What's inside a goods shed?

Inside the fence.
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JackBlack
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What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:57 pm

Hi folks,

I've started to build a model of the goods shed at Lampeter, since it's something I can do sitting at the coffee table in the lounge of an evening.

I have loads of exterior photos and a drawing from Railway Modeller (thanks to Barry from Cambrian), however aside from the tantalising photo I've posted below, I don't have any interior shots. And I've never been inside a goods shed so I've no idea what sort of things would be in there. From the photo it looks completely empty, but then this was taken when the goods yard had been shut down a while.

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I can see that there's a platform, and there's sliding doors at both rail entrances, so the platform needs to allow for those. Would there have been anything else? A crane perhaps? Although Lampeter had a 5 ton crane outside already. There was a small office attached to the shed , so presumably office type stuff would have been there.

Cheers, Nick

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Flymo748
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:19 pm

JackBlack wrote:
I can see that there's a platform, and there's sliding doors at both rail entrances, so the platform needs to allow for those. Would there have been anything else? A crane perhaps? Although Lampeter had a 5 ton crane outside already. There was a small office attached to the shed , so presumably office type stuff would have been there.


Hi Nick,

I've got a halfway useless answer ;-)

Memory says that there is a chapter in the JH Russell book "Great Western Architecture" on goods sheds and warehouses. I recollect that it also has some internal photographs and plans.

Unfortunately I'm away on business and my railway library is a few thousand miles distant from me at the moment... I can have a look at the weekend for you, or maybe someone else has the same book more conveniently to hand and can find the answer in the meantime.

HT(somewhat)H,
Flymo
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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:08 pm

Hi Paul,

I always forget about that book! I have it here, there's a couple of pictures of the inside of Newbury shed, but it's doesn't really have anything in it apart from a row of fire buckets on the wall and a hand crane. Maybe that's all that would be there?

Cheers, Nick

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Flymo748
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:25 pm

JackBlack wrote:Hi Paul,

I always forget about that book! I have it here, there's a couple of pictures of the inside of Newbury shed, but it's doesn't really have anything in it apart from a row of fire buckets on the wall and a hand crane. Maybe that's all that would be there?



I suspect that you're right :-)

Think of the modern analogy: one of those massive retail distribution centres by motorway junctions. The office for the paperwork is off to one side, out of the draughts, all of the goods being actually stored are locked away, and what they really need in the loading dock is a large clear area for transhipping easily and quickly goods in and out of wagons.

A bit of Elf & Safety equipment (extinguishers rather than buckets these days), maybe a clock and a telephone, and a shelf to put any paperwork, and that's it...

Plus, of course, any goods "caught in the act". I think that the other Russell books "GW miscellany 1&2" have a couple of photos of the insides of goods/transhipments sheds as well, which would show you how/what goods were handled.

Flymo
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johnWM
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby johnWM » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:36 pm

GW railway journal No 39 summer 2001. page 381 has one of the best photos of the interior of a goods shed I have seen. It is inside Paignton shed, and shows crane, trolley, sack trucks, barrel, parcels and alsorts of stuff. It also shows the internal timber platform and you can see the top half of the internal door to the office. Really evocative. The view is dated sept 1922. The photo is credited to the National Railway Museum so may have appeared elsewhere.

John

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grovenor-2685
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:59 pm

I doubt the GW was significantly different from other companies. The various Essery publications have a fair bit of info with pictures inside a number of sheds, granted mostly of larger establishments. But essentially most goods sheds would have a small hand crane, a selection of trollies and sack trucks, almost certainly a small weighing machine suitable for sacks and cartons etc. Maybe with a scale platform 3 or 4 feet square. The rest would be consignments in transit.
Examples in Midland record numbers 4 and 7.
Also reference to the MRJ index on this website http://www.scalefour.org/p4links.htm#Magazines will tell you that MRJ has twice featured GW Goods Sheds, in issue 0 with Ross on Wye, which includes drawings and photos of the inside cranes. And in issue 21 with Culham as modelled for Pendon but lacking any prototype pics.
Keith

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:19 am

That's great, thank you. I'll try and hunt down GWR journal #39 and MRJ 21, MRJ 0 is a bit trickier!

I have GWR Miscellany Vol II and there's a photo of the inside of Birmingham Moor Street shed, mainly because it has a wagon traverser. But you can see it's basically full of "goods", ie stacks of crates and stuff. Weighing machine, trollies and various crates/goods etc I can get from Dart Castings etc. Is it safe to assume there was a hand crane?

I'll post some pictures of where I've got to later on. Cheers, Nick

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Re6/6
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Re6/6 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:23 am

...not forgetting bits of straw all over the floor. That appeared to be the packing material in the 'pre-plastic' era.
John

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Jim Summers
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Jim Summers » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:26 am

Jack,

Have a look at Scalefour News 141 February 2005 "Goods Sheds North and South", where there is a picture of what Mike Gilgannon did, showing the crane. (Previous issues are accessible on the website, if you don't have that one to hand).

Beyond that, you'll want sack barrows and all manner of clutter. Probably a clerk with a delivery note, trying to make sense of it all.

Jim

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:07 pm

I've now got S4 News #141 thanks to the download archive (not seen that before, the download section is excellent!), so thanks for that.

I have a small GW platform crane kit by ABS which I can use (I bought it originally intending it to be the yard crane outside, but it's too small). I have the basic shed shell put together, I'll take some photos later and post them up. In the mean time here's some pictures of the shed that my granddad took back in the 80's:

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As you can see it's unfaced stone with welsh slate roof. The office is rendered. The canopy on the non-rail side was added in the 60s/70s I believe so I won't be modelling that. For the stone on the walls, I considered scribing DAS, but I've not done it before and I'm unconvinced I could spread it evenly enough, so I'm going to try cuting individual blocks from plasticard and see how that goes. I won't be modelling the caravan...

Cheers, Nick

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Tim V
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Tim V » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:04 pm

You need to find the list of facilities at the station to determine if there was a crane inside the shed.
Tim V

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:53 pm

Hi Nick,

the lads have all added useful information. I do have a copy of MRJ 0 and could send you scans of the pages if that would be of use. They include drawings inside and out including a two ton crane for inside. My friend Bob Logan built the goods shed for Pendon that appeared in one of the early MRJ's, I could put you in touch, if you wish, as he may have other information which may be of use to you.

I also built a model of the Bathgate Goods shed which was a reasonable size and took up to 16 wagons at a time below its roof. I took photographs of the shed including the interior the morning after someone set fire to it and burnt it down. A bit of a sad sight with its cranes fallen like some ancient beasts. I am not sure where the photos are at the moment, as it is years since I used them. I will probably find them when not looking for them.

The West of Scotland Group bought Mike Gilgannon's goods shed recently and I could take a couple of close up photos if any use to you. Please let me know.

Allan

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Penrhos1920
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Penrhos1920 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:16 pm

A few photos of Whittingham goods shed (near Alnwick) taken in May 2008 when I was dreaming about buying the station....

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General view showing the non railway entrance
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The north facing end with my 5' surveyors mark in front of one of the track doors.
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P5250167.JPG
The interior taken from the south end. you can see where the track used to be. The loading platform has been cut short, it used to stretch the whole length of the shed.
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P5250170.JPG
In the NW corner was an office
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P5250172.JPG
From the platform looking out through the south door
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Getting it Alright

Penrhos Junctions near Caerphilly - Barry Rly, Rhymney Rly and A(N&SW)D&R 1920 and pseudo modern image in S4F
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Dispelling the P4 drop in wheel myth
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Penrhos1920
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Penrhos1920 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:20 pm

More photos..

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The cartage doors. I'm not sure whether the platform used to go right up to the door, or if there was a small bay.
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P5250176.JPG
A close up of the rail doors, they slide between the platform and wall.
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P5250178.JPG
The south facing exterior
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P5250180.JPG
The cartage door exterior. Note that there used to be a canopy.
P5250180.JPG (69.31 KiB) Viewed 10902 times
Getting it Alright

Penrhos Junctions near Caerphilly - Barry Rly, Rhymney Rly and A(N&SW)D&R 1920 and pseudo modern image in S4F
and
Awrhyllgwami for DEMU challenge
and
Dispelling the P4 drop in wheel myth
and
TOERAG Obergruppenführer

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:27 pm

What lovely and useful photographs. One thing not mentioned was the heating, admittedly meagre, but there none-the less. Every shed had a fire, often tucked away in the corner with a desk and chair nearby. A large shed like Bathgate,would have several.

Allan

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:01 am

Tim V wrote:You need to find the list of facilities at the station to determine if there was a crane inside the shed.


Yes indeed, thanks. I've emailed Didcot to see if they have something. Who else might have this info, HMRS? Cheers, Nick

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:08 am

Allan Goodwillie wrote:I do have a copy of MRJ 0 and could send you scans of the pages if that would be of use. They include drawings inside and out including a two ton crane for inside. My friend Bob Logan built the goods shed for Pendon that appeared in one of the early MRJ's, I could put you in touch, if you wish, as he may have other information which may be of use to you.


Hi Alan, yes please, that would be really great. My email address is post[at]nickallport[dot]com.

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:14 am

Penrhos1920 wrote:A few photos of Whittingham goods shed (near Alnwick) taken in May 2008 when I was dreaming about buying the station....


Lovely photos! And good to have the human measuring stick! I was looking at the shell of mine last night and checking the measurements again because it looks huge in comparison to everything else, but your photos put it into perspective.

The shed is still standing at Lampeter, the only thing that's still remaining at the site. It's had a new roof and been converted into workshop/studio type units. I have some photos somewhere.

Cheers, Nick

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Penrhos1920
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Penrhos1920 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:27 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote:What lovely and useful photographs. One thing not mentioned was the heating, admittedly meagre, but there none-the less. Every shed had a fire, often tucked away in the corner.....
Allan


It's just visible in the fourth photo of the first set. Just one for the whole of the shed, well just the office really.
Getting it Alright

Penrhos Junctions near Caerphilly - Barry Rly, Rhymney Rly and A(N&SW)D&R 1920 and pseudo modern image in S4F
and
Awrhyllgwami for DEMU challenge
and
Dispelling the P4 drop in wheel myth
and
TOERAG Obergruppenführer

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:51 am

Hi guys,

As promised here's some photos of where I'm at with this so far. Not a huge amount to see as it's just the basic shell. The shed itself is 3mm foamboard sandwiched between 1mm plasticard sheet, and on top of this will be glued various thickness of "stone", cut from plasticard. The office wall are a lamination of 3 x 1mm plasticard. The windows are from a Bill Bedford fret. I'm just working on the chimney breast and fireplace in the office at the moment (the wires for the office lights will come out of the loft, down the chimney and through the bottom of the model).

Does anyone have a view on what the floor would have been like? Floorboards, tiles, maybe slate tiles? Lino? I'm modelling early 30's.

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goods1.jpg
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The first 10mm of the base will be buried into the layout baseboards, which makes it look taller that it actually is. I'm off to London for the week tomorrow (weather permitting), so no more progress for a while, apart from whatever I can get done today...

Cheers, Nick

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:16 am

Coming on very nicely Nick, :)

I am assuming you are referring to the office.
Up this neck of the woods the floors would tend to be wood, but in most cases covered in Lino. Kirkcaldy was the world capital of lino. Lino stopped any drafts coming through the floorboards. Ships lino was often used in signal boxes for the same reason, but was of a heavier quality. Lino was quite hard wearing and fairly easily cleaned - think about the surface areas in goods yards.

Foamboard sandwiched between plasticard layers is amazingly strong and light - permanent as well- I have some buildings made about 40 years ago, with no sign of deterioration.

Enjoy your modelling today, we are totally snowed in.

Allan

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:43 am

Thanks Allan, we moved to Lampeter in 72 into a big old house that pretty much hadn't been touched since the 30's, floor boards, outside toilets, no central heating, and lino everywhere, so I'm happy to go with lino on the office floor.

Tim V wrote:You need to find the list of facilities at the station to determine if there was a crane inside the shed.


I heard back from a very helpful gentleman from Didcot, the only crane listed is the 6 ton crane (not 5 as I previously thought) out in the yard. Nothing listed for the shed.

Thanks, Nick

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Tim V
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Tim V » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:12 pm

Not all sheds had a crane, just as well you checked!
Tim V

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JackBlack
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby JackBlack » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:18 am

I've heard back again from the same gentleman at Didcot, and after further research it appears that Lampeter had a 30cwt crane in the goods shed, as well as the 6 ton crane in the yard.

So I guess my next question is, what would a 30cwt Great Western crane have looked like? The one in the drawings that Alan sent is a 2 ton crane.

I've made a bit more progress on the shed, I'll post some more pictures in a couple of days.

Cheers, Nick

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Tim V
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Re: What's inside a goods shed?

Postby Tim V » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:18 pm

I believe the one in the car park at Erwood station is one of these, I'll dig out a photo.
Tim V


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