm square for the top and 2.4mm Hex for the main trunk) I made this.
Image
The base was blended into the main columns and sprayed with Plasticote suede. I also very lighty dusted some grey primer and blank over it to give a more concretey colouring. Below is how it looks in position.
Image

Baby Grampus

Flicking through Simon Bendall's bookazine 'Modelling British Railways - Engineers wagons' I was taken by a wagon I'd not come across before. The GWR designed ling.  A 14 ton open wagon that looks like a baby grampus. In the bookazine, Hywel Thomas built one by cutting down a Chivers Tunney but I decided another route would be to stretch a Cambrian starfish instead.
Image
So 2 starfish kits were found and a lot of cutting ensued. The doors on a Ling are shorter than a Starfish so each door had a section cut from the middle with new strapping from microstrip. Buffers are from Lanarkshire models, W irons from Bill Bedford, door bangers and steps from Rumney Models and the test of the underframe from plastic section and the spares box.
Image

Image
Above is the reason i referred to this wagon as a baby grampus.  Along side one it's considerably smaller.  Comparisons between the shortened doors and the starfish originals can also be seen.
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:47 pm

It seems that the good folk of Brierley Hill need to rely on buses for a while...
Image
...Brettell Road is currently somewhat disrupted!    Work progressing on the plan to double track the layout.   One of the advantages of designing a layout on a computer and having a friendly laser cutting chap is you can design bits to replace things you really should have thought more about the first time!

Ive talked before about the regret at not making the layout a double track and I've also touched on using MDF as a trackbed which turned out to be a tad too unstable. The main lines have been replaced with 6mm ply and a hole cut for it to sit in.  Pictures of Brettell Lane in the period show some encroachment of flat bottom trackwork but in the form of pointwork. Further down the line, north of Dudley the Midland lines were also flat bottom in the period I am modelling and since Brettell road has always been more Midland anyway I decided to go with flat bottom trackwork for the plain lines.  Specifically mills clips courtesy of Colin Craig. (the actual clips will be added after testing.

Image

Chains of slips under bridges all seem oddly familiar for some reason!  Like my other model nothing in this one is straight either! The track on the left isn’t fixed at this end yet

Thanks to Colin and Tim for their assistance in supplying bits.
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:15 pm

Well the engineering works, true to form, over ran and took a bit longer than I expected. However the mini people of Brierley Hill will be pleased to hear that services can resume.
Image
I used to be a fan of the JLTRT track colour spray paint but as that range is long gone now and my last can was pretty much done for an alternative was required.  Halfords do a 'camouflage' range of very matt colours in their rattle cans and the brown is ideal as a basic track colour.
Image
The completed track ballasted and weathered from under the bridge. The blocks on the right are for the point rodding and I haven't fitted the point motors yet.
Image
Image
The left hand end from the other side of the bridge. I have a couple of ground signals to add yet.
Image
Image
And the right hand end.  This is the end that required the most adjustment of whats already there.
Image
The bridges over the canal have been adapted to fit in their new locations.  I still have a bit of work to bed them in properly and I intend to fit a couple of central girders between the tracks on both levels.
Image
The nearer buffer stop has been repositioned slightly and a new bridge built.  I decided to angle it a little and do a bit of scruffy road to go behind it.
Image
Old meets new!
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

DougN
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby DougN » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:08 pm

Looks great Jim.

One question regarding the track colour. Are you painting all the track ie rails and sleepers all the same or are you only doing parts. I can't quite see between photos one and four. One being the raw track awaiting the paint and then four which I can see is painted but your ballasting and weathering has toned it all in so wonderfully.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:24 am

Thanks Doug. The sleepers are all the Halfords dark brown and the rails are a lighter brown. I tend to be a little loose with the latter and if some gets on the sleepers I will blend it in with thinners which gives some slight variation but most is from the weathering.

Interestingly my studies of weathered track shows it’s different in the steam era to what you see today. Modem locos generally leave a line of oil/grease/crud down the centre of the track while in the late 50s/early 60s is seems there were 2 darker lines where the rails were and the centre was generally lighter. I’m not sure that comes over with what I’ve done.

Cheers

Jim
Last edited by jim s-w on Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

DougN
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby DougN » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:17 am

I agree with you. The current track has a centre line where as the steam era do have quite a distinct pair of lines. I have noticed it most watching the preserved lines particularly where locos stand in platforms. Yard areas seem to be a congealed mass of dust, dirt, oil, coal.

I particularly liked your track as I have been watching some cine film on youtube of the North east area and the ballast which is cinders seems to be almost black with lighter sleepers. As you suggest it is a dark brown with lighter grey where the creosote has weathered away... but it is all lighter than the cinders. I am on the hunt for some good colour photos so I can replicate the look I am after. This is due to the cinders/ black sleepers looking wrong as there is little contrast in colours between the too.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:26 pm

Part of the process in upgrading Brettell Road and preparing it for part 2 was to redo the wiring. Those that have been following from the start will recall that it was initially only a plaything and not an exhibition layout and the wiring reflected that being just 4 wired between boards. 2 for the DCC and 2 for the AC supply.  A concession was made after the first show to provide short protection for each board but its not really how things should be done so its been mostly stripped out and done again.

So now the DCC is split into 3 sections. One for the yard, one for the mainlines and one for the accessories. Theres little point having short protection if said short cuts off the ability to throw the points and resolve it. The AC is also split into 2 sections as well, the second being a DC supply for LEDs. You can use AC for LEDs anyway but the flicker can be noticeable sometimes.   So now theres 10 wires between boards instead.

Signals

The new arrangement for entering the yard has required a few new signals as well.
Image
Mainly a couple of ground signals from the MSE kits. I need a couple more for part 2 (one of which is a double) so I built them all together.  These are powered by servos controlled by a Tam Valley control board.  http://tamvalleydepot.com/products/quadservodecoder.html
Image
I guess this also comes under signals? A simple limit of shunt sign from a MSE lamp a bit of brass tube and some microstrip.

Below a couple of mood shots.
Image
Image
Image
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:32 pm

DougN wrote: I am on the hunt for some good colour photos so I can replicate the look I am after. This is due to the cinders/ black sleepers looking wrong as there is little contrast in colours between the too.


Have you seen any of the last years of steam books Doug?

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/Last-Years-Steam-Around-Midlands-Photographic/30775084563/bd?cm_mmc=ggl-_-UK_Shopp_Tradestandard-_-product_id=COUK9781781551295USED-_-keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1rT4xvyl8AIVGe3tCh2LEAoEEAQYAiABEgLMsvD_BwE

Jim
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

bécasse
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby bécasse » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:19 pm

DougN wrote: I am on the hunt for some good colour photos so I can replicate the look I am after. This is due to the cinders/ black sleepers looking wrong as there is little contrast in colours between the too.


While these are now uprights separating two different garden levels, the marks on them show that they were once railway sleepers and, indeed, they were once noticeably darker than they are now.

IMG_2953.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

DougN
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby DougN » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:08 pm

Thanks Jim, no I haven't seen any of those books. I need to start looking more specifically for those books and similar. It is a disadvantage being in Australia in that we don't have many book shops or opportunities where we can browse titles such as these so they tend to need to be purchased sight unseen.

For the last 8 weeks I have been trying to get a project finished, so modelling has been on the back burner. Thankfully most of the building work is now finished and it is getting to the paper warfare to complete it. So hopefully I will end up with more time to get some models finished. I never realised just how tired walking can make you! I went from being in the office to on site from walking around 3000 to 4000steps to 11000 to 13000 so up to 3 times!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

DougN
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby DougN » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:15 pm

bécasse wrote:
DougN wrote: I am on the hunt for some good colour photos so I can replicate the look I am after. This is due to the cinders/ black sleepers looking wrong as there is little contrast in colours between the too.


While these are now uprights separating two different garden levels, the marks on them show that they were once railway sleepers and, indeed, they were once noticeably darker than they are now.

IMG_2953.jpeg


Thanks for the photo. It is always interesting to see these colour changes. I say that as colour is subjective to certain extent. What little modelling I have done has included a lot of painting. Jim is a bit of an expert at getting the palette of colours to be complimentary. I have just started looking/thinking/ observing colour from the perspective of what we model. Ok going from using a colour from a tin as it says its wagon grey to actually looking and matching/ mixing colour the colours. ( yes Jim did use the colour from the tin originally but then had other washes etc to get the needed tones ect)

All the best

Doug
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

Terry

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Terry » Sun May 02, 2021 3:30 pm

Having only rejoined the society back in March this year, I'm spending some time looking at threads which interest me. Over the last week or so I've managed to work my way through this one in some detail. I must say this is very inspiring work on locomotives, rolling stock and scenery!

I'll continue to follow with much interest.

Thanks

Terry

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon May 03, 2021 4:47 pm

Thanks Terry

Welcome back!

Jim
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun May 09, 2021 6:02 pm

8A91CD25-7CB4-4A68-AD23-F40C8C89610D.jpeg


Behind the scenes I have migrated my site to a new hosting company. All has gone pretty well but there was an oops! I did lose was the subscribers list, unfortunately. So with apologies can I ask all those who wish to still receive updates re-subscribe to my site? Its dead simple. Go to www.p4newstreet.com click on any of the workbenches and on the right you can pop in your email where it says follow. Remember to click the confirmation link in the email you are sent and thats it. Again apologies for the inconvenience and if you spot anything else thats broken feel free to drop me an email.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

Dave Holt
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Dave Holt » Sun May 09, 2021 8:39 pm

Always said P4 wouldn't work :o
Nicely posed (I hope).
Dave.

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon May 24, 2021 5:45 pm

Image
With the point rodding redone and signal wires back in place theres not really anything left to do on Brettell Road part 1.  I was hoping to embrace the latest technology with the rodding and decided to go with 3d printed BR stools from Modelu.  However those didn't work out for me at all and proved to be far too fragile.  Ive sent them all back and Alan is going to investigate as he believes there was a problem with the resin.  I'll do a follow up post when he comes back with his findings. So as the old adage goes, sometimes its best to stick with what you know I went back to the trusty Brassmasters etched ones instead.

Image
The cranks are also Brassmasters although I've used the MSE bases as I thought they were better.  The rodding itself and signal posts are also from MSE with the signal wires from ezline. Unlike the previous version where I made some of the point rodding work, just to see if i could, I didn't feel any need to to it again.

Image
A few more detectors for the ground signals  were knocked up from bits of brass and my rain technique of coats of Tamiya smoke and AK wet effects fluid reapplied.  I guess you could say I'm back to where I was a few months ago!

Image
Theres something oh so familiar about glimpses of grubby track between bridges and retaining walls.

Image
At the other end of the layout the extra bits of the bridges have been added.

Image
One thing I forgot to mention before is this stuff. Its great for fixing ballast and while its no where near as cheap as the traditional PVA/ water/ washing up liquid concoction it can be used straight from the bottle with no messing around wetting everything first.
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
Serjt-Dave
Posts: 641
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:31 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Serjt-Dave » Tue May 25, 2021 8:02 am

Excellent work there Jim. Well done.

All Best

Dave

Terry Bendall
Forum Team
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed May 26, 2021 9:40 am

jim s-w wrote:With the point rodding redone and signal wires back in place theres not really anything left to do on Brettell Road part 1.


Back to New Street Jim?? :D

Terry Bendall

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:23 pm

I guess I was supposed to be here about a year ago but Covid happened. I actually had a trip over to Tims planned between the first and second lock down but that got delayed to the start of this week. Tim Kindly agreed to me using his laser cutters for 3 days but in the event it only took 2 to do the new boards for Brettell Road. I must say there was only a few of the most minor amendments needed which I was very pleased about and unlike some of our previous efforts next to no scrap bits this time!

Image
Here we see the new board meeting the old. Perhaps one of the biggest advantages of drawing baseboards up digitally and cutting them on a machine is that everything should be consistent. In the event the track bed was about a mill and half too high which considering I had rebuilt the main lines wasn't to bad at all. Nothing a few minutes with a saw and a chisel didn't fix anyway!   The end back scene from the original layout has been cut away.

Image
Overview of the 2 new boards.  Unlike the previous boards the mainline is flat on these boards with the yard rising behind them.  Kings Heath station was the inspiration for this arrangement. Time will tell if I need to get creative about how the wagons in the yard stay put.

Image
Looking towards Stourbridge.  The platforms will fill all of the view here along the mainlines  I have a thing for stations with much longer platforms than the trains that serve them.  I wonder if its because much of the norther half of the North Warwickshire Line had stations like this (as a kid our garden backed onto it)?

Image
With hindsight it was probably a good thing i was a tad obsessive about the buildings and detailed up the side of the pub that, at the time of building it, I never thought anyone would see!
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
Will L
Posts: 2516
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Will L » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:46 pm

jim s-w wrote:... I have a thing for stations with much longer platforms than the trains that serve them. ...

I do agree, looks so much better. Platforms which barely fit the trains that use them is a modern accountant driven thing.

DougN
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby DougN » Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:07 am

Jim, looking fantastic. I would love to see the whole thing in its entirety one day. Might be a bit before I get back to the UK.

One thing on electronic drawings etc. is they have to be truly representative of what is made. I say that as I have a new project at work where I had to have a meeting this morning to be told that there was nothing to hold up 2 light weight columns!... So as we were onsite my comment was "why don't we go and do a double check?" Only to find they were supported by concrete slabs and the top restrained by another concrete slab!

(I must admit I would love to have access to a laser cutter like that! I have contractors at work who have full CNC routers who probably would cut things for me but the ability to cut and mark the way Tim's machine does!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling


Return to “jim s-w”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 1 guest