Brettell Road - Shuffling and testing

DougN
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby DougN » Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:24 am

I agree with Jim regarding roofs. I have used Iain Rice's method for strange odd pitches with weird valleys and cappings. In the "how to use wills sheets" books he used a piece of paper once the opening had been worked out. (yes I had a Wills pub kit out of square, but no one has ever spotted it). Once the ridge/s and the gutter line established keep the plane of the roof flat and look for the way the water gets away....
I found that the easiest and most logical solution. Alright I am a bit compulsive about this as I have to deal with it at work every so often!
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Phil O
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Phil O » Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:32 am

Dave Rowe's Spanish layout had a nighttime setting, ISTR he had a sort of tent over it.

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Terry Bendall
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:13 am

As always smashing work Jim. The weighbridge building is typical of small humble buildings that could once be seen all over the country (and still can be found if you look) with some patterned brickwork which are a joy to model.

Phil O wrote:Dave Rowe's Spanish layout had a nighttime setting,


The layout is Catalunya and it was actually built by Shirley Rowe with assistance from Dave. It can still be seen at Pecorama in Devon. The railway was only a small part of the secene which had lighting which went through a 24 hour period with sound as well - Spanish guitar music in the evening scene. Magic to see. :)

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:45 am

Terry Bendall wrote:Spanish guitar music in the evening scene. Magic to see. :)

Terry Bendall


Given many people consider Birmingham and the Black Country the birthplace of heavy metal I'm not sure that 'local' music would go down all that well at a show. :D
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Albert Hall
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Albert Hall » Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:25 am

How about the Peaky Blinders theme!

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JackBlack
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby JackBlack » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:36 am

The dull thudding of Sabbath playing in the upstairs room of a pub...


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Rod Cameron
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Rod Cameron » Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:51 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:As always smashing work Jim. The weighbridge building is typical of small humble buildings that could once be seen all over the country (and still can be found if you look) with some patterned brickwork which are a joy to model.

Phil O wrote:Dave Rowe's Spanish layout had a nighttime setting,


The layout is Catalunya and it was actually built by Shirley Rowe with assistance from Dave. It can still be seen at Pecorama in Devon. The railway was only a small part of the secene which had lighting which went through a 24 hour period with sound as well - Spanish guitar music in the evening scene. Magic to see. :)

Terry Bendall


Outstanding work as always Jim.

Shirley's Catalunya, with a nighttime shot of a part of it.

P1010041 copy.JPG


P1010042 copy.JPG
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Steve Carter
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Steve Carter » Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:30 pm

JackBlack wrote:The dull thudding of Sabbath playing in the upstairs room of a pub...


:thumb
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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:09 pm

One aspect of making Brettell Road longer is that the original fiddleyards will need to be replaced. As such the opportunity will be taken to increase their length from four feet to five which means I can increase the cassettes from three feet long to four and a half.  Any bigger than that and cassettes start to become unpractical and a bit sketchy anyway.

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A four and a half feet long freight train on Brettell road.

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A four coach passenger train.  When I built this originally one of the (then 3 coaches) wasn't finished as I hadn't detailed up the underframe yet and just swapped the bogies.  This was due to Brettell Road's first outing coming up (Scaleforum 2018) and it never got moved from the 'roundtuit' list since.

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But when another cheap coach popped up I decided to get this little train ticked off so they were both detailed up together.  Leaving just one thing outstanding...

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...the brake pipes.  I admit to not using working ones on my wagons, as the layout is principally a shunting one,  but as this is a fixed rake of coaches why not?  I came up with the original idea for this back around 2005 and articles appeared in update and MRJ.  The original update article can be downloaded from here - https://p4newstreet.com/articlePDFs/Update42pipes.pdf.  Where  I have differed from my original article is to have one long pipe for the vac pipe and another long pipe for the steam heat pipe I figured 4 short pipes would just stick together in a clump!  So theres a magnet on the end of the pipe that connects to a magnet in the bufferbeam.  All simple stuff really but it does mean that the coaches and their pipes have to be couple up or the pipe will drag on the track and no doubt get stuck!
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grovenor-2685
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:26 pm

jim s-w wrote:But when another cheap coach popped up I decided to get this little train ticked off so they were both detailed up together. Leaving just one thing outstanding... ...the brake pipes.

er, and the bright shiny roofs? :)
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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:48 pm

The layout is set in the rain Keith. ;)
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grovenor-2685
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:20 pm

Glad you put a smily on that reply.
My memory of suburban roofs in steam days, and I used to watch them from bridges quite a lot is roofs covered in the ash from the chimney and not even rain would make them a lovely shiny grey. Odd roofs straight out of the shops would be clean but I only remember seeing them on corridor stock, I don't think the suburbans were getting repaints when they were due for replacement by DMUs.
And I'd love to see the lovely job you would make of weathering the roofs.
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Noel
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:42 pm

I like the connections between the coaches - I'd never thought of doing it that way - it looks very convincing.

Am I correct in thinking that the leading Banana van is an LMS D2111 or BR 1/240 using a modified Red Panda chassis? I can't tell from the photo if it has the steam pipe casing up the end, but what I can see looks like an LMS clasp brake chassis.
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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:24 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:Glad you put a smily on that reply.
My memory of suburban roofs in steam days, and I used to watch them from bridges quite a lot is roofs covered in the ash from the chimney and not even rain would make them a lovely shiny grey. Odd roofs straight out of the shops would be clean but I only remember seeing them on corridor stock, I don't think the suburbans were getting repaints when they were due for replacement by DMUs.
And I'd love to see the lovely job you would make of weathering the roofs.


The roofs are weathered under the gloss. Like complete sad case I spent a afternoon on the footbridge at Kidderminster in the rain looking at carriage roofs. It's the angle of the picture but they are nearly black.

In the era the layout is set the mk1s would still be pretty new (ish)
Last edited by jim s-w on Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:29 pm

Noel wrote:Am I correct in thinking that the leading Banana van is an LMS D2111 or BR 1/240 using a modified Red Panda chassis? I can't tell from the photo if it has the steam pipe casing up the end, but what I can see looks like an LMS clasp brake chassis.


Yep you are. Diagram 2111. The body is from the ratio kit and the underframe is the standard LMS clasp brake design but with a shorter 9 ft wheelbase rather than the usual 10 ft.

I'll have to look into the 1/240 version you mention

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Jim
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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:44 pm

Took a couple of pics from bridges with my phone. To be honest I don't think they help much. :?

IMG_20221106_203809.jpg

IMG_20221106_203905.jpg
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Noel
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:26 pm

jim s-w wrote:iagram 2111. The body is from the ratio kit and the underframe is the standard LMS clasp brake design but with a shorter 9 ft wheelbase rather than the usual 10 ft.

Thanks, Jim. I had got the origin wrong, though, I should have said Parkside, of course. Sorry. BR 1/240 is, so far as I have been able to find out, identical to 2111. I'm afraid neither ever had the yellow spot, though, at least not officially, although both seem to have been, photographically speaking, rather elusive in BR days.
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Rod Cameron » Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:07 pm

jim s-w wrote:Took a couple of pics from bridges with my phone. To be honest I don't think they help much. :?


Actually Jim I think that second photo is very convincing :thumb

On the subject of train and fiddle yard/cassette lengths, have you yet got to the point of thinking 'hmmm. maybe a round-roundy is an option'? :mrgreen:
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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:09 pm

The thought of speaking to Tim and shortening the universal fiddle yard *might* have crossed my mind!
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:59 pm

For all of my lifetime, certainly my time aware of railways, mainline diesel locomotives have been powered by a diesel engine driving electric traction motors. However the Western region was never really one to follow what everyone else was doing and invested heavily in Diesel hydraulics. Of those the largest class and the only one to fit into the type 3 category were the Hymeks of which I missed out on.  When I was born there were half a dozen still in service and they were withdrawn before I had transitioned from a 4 legged human to a 2 legged one. So they are all a bit alien really.

Apart from the transmission (and the idea of a mainline loco with gear changes) there were other things that were a bit odd. Why wasn't the radiator fan housing central?  Why didn't they use no.1 and no.2 ends, Instead of having A and B and why was the radiator at the back not the front like everything else?  Despite all the weirdness they were attractive little locos though so when a Heljan one popped up cheaply on Ebay (described as having intermittent running) I put in a cheeky bit and as no one else did, a Hydraulic is coming to Brettell Road.

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Not having any 00 track I didn't investigate the reported running problems but the Heljan wheels were filthy and having swapped them out for some Alan Gibson ones no running issues were encountered. This model is one of Heljan's early efforts and in terms of getting the shape right still one of their best. However there are a few tweaks that can be done. The roof horns were broken so they were replaced with Markits brass ones.  The buffers were a bit naff so those were replaced with Lanarkshire Models ones.  The numbers and builders plates are from Shawplan/Extreme etches.  The rest is really down to working with what Heljan give you.  The bodyside windows are flush glazed but not flush enough so they were cut out and remounted. The cab side and door windows are fine but I did add the droplight strips from 10x10 microstrip.

Not much to do on the chassis really - I added the mileometer on the leading axle of the B end (left) and I thought the pipework on the bogie frame at the A end was a little too fine so replaced it with wire.

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This is the A end from the other side.  As I was doing an early batch loco I carefully cut off the headboard clips and touched in the yellow.  The windscreens were also not flush enough but it was easier to just replace them  with clear plastic cut to shape.  Oddly the glazing on the headcode box (yes i know the headcode is wrong for the train) was too flush so this was replaced as well. Windscreen wipers are again from Shawplan and the brake pipes are from Hornby (the loco wasn't supplied with any). I also remounted the tank under the bufferbeam and added a little pipework.  To avoid confusion when it comes to DCC I've followed the diesel electric convention and set the fan end as forward.

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The model is weathered to look new but not 10 yards from the factory new. Im aiming for a few months and bear in mind the layout is set in autumn. There seems to be a tendency among modelers to weather Hydraulic locos to look an absolute state and most of them did end up that way in real life.  So basically washes that I've pretty much cleaned off again as best I can before light dustings of track colour and roof dirt. This was followed with streaks from AK interactive spilt fuel and grease before finally the obligatory rain effect. Diesel locos tend to have characteristic weathering which is unique to each class (something which a lot of professionally weathered locos you see seem utterly devoid of). Class 24 to 27 have the water stain from the roof, just inboard of the fan.  Class 50s have 3 leaks that run down the fuel tanks, class 20s have an odd direction for the staining deposits from the exhaust and class 31s have the oil leaks through the bodyside at floor level.  Hymeks have this too but not as much and from my research only later in their (short) lives.  They do however have a distinctive leak on the fuel tanks and this seemed to have been from new.

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Any reason for D7022?  Ive always had an affinity for the Lickey incline and these 3 locos were all regulars on banking duties over the years.  The Hymeks went there much later than Brettell Road is set and were the second class of diesel to work the incline.  The first being English Electric type 3s (class 37).  A lot of Hymeks worked the Lickey but the initial ones were D7021-D7025.  In his book, A life on the Lickey, Pat Wallace talks about them and mentioned that early on they preferred to have the A end facing north (up the gradient).  If a loco turned up the wrong way round it was sent to Worcester to be turned on the triangle. He doesn't give any detail on why this was the case but you could lock out first gear in a Hymek and the equipment cabinet for this was in the A end.  The locos definitely had first gear locked out while on this duty. This was because the change from first to second gear was right in the range where trains were banked and they could snatch. The Hymeks having only one engine were a little worse for this than the Warships and Westerns.

One little anecdote Pat also mentions concerns the 17th January 1968 when a kitten was discovered in the engine room of D7025. He was adopted and named Hymek (of course).  He crops up again 10 days later when he had managed to hide himself in the bogie of D7022 and refused to come out.  It was reported that Hymek the kitten did 4 trips up the Lickey!

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Highpeak
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Highpeak » Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:47 pm

The rainy night look is very convincing in that final picture. When are you going to make the wipers work? I'm saying that with a smile, but knowing some of the stuff you've done it wouldn't surprise me if you did!
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Albert Hall
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Albert Hall » Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:20 am

The reason for the offset radiator group was because there was a gangway down one side just like on the tenders of some Gresley Pacifics. Convention dictated that the no.1 or A end of a loco was at the free end of the power unit. No.2 or B end was the drive end, either the main and auxiliary generator in the case of a diesel electric loco or the transmission drive in the case of the Hymeks. They were a compact design with the radiator group and low mounted transmission accommodated in the same area. There was a narrow access we referred to as the transmission tunnel between the radiators and over the prop shafts to reach the transmission temperature switches. The ideal sort of person to get in there was a slim and flexible young apprentice, not a portly electrician with creaky joints.. It was generally considered to be game over if the engine was started while you were in there so it was imperative to take precautions to make sure nobody pressed the start button. I believe it did happen at Old Oak Common once with fatal consequences. As to why A and B end rather than No.1 and 2, no idea!

Roy

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:47 am

Thanks Roy.

Interesting stuff
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Albert Hall
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Albert Hall » Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:12 pm

I think your model captures the look of this type of loco really well Jim. This was the most attractive livery in my opinion, spoilt when they went to large yellow ends. Not only did I witness them in their final years but I also underlined a lot of the higher numbered ones in my Abc passing the bottom of the garden as they were delivered. I remember having to look twice when I saw a shiny one with D7100 on the side. Never did find out why the order was for 101 locos.

A decade ago, I helped resurrect D7018 with the D&EPG at Williton. This was one of our ex-Bath Road locos I had probably banged my head inside on a few occasions. The wiring was showing its age but, bearing in mind this loco had survived twice as long being tinkered with in preservation as it did with BR, that came as no surprise.

Great performers and far superior than the likes of the heavy but underpowered class 31s which replaced them. It was a few years before their equal in the shape of the class 37s arrived on the English side of the Severn Tunnel on a regular basis with our own small allocation for stone traffic.

Roy

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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Tony Wilkins » Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:34 pm

One of my fond memories of the Hymeks was when staying at Tenby in 1970. I arrived back at Carmarthen after a day out to Newport, to find the DMU to Fishguard service was replaced by a Hymek and 3 mk1 coaches. Once round the curve and back onto the mainline the loco was opened up and just took off, a most impressive performance. I was sorry to have to get off at Whitland, the next stop, to get my connecting DMU to Tenby. It was the only time I was hauled by one and over all too soon.
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