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Lampeter Station question

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:31 pm
by JackBlack
Hi folks,

I'm in the process of preparing drawings of Lampeter Station building, in anticipation of my Winter project. I'm puzzled by what appears to be the top of a window, very close to the ground on one side. I have attached the photos below with this circled in red. The top photo was taken in 1969, the other quite early, maybe around 1910. I'm wondering if at some point this was the entrance to something? Any thoughts would be appreciated...

LSTN.jpg


Thanks, Nick

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:41 pm
by kelly
Could it have been a storage basement? some buildings tended to have windows to let light into basements in the past?

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:55 pm
by DaveHarris
If you look carefully at the bottom picture, there seems to be a short fence/handrail coming from the wall of the building? Maybe, given the size of the visible lintel and the short fence/handrail this was indeed a 'cellar' of some sort :?:

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:03 pm
by Le Corbusier
JackBlack wrote:Hi folks,

I'm in the process of preparing drawings of Lampeter Station building, in anticipation of my Winter project. I'm puzzled by what appears to be the top of a window, very close to the ground on one side. I have attached the photos below with this circled in red. The top photo was taken in 1969, the other quite early, maybe around 1910. I'm wondering if at some point this was the entrance to something? Any thoughts would be appreciated...

LSTN.jpg

Thanks, Nick


I suspect that it might be something against the building rather than a window. This reading is based upon the fact that the positioning of the object is against the chimney breast wall and the foundation to the chimney I think would be slap bang in the middle of it. There is no evidence in the stonework that the chimney was built later.

Are there any other openings within the building with substantial lintels? That would give a clue as to whether it is in the wall or against.

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:10 am
by John Palmer
Some kind of handcart tipped so as to rest sideways on one of its wheels?
Handcart.jpg

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:23 am
by Le Corbusier
Lampeter+station+building+6.74-1.jpg
Lampeter+station+building+6.74-1.jpg (63.88 KiB) Viewed 3954 times


It is clearly visible in this later image suggesting not something temporary - whether in the line of the gable wall or in front - it suggests something related to the fabric. The slight camber to the top in the black and white image (if not an optical illusion) is suggestive of a relieving arch of sorts. But at the same time my eye is reading it as coming forward.

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:21 am
by JackBlack
Wow I've never seen that photo before!

To answer the questions, there are other brick lintels on the building that look similar to this, as can be seen the building is quite an ugly mixture or brick and stone, some parts rendered and others not. However that chimney is almost certainly original, it's in every photo and postcard going back as far as I can find. Is it possible the lintel is there to support the chimney breast? Or maybe it's a coal hole?

Thanks, Nick

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:40 am
by billbedford
Was this end of the station ever used as a signal box?

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:08 am
by JackBlack
Hi Bill,

To my knowledge no. As you can see in the photo below the original MMR signal box was at the end of the down platform. This was knocked down in 1916 and replaced by a GWR box at the top end of the up platform, almost opposite the station building, the platform was then extended on both sides.

The second picture shows the original station building. That chimney at some point was rebuilt when they extended the building.

20021201.JPG


200212013.JPG


Thanks, Nick

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:15 am
by Le Corbusier
JackBlack wrote:Wow I've never seen that photo before!

To answer the questions, there are other brick lintels on the building that look similar to this, as can be seen the building is quite an ugly mixture or brick and stone, some parts rendered and others not. However that chimney is almost certainly original, it's in every photo and postcard going back as far as I can find. Is it possible the lintel is there to support the chimney breast? Or maybe it's a coal hole?

Thanks, Nick


It is certainly curious. I have never seen an opening formed directly under a chimney like that as you would have to support the widening foundation base of the chimney stack itself which would be ±2' 6" thick and more at this point. I have seen relieving arches to spread load where ground conditions are iffy and also openings to access the back of the fire (ash box and venting) ... but the lintel (if that is what it is) is pretty significant.

Do you know the internal layout? It would be interesting to know if the position of the fire place was offset.

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:33 am
by Le Corbusier
$_57.jpg


This image would certainly suggest to me that it is something built against the gable ... as from the picture it appears to be proud of the plane of the wall. What is certain is that it is something pretty substantial.

Also found this...

B0VVdBrIAAE6-UU-1.jpg

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:59 am
by JackBlack
Is it possible it was a buffer? There is a siding the stops before there, it's actually the goods shed siding, however it's possible that in very early days that siding extended all the way to the end of the station building?

That photo you've posted is 1904 (according to the Oakwood Press book) when the line was still Manchester & Milford, before the station building had the final extension to the other end, the original signal box is still there.

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:28 am
by Noel
JackBlack wrote:Is it possible it was a buffer?


The photographs strongly suggest that the levels are wrong for this; whatever it is, it is barely above ground level.

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:42 am
by dal-t
Could it be a remnant of the round wooden object shown in the autotrain photo (wagon t/t top, maybe?)? Did the track layout change at some point rendering one or more t/ts obsolete (would actually be unusual if it didn't ...)? BTW, to me the lateral alignment of the siding looks wrong for a bufferstop, even if levels had changed - but I haven't seen any period plans.

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:01 am
by Le Corbusier
20021201-1.jpg


From this enlargement it would appear to be the height of the gate, and again on the face of it seems to be projecting forwards ... I vaguely wondered if it might be a stand of sorts? the height is about right for a horse drawn waggon?

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:31 am
by philip-griffiths
Horse trough?

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:18 pm
by Martin Wynne
Someone with keener eyes than me may spot something, starting about 10 minutes 45 seconds in:

https://vimeo.com/103641050

Martin.

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:56 am
by JackBlack
Some lovely footage of Green Grove and Pont Llanio there. Two visits to Lampeter as well!

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:00 am
by JackBlack
Le Corbusier wrote:Do you know the internal layout? It would be interesting to know if the position of the fire place was offset.


Sadly no. It took me years to even find a photo of the front of the station building.

Whatever it is, it does look to proud of the wall. I'm going to not include it in my model for now, and if something turns up where it's possible to see what that is then I can do something about it. It's really frustrating though!

Re: Lampeter Station question

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:44 am
by Le Corbusier
JackBlack wrote:
Le Corbusier wrote:Do you know the internal layout? It would be interesting to know if the position of the fire place was offset.


Sadly no. It took me years to even find a photo of the front of the station building.

Whatever it is, it does look to proud of the wall. I'm going to not include it in my model for now, and if something turns up where it's possible to see what that is then I can do something about it. It's really frustrating though!

I have to say the horse trough suggestion is an attractive one to me. Easily removable with future knowledge, and I suspect about the right length and height for the pictures ... it could even be correct given the proximity of the goods yard?