Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

User avatar
barrowroad
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:28 pm

Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby barrowroad » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:39 pm

I am in the process of converting 11 Bachmann Mk1 coaches for ' The Devonian'. I have completed the first five which are the set destined for Paignton and have just started on the next Brake Third for the six coaches that make up the Plymouth set the train being split at Newton Abbott.

The attached video shows the five on a test run past Barrow Road shed.

The model coaches are dismantled removing the roof to thin the ribs using a scalpel followed by a spray with humbrol roof dirt.
Bogies and corridor connectors are removed and replaced with Bill Bedford sprung csb bogies with MJT cosmetic frames and Masokits corridor connectors. AJ coupling is standard for each end of a fixed rake with kadee units between coaches.



RAO
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:49 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby RAO » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:30 pm

Thanks for sharing this information.
I have a rake of Mk1 coaches, 7 of the work perfectly by just changing the wheels to P4 Gibson's, but 1 is a rogue and keeps derailing to I've purchase a set of Rumney coach Bogie Subframes and hope that this will solve the problem. For couplings I use the replacement imitation Backmann pipe connectors and between the corridor connectors I've inserted black foam to the shape of the corridor connections.
All a bit of a quick conversion, but as its on an express non stopping train it is difficult to see the lack of alteration.
On the rear coach there is a rear light and a Masokits corridor connector.

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1973
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby Noel » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:41 pm

barrowroad wrote:I have completed the first five which are the set destined for Paignton and have just started on the next Brake Third for the six coaches that make up the Plymouth set the train being split at Newton Abbott.


Leaving aside trains not from the north-east, I know that the Cornishman split, but I don't remember the Devonian doing so; I thought that the full set worked to Paignton. However, it was along time ago and it may have been different before I knew Newton Abbot in the early 1960s... I do remember roof boards on the carriages; named trains normally carried them then. Presumably they are on the list for later?
Regards
Noel

Dave Holt
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby Dave Holt » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:06 pm

Very nice and smooth, Robin. With the full eleven on, I imagine at least a Jubilee would be in order?
Dave.

triumph3
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:52 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby triumph3 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:21 am

Robin, looking good, nice to see a 4F getting a job on a passenger train! Presumably Mk1s were for the prestige trains with the ex LMS and LNER stock for the other trains.

I see the loco shed yard is now looking well populated with locos,just need some rebuilt Scots to complete!

David

User avatar
Penrhos1920
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby Penrhos1920 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:06 pm

Which Kadee are you using and what’s the tightest radius they go round?
Thanks
R

User avatar
barrowroad
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:28 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby barrowroad » Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:53 pm

Noel, The coach formation and destination information from 1955 are from 'Operation Midland' by Xpress Publishing. The train stops at Newton Abbott and as I stated 5 Mk1's go to Paignton and the other 6 followed the " 15.30 Paddington to Penzance as a stopping train to Plymouth".

Dave/David, thanks for the kind comments. I have a rebuilt Sot to convert.

The kadee couplers are #714 which I believe are N gauge. The minimum radius on my layout is 1200mm.

Robin

User avatar
45609
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:28 am

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby 45609 » Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:20 pm

Kadee #714s are HOn3 couplings. #711s are also suitable and these are listed as 3/4 size HO. I think the difference is the vertical height of the iron uncoupling dropper. Both of these Kadees are very close to actual size for British prototype buckeye couplings. The data on Keith Norgrove’s webpage gives you the details

http://www.norgrove.me.uk/buckeye.htm


Morgan

davebradwell
Posts: 1173
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby davebradwell » Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:10 pm

I bought some Kadees years ago but found that both the normal and "scale" types just had too much endplay in them - a fixing that ensured the couplings were taking the propelling forces, rather than pushing on the gangways, allowed the gangways to open up when pulling. Presumably the N and narrow gauge Kadees are a bit tighter but I ended up with Sergent couplers which still have some clearance but it's just acceptable. Pig to uncouple though, especially as I have the non-working ones which can be just hooked over each other.

Have you tried the "Wakefield" gangways from MRJ200? These involve cutting a hole in the coach end that the existing moulded gangway pokes through with a sprung plate behind - really only appropriate for Bachmann mk1s but a simple and tidy solution that works well without being fiddly.

DaveB

wakefield
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby wakefield » Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:59 pm

A follow up on Dave’s post. It is also possible to use the method for Bachman Thompson’s.
I thoroughly recommend Chris’s article. He has taken the idea and made a much more workmanlike job of it ( as usual ).
Mike.

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1973
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby Noel » Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:55 pm

barrowroad wrote:Noel, The coach formation and destination information from 1955 are from 'Operation Midland' by Xpress Publishing. The train stops at Newton Abbott and as I stated 5 Mk1's go to Paignton and the other 6 followed the " 15.30 Paddington to Penzance as a stopping train to Plymouth".


Out of curiosity, I have been looking at this again, Robin, having very recently seen a photo of the Devonian from the summer of 1959 northbound at Dr. Days Bridge Junction, next stop Stapleton Road, the same route it used northbound in 1955 [I have no knowledge about the southbound route, but there was no Stapleton Road stop]. According to the public timetable for 19/9/55 to 10/6/56, the southbound Devonian arrives at Newton Abbot at 18:52 and the Plymouth all stations leaves at 19:30, which is rather a long wait, assuming an on time arrival. There is also the issue of having to find a scratch set for the local if the Devonian is more than an hour or so late [all too possible for a train which left Bradford at 09:25].

There is nothing to show that the 19:30 relates to the Devonian, which is shown as "RC and TC Bradford (Forster Square) to Torquay and Paignton", and vice-versa, although other trains which split are shown as TC to/from both destinations. This also shows that the catering vehicle [or possibly more than one?] goes to Torbay, apparently with a maximum of four ordinary coaches, leaving six ordinary coaches to eventually go to Plymouth as the last of six all stations trains per day, which seems an interesting split; there is an earlier non-stop connection to Plymouth from Exeter on the 15:30. None of this is conclusive, the summer timetable may differ, and the black art of diagramming could produce some very odd results, but I am still left unconvinced of the accuracy of your source on this, I'm afraid.
Regards
Noel

Mark Tatlow
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby Mark Tatlow » Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:30 pm

Robin,

With regard to your one errant coach, is it possibly one with commonwealth bogies? If so, the damper is prone to touching the solebars and calls for a little plastic surgery.......

The other possibility is that you have over tightened the underframe to the coach body such that it has imparted a slight upwards bow to it. Make sure that these are loose and if that solves it use a bit of nut-tight as you assemble it for the last time.

I assume that you are introducing a piece of wire or microrod upon which the bogie can rock on its buffing plate? If not, these are recommended and seem to set unreplaced plastic Bachmann bogies on the mk1s to the right height to boot!



Mark
Mark Tatlow

bécasse
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby bécasse » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:20 pm

One thing that one can be certain of is that if six* carriages were split off at NA to work that final stopping service thence to Plymouth, there would have been a return working from Plymouth to at least get them back to the LMR (Birmingham, Derby, Sheffield or Leeds if not Bradford itself).

Regular inter-regional diagrams tended to be fairly simple, NB one-day, SB the next, Monday to Saturday, with the home Regions each supplying a set for the originating Monday services, but there were a few exceptions with more complex cyclic diagrams. One can be certain, though, that "foreign" vehicles were always diagrammed to return to their home region eventually and that that process (except perhaps at the beginning and/or end of a timetable period) normally avoided the requirement for empty stock working.

One further comment, I have seen several references to "roof boards" but Mk I stock carried such route boards below the cantrail, not on the roof, and I suspect that that may have applied to some late LMS stock too.

User avatar
barrowroad
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:28 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby barrowroad » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:55 pm

Mark, I assume you are referring to post by RAO rather than myself.
Noel, My 1958/59 timetable has the southbound Devonian routed via Mangotsfield and hence past Barrow Road shed, The northbound was routed via Filton bank rejoining the Midland line at Yate, however the 1961 timetable routes the Devonian via Mangotsfield in both directions.
Noel, 'Operation Midland' which details train workings for 1955 shows two sets, one working Mon, Weds and Fri whilst the other Tues and Thurs. I believe one set had chocolate and cream Mk1s. The 9.25 Bradford to Paignton is made up of set 33 BTK;TK;TK;CK;BTK arriving at Paignton at 19.25. This set forming the following days 9.15 from Paignton. The other part of the train is set 35 made up of BTK; TO; RC; CK; TK; BTK which splits at Newton Abbot to form the 19.30 working to Plymouth. The return is the 8.45am from Plymouth joining the 9.15 set from Paignton at Newton Abbot to reform the Devonian to Bristol and Bradford.

I'm happy to stick with this formation for my layout.

Robin

bécasse
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby bécasse » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:44 am

barrowroad wrote:Mark, I assume you are referring to post by RAO rather than myself.
Noel, My 1958/59 timetable has the southbound Devonian routed via Mangotsfield and hence past Barrow Road shed, The northbound was routed via Filton bank rejoining the Midland line at Yate, however the 1961 timetable routes the Devonian via Mangotsfield in both directions.
Noel, 'Operation Midland' which details train workings for 1955 shows two sets, one working Mon, Weds and Fri whilst the other Tues and Thurs. I believe one set had chocolate and cream Mk1s. The 9.25 Bradford to Paignton is made up of set 33 BTK;TK;TK;CK;BTK arriving at Paignton at 19.25. This set forming the following days 9.15 from Paignton. The other part of the train is set 35 made up of BTK; TO; RC; CK; TK; BTK which splits at Newton Abbot to form the 19.30 working to Plymouth. The return is the 8.45am from Plymouth joining the 9.15 set from Paignton at Newton Abbot to reform the Devonian to Bristol and Bradford.

I'm happy to stick with this formation for my layout.

Robin


That sounds totally logical although all the MkIs would have been in crimson and cream in 1955, the colours didn't start to change (to maroon, some WR chocolate & cream and SR green) until late 1956. There was almost certainly some form of complimentary Saturday working to get the sets "home" for the weekend.

It is perhaps worth remembering that in the 1950s quite a lot of traffic to/from Plymouth would have been matelots, some travelling on warrants, some on HMF tickets. National Service was to continue for several more years after 1955.

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Forum Team
Posts: 3917
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:23 am

Just for a little variation I have a 1964 timetable and the Devonian timings seem to have changed.
It is booked out of Bradford at 10:35 am, Newton Abbot 6:25pm, reaching Paignton at 6:53pm and Plymouth at 7:23pm. It specifies RC, MB and TC Bradford to Paignton.
The return is 9:15am from Plymouth (6:50 from Penzance), 9:45am from Paignton, 10:18 from Newton Abbot, arriving Bradford 6:02pm. Again RC, MB, TC Paignton to Bradford.
No mention of TC for Plymouth in either direction.
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1973
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby Noel » Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:29 am

bécasse wrote: There was almost certainly some form of complimentary Saturday working to get the sets "home" for the weekend.


1950s [and at least the early 1960s] timetables included Saturdays as weekdays, only Sundays had reduced services. There were some SX trains, but the Devonian ran Monday to Saturday.
Regards
Noel

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1973
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby Noel » Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:16 pm

barrowroad wrote:The 9.25 Bradford to Paignton is made up of set 33 BTK;TK;TK;CK;BTK arriving at Paignton at 19.25. This set forming the following days 9.15 from Paignton. The other part of the train is set 35 made up of BTK; TO; RC; CK; TK; BTK which splits at Newton Abbot to form the 19.30 working to Plymouth. The return is the 8.45am from Plymouth joining the 9.15 set from Paignton at Newton Abbot to reform the Devonian to Bristol and Bradford.


Robin, the public timetables for winter 1955 and winter 1959 that I have, and the 1964 timetable Keith quotes from are consistent in showing a catering service available to the public the whole way to Paignton and return. The working you quote has the catering vehicles [the TO is almost certainly one as well as the RC] running 'dead' from Newton Abbot to Plymouth [and presumably back again]; they would not be in service on an all stations train, nor do the timetables show any such service. There is a fundamental incompatibility here, plus a number of other questions as well, such as the presence of an RC when no Mark 1s were built as such; the only WR catering Mark 1s in 1955 were five RKF + RTO pairs if I read "Mark 1 Coaches" correctly.

Anyway, as you imply, Rule 1 applies, so I'll shut up now. I hope I get the chance some day to see the layout in operation.
Regards
Noel

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Forum Team
Posts: 3917
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:44 pm

Noel wrote:1950s [and at least the early 1960s] timetables included Saturdays as weekdays, only Sundays had reduced services. There were some SX trains, but the Devonian ran Monday to Saturday.

In my 1964 timetable there are three sections, Mon-Fri, Saturday only and Sunday.
The Devonian only appears in the Mon-Fri.
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

John Palmer
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby John Palmer » Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:03 pm

My 1961 Bristol District WTB is schizophrenic about Saturday Only trains. The principal division covering Steventon, Kemble and Highbridge lumps weekday and Saturday trains into a single section, whilst the Charfield-Bristol division (via both Mangotsfield and Filton) separates weekday and Saturday trains into different sections. The Devonian is clearly shown as both a weekday and Saturday train, so it would appear that at some date between 1961 and 1964 the service may have been curtailed.

The Cornishman's workings, on the other hand, were a bit more complex: it was routed via Mangotsfield on weekdays for a call at Temple Meads (and thus past Barrow Road). On Saturdays a train bearing the same 4-character designator (1C33) and having the same Penzance destination ran in a substantially similar path. However, the Saturday train was routed via Filton, Dr Day and North Somerset Jc in order to reach St Philips Marsh for a locomotive change, with no platform call at Bristol. South of Bristol this train ran on slightly easier timings than those of the weekday Cornishman. This Cornishman example leads me to wonder whether by 1964 there was still a Saturday train running in much the same path as the Devonian but without the title.

User avatar
barrowroad
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:28 pm

Re: Converted Bachmann Mk1 coaches for 'The Devonian'

Postby barrowroad » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:02 pm

Noel Just to clarify the RC in the set 35 is shown as an LMS vehicle not a Mk1.

Robin


Return to “barrowroad”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 0 guests