Interior Details of Engine Sheds

[Knuckles]

I've been 3D designing, printing and painting some bits to go in my large engine shed project that I'm hardly showing the 'net until it's done.

I've got 2 friends who work at steam railways and they approve of most the items done although there are a few questionable choices expressed.

Anyway, point being is I don't know many MPD practices and have been working mostly off my memories of visiting preserved steam sheds n the odd photograph online so I freely admit you may have many things to 'rivet count' over and that's ok although I'll be using them on my layout regardless.

All the designs I pulled directly out of my rear end. Quite pleased with how well they 3D printed (25um) and very happy with my hand painted results, all turned out better than I initially envisioned.

I may release some bits for sale if there is any real interest (let us know) but unsure.

This thread could over time perhaps morph into a database or archive showing engine shed interior details?? Time will tell.

For now please see what you think. : )

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[Albert Hall]

Very good selection. I'm thinking back to my days working at Bath Road diesel depot whereby the Heavy Lift Shop was a hangover from steam days. I would say that large spanners were definitely from a previous era and more matt black rather than silver. I expect the metallurgist amongst us will be able to explain the grade of steel used but the shiny chrome finish seemed to come in a bit later. I still have my set of AF and Whitworth spanners from the 1970's. Likewise the jaws and handles on the vices would be dark grey to black. The crowbar and sledgehammer came in handy at times.

General use tools were kept on a shadow board in the workshop. Fitters kept their personal tools in a half height grey locker. There was one individual whose locker was so well organised he could pick out what he wanted with his eyes closed. A place for everything and everything in its place. One of our members will know who I am talking about. That was his father.

The wooden pallet was the method of choice for delivery and storage of heavy materials, together with a method of moving the pallets. Either a fork lift truck or a hand operated hydraulic lift trolley. Apart from barrels, we had spare buffers on pallets in the stores as well as brake blocks.

I imagine the steam shed would have some sort of hand jacks either hydraulic or ratchet type. Being a larger depot we had a machining bay with a lathe, pillar drill, milling machine and mechanical hacksaw. Plenty of scope for the 3D printer I imagine.

Roy

[essdee]

Nice idea - and a steady hand too, Gavin!

I can see some atmospheric interior dioramas/cameos resulting there..

Cheers,

Steve

[Noel]

Likewise the jaws and handles on the vices would be dark grey to black.

My father owned a large vice from the 1960s, probably second-hand even then. The unpainted jaws and operating parts were difficult to distinguish from the black painted castings except on close inspection. I suspect iron rather than steel for the castings, at least.

The wooden pallet was the method of choice for delivery and storage of heavy materials, together with a method of moving the pallets. Either a fork lift truck or a hand operated hydraulic lift trolley.

Pallets would not have been used before the 1960s, as far as I know, and I would question their use for moving drums of that size, as a full drum would probably be potentially quite unstable when moved on anything but a perfectly flat surface. On the subject of the drums, even before H & S best practice would have them capped while standing, to keep rubbish out and ensure no ignition source got in. And how do you get the contents out? I would have expected a tap in place of the screw cap on top, with the drum horizontal on some sort of stand, so that smaller containers can be filled for daily use, or possibly a hand pump of some sort with the drum vertical?

[Albert Hall]

At the rear of Bath Road main shed was indeed a substantial metal rack which held 45 gallon drums of the various oils we used horizontally. Taps were fitted to allow small containers to be filled. Drums were mostly red bodies with yellow ends, Shell products IIRC.

[Tony Wilkins]

I have often wondered with 45 gallon drums whether the colour of the drum bore any relation to the contents or was it down to the supplier.
Regards
Tony.

[Terry Bendall]

Some nice ideas.

I suspect iron rather than steel for the castings, at least.

An engineer's vice was traditionally, and for that matter still is, made from cast iron with hardened steel facings to the jaws. The handle and screw thread would be made from mild steel. Those made by Record Tools which once were very common were originally painted a darkish blue but in use would have got dirty. My father ran a small engineering business in the 1950s and his vices had no paint left on them at all but they probably dated from pre 1939. Traditionally the jaws of the vice should be of a height to match the elbow of the user which means that the height of the actual bench would be around 36 - 38 inches. That would make the spanner on the bench with two vices fitted very large. The shiny chrome finish on spanners tended to come in from the early 1960s. Earlier ones often had a bright steel finish which would often get quite shiny from frequent use. Anyone on here who works on a preserved line will be able to advise on the size of larger spanners needed. Some time back I helped to restore a main line diesel loco (a class 50) and it was rare to use spanners larger than 1 inch BSW.

Terry Bendall

[Albert Hall]

To the best of my recollection, and I'm sure someone will slap me down if I'm wrong, I don't think there was a colour code for drums. Red with yellow ends seemed to be the predominant colour but they would have been various grades of oils and greases from Shell. An exception was Motak, the grease we used in traction motor gearcases. Thicker than heavy fuel oil used in ships, it was normal to dig it out of the drum and feed lumps of it through the filler by hand. I think those drums were either matt black or dark blue.

When our diesel hydraulic crane arrived, all the hydraulic oil was in yellow drums with silver/unpainted ends and a handle. They were smaller, probably around 10 gallons and able to be lifted by hand. A newly arrived pile of these drums stacked outside the stores was demolished one day when a class 08 shunter was driven off the end of the road. The stores clerk was a bit shocked to find his desk sitting virtually on top of the cab. Probably woke him up from his afternoon nap.

There was a selection of very large spanners in the Heavy Lift Shop, probably as much as 4 inches across the flats. They would have been from the steam era not having much purpose on a diesel loco. Then of course there was the 3 and 4 foot long adjustable stilsons which was more of a pipe wrench. I was reminded recently that a true engineer would not have had an adjustable spanner in his toolkit. I'm wondering when the torque wrench was introduced, Presumably there was a time when the skilled engineer knew how far to tighten a nut without such an aid.

Roy

[barrowroad]

A few years ago, more like ten, I met a former railwayman, Donald Flook, who used to be in charge of the former Midland Workshop at the rear of Bristol Barrow Road Shed. Donald was a mine of information providing photographs and stories about the shed and it's staff. I asked Donald if he could give me any details of the equipment used in the machine shop next to the workshop and he drew a sketch identifying the position and type of equipment from memory.

Workshop Equipment - Donald Flook.jpg

If anyone can point me to information on any of this equipment, drawings or photos etc I would be grateful.
Any 4mm scale models would be appreciated

[Tim V]

How about these? Old centre lathe, forge with bellows, and not sure about the third one. And with an S&D connection - the workshop at Emborough quarry.

[Noel]

To the best of my recollection, and I'm sure someone will slap me down if I'm wrong, I don't think there was a colour code for drums. Red with yellow ends seemed to be the predominant colour but they would have been various grades of oils and greases from Shell.

As far as I know, drums containing oils and greases usually came in house colours for the major producers, so red with a yellow centre band [perhaps with red logos on it] and end were Shell, BP were green and white, green and yellow or plain green, Esso were red and white, but the logo location varied, Regent used red and white as well. Castrol used green and white with their name in red on the white band and usually with green ends. In all cases there were a lot of variations over time as house styles and/or colours changed. Chemicals seem to have been in black or blue drums mostly, sometimes with white or yellow bands. Definitely a case for consulting contemporary photos, if you can find any...

[Knuckles]

Many thanks for the replies, was hoping this thread could turn into something more than just a few initial pics.

I'm unlikely going to repaint what I've done although any future items I will definitely try to incorporate as much as has been said. As said in the initial post a lot of these working practices and historic details I'm sadly ignorant of currently.

The large spanner on the desk with two vices is roughly 3 foot long, perhaps more at home on an oil rig? Unsure, although I know they get huge and steam loco's do require large tools once in a while. I didn't know about them being black back in the day so that's useful for any future models although I could just repaint them....might do. When looking into the engine shed you may see them easier if silver. Shed is freelance although chronologically about 1915 - early 30's max. Did they not use pallets then? (I've altered the design since these initial print outs slightly)

Good shout on pillar drills, Stiltsons, crowbars and other mentioned tools. May indeed bash out a new table CAD.

I've also made a generic wooden crate from stray planks thinking they might have used it as a giant scrap bin or heavy component hold.

[Albert Hall]

One thing which annoys me with some shed scene models is the odd rusty driving wheel lying around. Some depots may have been able to change a complete wheelset using sheer legs or jacks but fitting and removing wheels from axles was really a works job. And of course each depot would have to use the same standard of back to back gauge. Didn't we debate that one in another thread a few weeks ago???

Roy

[Noel]

Shed is freelance although chronologically about 1915 - early 30's max. Did they not use pallets then? (I've altered the design since these initial print outs slightly)

No. For a short history of pallets see https://www.nationalpallets.co.uk/blog/a-brief-history-of-pallets (alternative versions are available). I was a little out in my earlier dating, but it would take time after WW2 for fork lift trucks to become commonly available, and no fork lift or pallet truck on site, no way of moving a loaded pallet, so use of pallets would logically lag behind the availability of fork lifts.

[Knuckles]

Ok thanks for the info. What were drums n such kept on instead, just on the deck?

Think I'll create some brooms too, get sweeping n00b!

[Noel]

What were drums n such kept on instead, just on the deck?

See Albert Hall's post a little while back:

At the rear of Bath Road main shed was indeed a substantial metal rack which held 45 gallon drums of the various oils we used horizontally. Taps were fitted to allow small containers to be filled.

so outside, which is what I would expect. There would usually be a separate store building somewhere on site if there were a lot, otherwise they would be on a rack outside, the point being to minimise the amounts in the workshop and hence the fire risk.

[Knuckles]

Ok thanks. Now makes me think if the tap was fitted towards the drum bottoms or if there was some pressurised system to allow the taps to be fitted at the top.

Was thinking to have a drum or two in the shed or maybe a scraped one lounging outside.

EDIT: Just re-read.the thread. Key word 'Horizontally."'

Ok cool. So the drums I'd asume would have blocks or be strapped to stop them side rolling.

[Terry Bendall]

If anyone can point me to information on any of this equipment, drawings or photos etc I would be grateful.

The web site http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html has an archive section which givs the history of various machine tools and for some, dates when various different models were introduced. It includes British, US and European makes and has photos of different types and when they were introduced.

Prior to 1939 many workshops had overhead line shaft drives with flat leather belts but from the late 1940s these were being phased out in favour of individual electric motors. Some machines may have retained flat belts for the final drive but had indivudual motors. At one time the overhead line shafe would have been driven by a steam engine or later a gas engine or oil engine but some would have a large electric motor. My father's workshop, set up in the early 1950s, still had overhead line shaft for most of the machines with an electric motor drive. My first lathe, bought at least secondhand in about 1960 was a Myford ML4 machine with flat belt drive which dated from pre 1939.

A running shed such as Barrow Road would have had a modest range of machines as the sketch shows with heavy overhauls done and larger machines at a major works. In the sketch the emrey wheel is another name for a grinding machine for sharpening tools. Colchester lathes were well regarded in their time and the Herbert lathes even more so.

How about these? Old centre lathe, forge with bellows, and not sure about the third one.

The third item looks like a hydraulic press of some sort. The lathe is very old, probably pre 1914 or so. The forge and bellows is similar to what would have been found in most blacksmith's shops. I can recall visiting such shops in West Sussex in the 1950s - there were three active smiths at work within 5 miles of where we lived then. The forge at Barrow Road may well have had a rotary fan for the air source rather than bellows.

Some years back the diesel loco I help to restore was based at Eastleigh Works. The floor in some of the older part of the works was made from blocks of wood about 8 inches by 3 inches laid with the end grain facing upwards. This gave a durable wearing surface but not as hard on the feet as concrete. In some places the wood blocks had been covered with a thin layer of concrete. In some engineering works duckboards were common. These consisted of two planks about 8 or 9 inches wide with cross battens and long enough to go the whole length of the machine. These were intended to keep the user's feet off the cold concrete floor.

The web site mentioned about has a large section covering secondhand lathes and other machine tools for sale and there are often small lathes of the size that are useful in our scale for sale. Sometimes there are bargains to be had.

Terry Bendall

[Albert Hall]

Key word 'Horizontally."'

Ok cool. So the drums I'd asume would have blocks or be strapped to stop them side rolling.

The tap would be screwed into the round end at the bottom. A small cap diagonally opposite would be needed to allow air to enter to replace displaced fluid otherwise the flow would reduce to a dribble or the drum would collapse inwards due to the vacuum created. Wheel scotches were handy to stop barrels rolling away.

Another accessory for the railway shed/workshop is the 'Not to be moved' board' which came in several styles. I seem to recall inside Barrow Road shed there was a board on the wall with chalked on loco numbers. On the wall of the main shed at Bath Road was the clocking on clock together with two racks of clock cards, one for on duty, one for off duty.

Digressing slightly from interior details, one aspect of model steam sheds which tends to be underestimated is the number of open/mineral wagons needed to keep up with the supply of coal. Looking at a photo of Templecombe shed from the 1960s, I counted 3 locos and 20 plus wagons, empty and full. There was rarely a time on the diesel depot when there were no fuel tankers in the offloading siding with deliveries a few times a week. When the bean counters who ran the stores decided to save money by running the main tanks down to a minimal level, it turned into a 'just in time' delivery system which sometimes went pear shaped due to disruption (route blockages, industrial action or the spectacular own goal when most of what was left in the main tanks was sludge).

Roy

[Knuckles]

Many thanks for the details. Thinking maybe an outside shed or open shed perhaps would be better for what you suggest.

I've fitted some of the details, as much as I can bear.
Next shed I do will be a progression of the mistakes made on this one. In short, use plastic sheets to get a FLAT floor and make the roof removable, don't use polyfiller scrapings as I did as a main method - big mistake. I didn't use sheets and as a result there are big unsightly gaps at the engine shed base and where the details are fixed, have tried filling them multiple times to no avail. Has been trial and error fitting the details in and have damaged the thing around 8 times in the struggle.

If focusing on the errors it's obvious but as a overall impression I'm happy with the effect. Can't do anything about it (tried so much already) so just accepting it as a hard lesson.

Anyway, I have 1 picture to show. Don't want the 'net seeing until the main vid is complete.

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