What's inside a goods shed?

Inside the fence.
johnWM
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby johnWM » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:50 pm

According to the GWR journal index issue 40 has a drawing. Although not gauranteed to be the same type of crane of course.
I don't actually have this edition.

http://www.gwrjournal.com/issue.php?s=40

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:15 pm

Tim V wrote:I believe the one in the car park at Erwood station is one of these, I'll dig out a photo.


Yes please!

johnWM wrote:According to the GWR journal index issue 40 has a drawing. Although not gauranteed to be the same type of crane of course.
I don't actually have this edition.


Excellent, thank you. There's actually a copy of this on eBay at the moment.

Cheers, Nick

martin goodall
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby martin goodall » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:14 pm

I've only just come across this thread.

A couple of points occur, picking up on what as been written by others.

The shed crane would typically have a capacity of about 30cwt. My guess is that nearly all goods sheds would be so equipped, whereas a yard crane was not always provided. On the other hand, quite a few stations had both. The yard crane might have a capacity no greater than the crane in the shed (30cwt or 2 tons). Only a minority of yards seem to have had cranes of greater capacity (e.g. 6 tons or heavier). But you would certainly need a 6-ton crane in the yard if you wanted to handle containers.

The point about goods and packing materials is intriguing. I know of the photos mentioned, but how typical were they, or were they specially posed for the photographer? Valuable goods would obviously be locked away in the warehouse (a lean-to extension on many GWR goods sheds), but less valuable goods might be left on the deck to await collection. On the other hand, I imagine the porters were under pressure from the Station Master to keep the shed tidy, so I doubt whether you would have found great piles of stuff stacked on the deck (except in the large, busy sheds in major centres, where goods were probably passing across the deck 24/7).

Packaging would certainly have been got rid of fairly quickly - it would have been a fire hazard. I have a 'Macaw H' with straw packing strewn about the floor. It looks nice, but I am acutely aware that if a wagon were allowed to leave the yard in that condition someone would get a rocket. One spark from the engine, and the whole lot would go up in flames.

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:24 pm

To be honest I'm surprised that Lampeter had a 6 ton crane as it's a small town, but maybe it was to do with the university, which is right next to the station and dominates the town. The station diagram from 1913 has the crane listed, but it was removed at some point as it doesn't appear in any photos I have of the goods yard post 1960's, and the aerial photo I have from 1949, it appears not to be there, although it's difficult to see clearly. I've been unable to find any goods yards photos pre-1949.

Cheers, Nick

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Dave K
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Dave K » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:01 pm

JackBlack wrote:To be honest I'm surprised that Lampeter had a 6 ton crane as it's a small town, but maybe it was to do with the university, which is right next to the station and dominates the town. The station diagram from 1913 has the crane listed, but it was removed at some point as it doesn't appear in any photos I have of the goods yard post 1960's, and the aerial photo I have from 1949, it appears not to be there, although it's difficult to see clearly. I've been unable to find any goods yards photos pre-1949.


I've just got hold of a 1956 copy of the "Official Handbook of Stations" as published by the British Transport Commission. The listing for Lampeter shows that there was a 6 ton crane plus accommodation for livestock, horse boxes, goods but not coal.

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Tim V
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Tim V » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:10 pm

just found these pictures while I was looking for something else, the goods shed crane from Hallatrow (now don't get over excited dave k) taken shortly after the demolition of the goods shed early '76. Similar to the one at Erwood.

Hallatrowcrane3.jpg
Hallatrowcrane3.jpg (83.94 KiB) Viewed 11489 times

hallatrowcrae2.jpg
hallatrowcrae2.jpg (97.45 KiB) Viewed 11489 times

Hallatrowcrane1.jpg
Hallatrowcrane1.jpg (88.43 KiB) Viewed 11489 times
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:56 pm

Nice!

These cranes were fixed top and bottom?

There's a Langley gibbet loading crane that could be adapted maybe?

http://www.langleymodels.co.uk/acatalog ... 95_14.html (scroll to below the lamps).

Cheers, Nick

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:18 pm

Yes these cranes were secured top and bottom via metal plates to the floor and joists. The larger wheel went to the top and a handle was attached to the ratchet which can be seen in the second photograph - note the lettering which shows which way up the crane should be. I have been having a look for the Bathgate photographs, but I think they may be amongst photographs that are with others that are with a publisher at the moment. Tim's photos are better anyway as they are clear and the wood is not charred , so there is much more detail visible. You had to be careful with these ratchet cranes as, if the ratchet failed to drop into place the handle could take off and decapitate you.

Allan :)

johnWM
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby johnWM » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:57 am

The previously mentioned picture of the inside of Paignton shed shows one of these cranes in position. I am convinced the one in Paington shed is not fixed at the top. The photo also gives a lot of information as to how the ropes or chains where arranged.

Apologies for the crudeness of the sketch, but this gives a rough idea.
crane.JPG
crane.JPG (6.16 KiB) Viewed 11457 times

Tim's super close up pics show a gearing arrangement and what looks like a clutch/brake/locking lever of some kind. I would guess that the rope you pull on to lift a load goes over the big wheel. This acts as a force multiplier by driving a smaller wheel, a geared arrangement further increases the avialable lifting force? A clutch or locking pin holds the load while the lifting beam is being swung. Some of the ropes and gear wheels are probably also associated with adjusting the height of the lifting beam. But that's guesswork and all a bit vague.
Anyone know how these cranes actually worked?

It's amazing what is out there in www land.
http://www.modeltrainsnthings.com/images/stations/biggenden-goods-shed.jpg
The crane in this link looks much bigger and more substantial, but seems to function in a very similar way to the one in Paighton shed. It is an Australian prototype, but it is fixed only at its base.

I have also found this from the demolition of Stranraer. This one is fixed top and bottom, the bits lying in the yard after demolition look very similar to Tim's pictures, (as does the crane in Paignton shed)
http://www.arpg.org.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=13

Not really relevent to this thread, but I think interesting none the less are.
http://davidwallphoto.com/searchresults.asp?g=107&n=24838
I'm talking about the rusty yard crane, not the general snaps of the countryside and beaches.

and for dock side cranes this is a good read.
http://ribblesteam.multiply.com/journal/item/439/Dock_Cranes
Sorry about the 2 diversions at the end.

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Dave K
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Dave K » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:15 pm

Tim V wrote:just found these pictures while I was looking for something else, the goods shed crane from Hallatrow (now don't get over excited dave k) taken shortly after the demolition of the goods shed early '76. Similar to the one at Erwood.

Hallatrowcrane3.jpg

hallatrowcrae2.jpg

Hallatrowcrane1.jpg


I've been looking through the GWR Journal index for 'cranes' and in issue 71 are drawing of a 2 ton goods shed crane at Aldermaston and looking at the drawing it would seem to be similar to the photos Tim posted

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:36 pm

johnWM wrote:.I have also found this from the demolition of Stranraer. This one is fixed top and bottom, the bits lying in the yard after demolition look very similar to Tim's pictures, (as does the crane in Paignton shed)
http://www.arpg.org.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=13


These photos are great. Looking at what's chalked onto the cranes, is that one 1 1/2 ton crane, and one 1 ton?

I've got GWR Journal #40 on its way to me now (well, being sent to my work address in London, so won't be able to pick it up for a couple of weeks yet), and I believe that has a drawing of a 30cwt crane.

Thanks, Nick

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:13 pm

A bit more progress:

goods8.jpg
Roof of the office.
goods8.jpg (45.57 KiB) Viewed 11424 times


goods6.jpg
Interior of the office. The holes are for the LED straws. Obviously still needs a lot of detail added, included the insides of the walls.
goods6.jpg (40.96 KiB) Viewed 11424 times


goods10.jpg
Waiting for door, window sills and the front steps & railings.
goods10.jpg (43.91 KiB) Viewed 11424 times


goods5.jpg
Shed and office from the non-rail side.
goods5.jpg (48.86 KiB) Viewed 11424 times


goods9.jpg
This is tonight's job! Roof parts cut out and awaiting slates.
goods9.jpg (38.2 KiB) Viewed 11424 times


I just ordered guttering, downpipes and chimney pots from Scalelink.

Cheers, Nick

kelham
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby kelham » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:21 am

I've seen a photo somewhere (but can't remember where) of a crane inside a GWR goods shed. It consisted of a vertical wooden column with bearings at the base and at the top (attached to a roof beam) so that it could pivot. Attached to this was a fixed gibbet arm from which the hook depended. I think 30cwt was a typical figure for the maximum rating of these cranes. I wish I could think where that photo was...

Richard

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Russ Elliott
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Russ Elliott » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:24 pm

Nick, apropos our discussion about using the upperparts of the Cambrian crane kit for the Lampeter yard crane, have a look at the rear cover of the Scaleforum 2009 guide (in the members' Snooze index) for a pic of what John Hayes built for Wallingford.

martin goodall
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby martin goodall » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:15 pm

Russ Elliott wrote:Nick, apropos our discussion about using the upperparts of the Cambrian crane kit for the Lampeter yard crane, have a look at the rear cover of the Scaleforum 2009 guide (in the members' Snooze index) for a pic of what John Hayes built for Wallingford.


The beast in question is a 6-ton yard crane - not the sort of thing you would see inside a goods shed, I think.

It's a lovely model, and I have corresponded with John Hayes about it, as I want to build a model of the same prototype for the Burford Branch. There was a drawing in GWR Journal, and several photos in various Russell books. I propose to use part of a Cambrian Models travelling crane for the machinery, but I think the jib is going to have to be scratch-built.

For the 30-cwt crane inside the Goods Shed, there are both a whitemetal and a plastic kit available (both apparently of the same prototype), the latter from either Ratio or Wills. I can't rememebr off-hand who does the whitemetal version, although that's the one I've got - unbuilt as yet, as I haven't yet got round to completing the Goods Shed model.

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:41 am

Hi guys,

Yes inside the goods shed was a 30cwt crane, and I have a really nice ABS white metal crane kit for this which I'm halfway through building. Outside the shed, in another part of the yard was a 6 ton crane. This is what we were struggling with, as we only have a very blurry half-obscured photo that shows it, and we were discussing using the crane from the Cambrian kit as it looks very similar, particularly the profile of the jib.

I'll post some photos in the next few days, I've done a lot of the stonework, and finished the platform, and as I said I'm halfway through building the crane.

Thanks, Nick

martin goodall
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby martin goodall » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:28 pm

In case anyone is interested, the drawing of the 6-ton yard crane was in GWRJ No.36, page 229 (side elevation only). There is a photo of one of these cranes at Theale in Russell GW Wagons Appendix – Figure 305 (page 176). Another photo of the same crane appears in MRJ No.187 at page 300. This is a standard GWR design of the 1890s. As mentioned before, the Cambrian plastic kit for the rail-mounted 6-ton crane can be adapted for the winding gear, but the jib may have to be scratch-built from brass/nickel silver. There are also published photos in various books of similar cranes at Fairford and at Wallingford.

If Nick, or anyone else, would like to add any hints or comments on making a model of this particular type of crane, I would certainly welcome any such help.

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:35 pm

martin goodall wrote:There is a photo of one of these cranes at Theale in Russell GW Wagons Appendix – Figure 305 (page 176).


Excellent, thank you, I have the book but never spotted that picture before!

I've been trying to find GWR Journal 0 as it apparently has a drawing of a 6-ton yard crane (http://www.gwrjournal.com/issue.php?s=0).

martin goodall wrote:If Nick, or anyone else, would like to add any hints or comments on making a model of this particular type of crane, I would certainly welcome any such help.


At the moment it's not gone beyond discussion stage, we know that there was a 6 ton crane at Lampeter, we've discussed at length the reasons for why it might have been there, and we've looked at Russ's Cambrian travelling crane with a view to adapting it, but that's as far as we've got. I'd be happy to build this as some sort of joint effort and produce some etched parts if required. Looking at the Russell photo I think the jib could be etched. If someone has some drawings I can produce some artwork.

Thanks, Nick

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Dave K
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Dave K » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:18 am

JackBlack wrote:I've been trying to find GWR Journal 0 as it apparently has a drawing of a 6-ton yard crane (http://www.gwrjournal.com/issue.php?s=0).


I have a copy of GWRJ 0 (or the 'Bumper Preview Issue' as Wild Swan called it) and would you like me to scan the drawing and photo of the 6T crane - if so contact me off web.

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:41 am

Hi Dave,

Thats very kind of you, thanks. I've sent you a private message.

I was just looking at the Russell photo again, maybe it would be possible to produce a conversion etch for the Cambrian travelling crane that includes the jib and the platform and whatever other parts are missing.

I also spotted on page 178, figure 308 (Russell Wagon Appendix again) is the travelling version of the 30cwt crane kit that I'm building to go inside the goods shed.

Cheers, Nick

martin goodall
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby martin goodall » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:00 am

JackBlack wrote:I'd be happy to build this as some sort of joint effort and produce some etched parts if required. Looking at the Russell photo I think the jib could be etched. If someone has some drawings I can produce some artwork.


I would be interested in a possible joint venture to etch the jib and some other parts, as an alternative to my proposed scratch-build. Other members of the GWSG (and GWR modellers generally) might well be interested in a short production run of etches.

The feature in GWRJ No.0 relates to the later 'lattice jib' cranes introduced in the late 1920s. The type of crane I am interested in is the earlier design dating from the 1890s, as modelleed by John Hayes for his Wallingford layout (shown in the 2009 Scaleforum guide), and as illustrated in the photos I mentioned earlier, plus the drawing of the side elevation in GWJ No.36. I suppose if we asked nicely, Paul Karau might be able to produce copies of the other elevations of this crane.

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Sat May 08, 2010 7:04 pm

Here's a couple of (poor) pictures of my 30cwt crane for the goods shed. This is an ABS kit, it's taken me about a month to build although I've been somewhat distracted by other events! It's maybe slightly chunky, and the chain is going to be difficult to get exactly straight, but having said that it'll be barely visible once it's actually in the shed and the roof is on...

crane01.jpg
Kit is whitemetal and a small brass etch.
crane01.jpg (46.48 KiB) Viewed 11157 times


crane02.jpg
Undercoated and ready for the airbrush...
crane02.jpg (48.23 KiB) Viewed 11157 times


crane03.jpg
crane03.jpg (48.15 KiB) Viewed 11157 times


In the Russell Wagons Appendix book there's a photo of this type of crane mounted on a wagon, which would be great to model.

I'm off to London tomorrow for the week (ash cloud permitting) but on my return I'll be going back to cutting and sticking stones onto the shed. The end is somewhat in sight...

Cheers, Nick


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