Brettell Road - Shuffling and testing

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1972
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:42 am

jim s-w wrote:Perhaps a lot may have changed between the mid 50s and the mid 70s Noel.


A lot did, mostly the replacement of wood by plastic for crates, of glass by plastic for bottles, and of wood by steel for casks. Pubs and off licences started stocking more soft drinks, wines and mixers as the pub clientele in particular became less male dominated, and the types of beer sold started to change and storage methods changed accordingly, with refrigeration of beers becoming more common. Wooden casks were never airtight, meaning that beer in them started to deteriorate immediately it left the brewery, so most pubs would not be storing it in large amounts, even in a cool cellar. This meant placing and receiving orders every day, and pubs could, and did sometimes, run out of beer altogether on hot days.

jim s-w wrote:It’s always a good thing when a layout gets someone reminiscing.


Just making the point that I had some idea of what I was on about, Jim. Human memory is not reliable, but first hand knowledge may still be useful, and even a camera can lie. Drays on a multi-drop round might look somewhat like this https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Brewery/Wilsons-Brewery-Manchester-168463019930250/. No date, of course, it could even be in preservation, although this is unlikely I think, as it is carrying a mixture of wooden and plastic crates plus two sizes of cask, which is more detail than would be usual for preservationists.

A couple of pictures from what was once a major Birmingham brewery https://www.midlandspubs.co.uk/breweries/enlargements/ansells-brewery-deck.htm https://www.midlandspubs.co.uk/images/breweries/ansells-brewery-dray-and-tanker.jpg, taken from https://www.midlandspubs.co.uk/breweries/birmingham/ansells-brewery.htm, plus some of their drays https://www.stilltimecollection.co.uk/collection/tpt-transport-truck-lorry-wagon-leyland-dray-brewery-beer-brewing-ansells-birmingham-midlands-D6F3

A real twin steer dray in preservation https://www.flickr.com/photos/45676495@N05/15822022144, apparently original to Hancocks. The kegs are modern, of course.
Regards
Noel

shipbadger
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:00 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby shipbadger » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:42 pm

The Wilson's Brewery wagon is interesting. It was a special design (nicknamed Sabrina after a certain well built young lady) designed to allow the then 'standard' three man crew to be accomodated in the cab. Moving the engine forward allowed sufficient space. This was one of the reasons the venerable Dennis Pax remained popular with the brewing industry for many years after forward control trucks had become the nrom in other parts of the haulage industry.

Tony Comber

shipbadger
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:00 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby shipbadger » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:49 pm

Like many other aspects of the brewery industry now long gone, but the Whitbread Distribution depot in Gloucester was at the forefront of getting the platform height of drays lower. The principal way of doing it was to use smaller wheels but the way in which the actual (usualy aluminium) body was made and attached to the chassis was also considered. At least one example used lift up doors before the now almost universal sliding curtains came to be used. The Taughtliner curtains at least need to be closed when loaded and moving as they are a 'structural' component. I'm not sure about other manufacturers but I suspect they are the same. The only time you are likely to see a curtainsider moving with the curtains back is when empty and strong cross winds are being encountered.

Tony Comber

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:52 pm

Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:55 pm

Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

shipbadger
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:00 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby shipbadger » Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:22 pm

'interesting manoeuvre'

Once common for fairground/circus vehicles as well as 'waggon and drag' combinations to have an offset front hitch. Before the fitment of cameras it provided a much better view of where you were going rather than leaning out of the cab or looking in the rather small mirrors provided at the time. It is still possible to buy a towbar, or perhaps it should be pushbar, for a Land Rover. My old series two had a front mounted hitch, jolly useful at times.

Tony Comber

Terry Bendall
Forum Team
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:56 pm

shipbadger wrote:
Once common for fairground/circus vehicles as well as 'waggon and drag' combinations to have an offset front hitch.


I have seen a front hitch on vehicles (often Land Rovers) used by the owners/ managers of caravan sites for "shunting" caravans.

Terry Bendall

John Palmer
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby John Palmer » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:10 pm

So far as I am aware, push poles remain in common use for the shunting of 'dead' steam road vehicles, perhaps more than was formerly the case since many owners take their engines to events by low loader rather than under their own steam - which is much more enjoyable!

I'd be interested to hear more of Jim's experience of making small signs such as that for the bus stop. I've never achieved satisfactory results printing onto ordinary paper with a laser printer, but have done much better using an inkjet printing to glossy photographic paper. The disadvantage of this, of course, is the high gloss finish of the the resulting article, but I have generally been able to cure this to my satisfaction with a waft of matt varnish. It is possible to thin down the printed sign by abrading away part of the paper thickness, though on occasion I have overdone this and so destroyed the artwork. For reducing the signs to scale size I have got the best results out of the graphics capability of a word processor, unlike some dedicated graphics programs, which can have a nasty habit of reducing your beautifully drawn master to an indistinct jumble of a few jagged pixels. I suspect this may be due to the graphics program insisting on the maintenance of the original artwork's resolution rather than increasing it to maintain the original's appearance as the size is reduced, but whatever the reason it seems to be something that my word processor software handles more gracefully. This also means that I can prepare the artwork master to a scale far larger than 4mm : 1', and apply such effects of weathering etc to it as I wish before reducing it to finished size.

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:26 pm

Hi John

I tend to redraw everything in abode illustrator and, like you print onto gloss paper. I’ve had success splitting the paper layers with a new scalpel blade to thin it down. If I need to take the artwork through photoshop then I will import it at 900dpi minimum. The pub sign and station closing posters were done this way although the latter was printed on normal inkjet paper. I too will use a waft of Matt varnish to seal everything. I use the same arrangement for my lorry transfers with printable water slide paper. You will, of course, need a light background for these. I use 3 coats of Matt varnish on these before using them as decals.

Cheers

Jim
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

John Palmer
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby John Palmer » Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:00 pm

Thanks, Jim, that's helpful. Thinking back, I believe I also had some success in thinning the paper using a single edged razor blade.

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 911
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby steve howe » Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:23 pm

Lovely work Jim, I particularly like the view of the slips under the overbridge and the lovely tandem in the yard, :thumb

How is New Street these days? ;)

Steve

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:45 pm

steve howe wrote:How is New Street these days? ;)


Stored! The end of this month marks a decade since its last outing. :o
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:48 pm

Remember the diagram 1973 mineral wagon I posted a few entries ago?  As pointed out at the time I missed some of the reinforcing bits that were added after they were built. Im not sure how as they were in the prototype pictures I was looking at!  Anyway thats been corrected now

Image

Ive finished off  a few Bachmann RTR wagons too.

Image
The steel high-fit was actually already done.  Ive just added a container to it. The other 2 are actually 2 of the 3 vans I first brought for the layout. Discounted in Modellers Mecca bargain bin!  The tarpaulin is black latex cut from a surgical glove.

Image
When I built the retaining wall for this side of the bridge I did intend to do something a little more substantial but decided that It would look weird if the wall was 2 different designs. However a friend mentioned that the buttresses looked a little too puny so I reverted to what i should have done originally and modified the existing wall to match.  I admit I did want something more grandiose than this but for where it is it wouldn't have made a lot of sense to have something to elaborate. I definitely don't subscribe to that inane 'rule 1' idea of its your layout do what you want.  There has to be some degree of plausibility in there somewhere.

Clutter - What is a yard if it doesn't have some clutter in it?  Much like the retaining walls though you don't want to go too mad.  At the end of the day this is someones product and they aren't all that likely to leave it lying around on the floor.

Image
So I opted for 3 small groups of stuff as can be seen above.

Image
I always wanted some coal facility and I had this in mind when I built my tractor.  Again nothing too posh, no coal staithes or anything like that - just a few piles and some more clutter.  The steps, scales and the conveyor (behind the tractor) are 3D prints kindly donated by my friend John.

Finally a couple more evening shots.

Image
Image
Image
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

essdee
Posts: 554
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:47 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby essdee » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:54 pm

Superb modelling, Jim. Not my area or period at all - but still hugely evocative! A Michael Mensing feel to it? That tired platform vegetation and the combination of modern DMU with 'life-expired' timber buildings is lovely. The spotter's picnic would have a Lyons individual fruit pie?
Looking forward to further developments,

Cheers,

Steve

BrockleyAndrew
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:27 pm

Hello Jim,

As ever so impressed with your work-rate and quality of work. I also admire the "just do it and move on" attitude.

Do you have a to-do list? I read, many years ago an article, possibly in the 2mm society newsletter if I remember correctly, about writing a Project Management plan for the Layout. Although I did think at the time that it was over-the-top and another delaying stage to prevent work, it was also a good article about planning and focus.
Was just wondering if you tackle your objectives in a highly structured way, just push on with what interests you at the moment, or a combination of the two?

I find that I really have to break any spare time down into achievable tasks. Not having a dedicated workspace means that set-up/pull-down adds to the inertia.

Do you allocate time periods or do task priority?

Your work rate is admirable!

Andrew

bécasse
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby bécasse » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:42 am

Project Management plans for P4 layouts are nothing new. Indeed, Bembridge, which was pretty much the first 50+ years ago, had a PM plan and, more importantly, the associated flow charts. John Newton, one of the five, was a commissioning engineer and was used to using them in his professional life. Given the tight timescale of around 18 months that we had set ourselves, it was important that no time was wasted unnecessarily by doing tasks in the wrong order. Because he was familiar with the routine it didn't take John long to produce an initial tentative plan which was then rejigged and firmed up by collective discussion - which mainly centred around identifying critical tasks that had been missed on the initial trawl. We found the resulting flow charts to be particularly useful and I doubt whether the layout would have made its Easter 1971 exhibition commitment without them.

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:31 pm

Thanks all

I don’t have a plan just a vague idea and I do tend to dip in and out of whatever takes my fancy. I actually think I probably have Aphantasia which is an inability to mentally picture anything (I’ve never remembered a dream in my whole life) so I wonder if that’s why I have to actually make my ‘pictures’. I remember bringing this up decades ago on an artists forum, I was working professionally as an illustrator at the time, and a lot of arty types seem to have it. So as I create a scene I’m kind of discovering it for myself at the same time. It’s why I go on so much about finding pictures and copying what I see because without the pictures, I don’t see anything! ;)
I think I’m getting better at finishing something before moving on as I find once a project stalls it’s quite difficult to get it going again.

The nearest I get to deadlines is based on when I have days off so I will try to aim for those to reach certain stages and I set mini targets of what I want to get done. I guess although I do a 40 hr week it helps that they are condensed into 4 days so every 3 weeks I get 2 little runs of 3 days off together.

Also helps that I’m incredibly boring. I don’t drink and I don’t watch a vast amount of TV. :D
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
Mike Garwood
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Mike Garwood » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:48 pm

Jim

The work you produce is anything but boring!

Mike

DougN
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby DougN » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:20 am

That is all very interesting Jim. Personally I am not bad a drawing an idea. Infact people tell me I am pretty good at drawing for technical ideas. (well it is part of my day job) (funny aside, I was in a meeting with a subcontractor and my Contract admin who was female... I said I will have to do a sketch only to have her say "I love a good doodle" ... the subby and I just looked each other than at the CA... who by this time was bright red.... we all burst out laughing... she never lived that one down)

Your right about the problem of "finishing" items. I am struggling to get back to a few items I have started but never got around to finishing. I seem to be able to start new projects and get them finished but not the older ones. I am trying to get back to a couple this comming long weekend.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:12 pm

Image
Been fiddling with bits of brass again. I wouldn't normally bother taking a picture of something as simple as a point lever but I found that the ones I built before were a little vulnerable and easily bent.  I haven't changed the ones I use (Shirescenes) but what I have done is doubled up the levers themselves and they now seem a lot more robust.

I've built platform trollies before to but this time I have changed the supplier.  I think my previous ones were Scalelink but this one is from London Road Models and is much more detailed. It even had a representation of the brake linkages.  Regular readers will no doubt know by now I'm a sucker for this sort of thing!  The trolly is shown perched on a two pence piece for scale.

Image
Moving on to something a little more obvious.  This is the Churchward models (now sold by Phoenix models) footbridge kit shown in temporary position.  As my track spacing is quite wide here I did need to extend the main arch by one panel and, luckily as the etches for the arch are the same, I could use the spare bits that weren't needed on the facing side. The sides were cut and shut with  the new panels grafted in meaning the only bit I needed to fabricate from scratch was the main span floor.  An enjoyable kit to build this one.
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Paul Townsend » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:26 am

I am interested in other people’s project management thoughts……

In my original venture into P4 in the 70s, I was a founder member of the Bristol AG of P4 Society, kick started by the much missed Ken York.
The group built 3 exhibition models over some 5-6 years and we had an amazing work speed!

It was only possible because we had Obergrueppenfuerer Tony White driving us, he sure had a plan and a whip. Due to inexperience we made several big mistakes but learnt from them very well.

By 1979 I walked away saying "this management pressure is too much like my day job" and started my own big project Highbridge. That was initially a solo project but very soon a couple of like minded chums joined in and have stayed with it for 40 years !

I was then working for BBC as a project engineer. The broadcasting industry is unusual in that it usually operates multi-million pound projects to a published timetable and delivers on time within 10 seconds of the promise. That is good for management discipline but entails stress levels that we really don't want in our hobby !

To me one of the big attractions of our MR capers is the huge range of skills that we acquire. That enables us to turn to a second or third task when the first ones go askew. I find that a wonderful way of recharging the Mojo and maintaining momentum.

So my concept for Highbridge was parallel tasking management with zero timescale commitment.....seems to have suited we three.

Come my third retirement in 2010, I found the total absence of stress to be a downer....my metabolism seems to require just the right level of stress to achieve anything. Hence my re-commitment to exhibitable models and the new project for Dartmouth.......

See you in RailWells 2022 ?

Terry Bendall
Forum Team
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:01 pm

Paul Townsend wrote:my metabolism seems to require just the right level of stress to achieve anything.


See you in RailWells 2022 ?

Set yourself the target to finish Dartmouth for Railwells 2022 Paul. That should be sufficient stress! :D Or at least get all the track finished, wired up, running and ballasted.

Terry Bendall

Alan Turner
Posts: 643
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:24 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby Alan Turner » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:38 am

Confused of Dudley here!

You have a Midland Railway signal box and a Midland Railway footbridge but a LNWR station building - would you care to explain?

regards

Alan

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:18 am

The real Brettell road was western region and the midland got as near as Dudley a few stops down the line. I wanted to keep the wooden look to the buildings of the OWWR but wanted a midland feel over the Western look (although I use western locos as well).
So looking at local midland ish lines and stations such as Kings Heath, the Halesowen branch and nearer to Birmingham I found these style buildings got pretty near (Aston station was a good example)
So it’s a bit of a mix and match (I don’t want a corporate everything matches chocolate box look) and it’s reasonable to assume that bits were swapped out or moved around with things being repurposed from other sites. In fact because I sited my signal box in the wrong place originally but didn’t realise until I cut the boards and laid the track theres actually evidence of another signal box on the other platform (in the platform face and the way the siding behind it skews around a building that’s not there. Of course this was all perfectly designed from the beginning (not at all! :D )

There’s actually multiple examples of this style of footbridge with similar style buildings provided in the instructions from Churchward Models
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:43 pm

Image
This is a little model of the crossing box from Level Street, modelled in its abandoned state.  Ive taken a bit of artistic licence with this as the real building appeared after the layout is set and lasted into the early 1980s.  Round oak did tend to move and rebuild things a lot though so a building that became redundant whilst still relatively new wouldn't have been that unusual for the area. Plus as anyone who's ever researched a real place will know, not everything at a location will always make a lot of sense.  The model is scratch-built with the nifty alarm bell a 3d print kindly supplied by Richard Of Mudmagnet Models.

Image
A few bits dumped agains the platform fence give just a hint that the station doesn't have long left.

Image
When I rebuilt my loading gauge (a while ago now) I actually built another one at the same time.  The frame is scratch-built from brass sections and the bow from Smiths.  This actually serves a purpose as provided the layout is properly levelled this is the point where a free rolling wagon will start to move as the siding descends to the same level as the mainline.

Image
Elements of a rudimentary water tower. The prototype for this stood on the Earl of Dudley's railway at the link between Oak Lane and Stallings Lane, Near to Himley's No.8 pit.   It survived until 1950.   Its Heath Robinson look appealed to me.

Image
In position on the layout.  Its days of servicing the EoD fleet of 0-4-0 saddle tanks are long gone.

Image
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!


Return to “jim s-w”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 1 guest