Cheddar

User avatar
Re6/6
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:53 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Re6/6 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:36 pm

Andrew Ullyott wrote:Who says p4 doesn't work...
.


Butting in here Andrew......! :D.
On our DRAG test track...... Some rigid, some compensated and some sprung.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_I3XoIeVUM
John

Andrew Ullyott
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:09 pm

For those who don't follow my blog on RM Web, the layout has now reached the mind numbingly dull rail/chair painting and ballasting stage (with proper Dulcote Quarry stone no less). I've just taken delivery of a load of Modelu point rodding stools so I can start to add the bases for these as I go.
I've also finished the latest loco for the eventual fleet, 5311 which was a Bath Road/Westbury engine and ran through from Trowbridge each morning to Bristol. The return working was not via the branch so I'll have to make that bit up when I get to the exhibition stage
Attachments
IMG_0985.jpg
IMG_0983.jpg
IMG_0992.jpg
IMG_1025.jpg

Andrew Ullyott
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:42 pm

Again, for those who don't frequent my blogs on RMWeb, the end of 2018 has seen scenic progress complete to 5 of the 8 boards. I say complete, but in reality there's a fair bit of tidying up, blending colours and detailing still to finish off. I can only work on two adjacent scenic boards at a time, so there'll be a bit of work to do once everything is done.
The buildings are only mock ups at this stage. You can see the outline of the overall train shed, which is fairly large and I suspect will keep me occupied for a fair bit of this year.
Best wishes for 2019 all.
Andrew
Attachments
IMG_1936.jpg
Looking towards Axbridge end (half layout)
IMG_1937.jpg
Looking towards Axbridge end (half layout)
IMG_1931.jpg
Station and goods shed

nberrington
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:15 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby nberrington » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:01 pm

This is magnificent. I must have received some inspiration from this before, as I seem to be using the same baseboard methodology! That when I thought I was being original......

Andrew Ullyott
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Sat May 04, 2019 8:48 pm

Well it's been a while since I put anything on here, though the eagle eyed may have noticed an article in the latest Snooze, which shows a Triang bogie brake on the semi-completed parts of the layout.
I'm making the goods shed at present using laser cut parts from York Modelmaking, having drawn these up on Coreldraw.
I've been assembling the main walls of the goods shed with their overlaid embossed ABS which I've got from 'Green Stuff World', a Spanish outfit but with an easy to navigate website. These have been pre-painted but will need finishing with filler around windows and the main wall joins. I'm also going to fill the mortar courses with filler powder and set off with a dark wash.
I'm pleased with how things are going. I've incorporated an unprototypical ring beam at eaves level around the shed top to add a bit of rigidity.
The theory of doing the goods shed first was to iron out any problems with using laser cut parts before I moved on to the station. I've no complaints with what I've got, though my design of having the window frames on a separate layer behind the main structural wall will result in the frames sitting too deep I think. I'm going to cut out the frames and try and inset these into the openings for the goods shed office at least and I'll see how I feel about the main part of the building. I'll correct this design on the station building, which I have drawn up but won't take too long to correct.
Pictures attached of where I've got to. The goods office is presently being glued to the main walls and I'm using some rather nifty right angles magnetic clamps I got from York Modelmaking when I picked up the main goods shed components from them at the York show. The inner walls have yet to be added, the faces of which are the same embossed ABS.
Attachments
IMG_2717.jpg
IMG_2715.jpg
IMG_2716.jpg
IMG_2718.jpg

User avatar
Tim V
Posts: 2236
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Tim V » Sun May 05, 2019 11:39 am

I can't remember if I've sent you these pictures of Wells goods shed.
Wells 13 March 1975 Zenit 48- (2).jpg

Wells 13 March 1975 Zenit 48- (1).jpg
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

Andrew Ullyott
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Sun May 05, 2019 5:55 pm

Nope, but thanks for now posting. Invaluable detail for the loading dock.

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby steve howe » Sun May 05, 2019 8:03 pm

Andrew Ullyott wrote:I've also finished the latest loco for the eventual fleet, 5311 which was a Bath Road/Westbury engine and ran through from Trowbridge each morning to Bristol. The return working was not via the branch so I'll have to make that bit up when I get to the exhibition stage


Hi Andrew,

Can I ask what the origins of 5311 are? particularly its underpinnings, I have two to do (ex-Mainline) for Watermouth and I am interested in the conversion options.

Steve

Andrew Ullyott
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Mon May 06, 2019 8:48 am

steve howe wrote:
Andrew Ullyott wrote:I've also finished the latest loco for the eventual fleet, 5311 which was a Bath Road/Westbury engine and ran through from Trowbridge each morning to Bristol. The return working was not via the branch so I'll have to make that bit up when I get to the exhibition stage


Hi Andrew,

Can I ask what the origins of 5311 are? particularly its underpinnings, I have two to do (ex-Mainline) for Watermouth and I am interested in the conversion options.

Steve

Hi Steve
It's a Mitchell kit, sprung with CSB's so I'm not sure that's much help. I'm not sure who's holding the kits at the moment. David Geen would occasionally let you have chassis kits but he's retired now.
Iain Rice did a conversion using a perseverance chassis in one of his Wild Swan book I think. I'm not aware of any other options.
Andrew

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1114
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Noel » Mon May 06, 2019 11:11 am

steve howe wrote:I have two to do (ex-Mainline) for Watermouth and I am interested in the conversion options.


Are you aware that the Mainline 53XX firebox dimensions are somewhat compromised to fit the motor? It is most noticeable where it meets the cab, as it is relatively both higher and wider than it should be.
Regards
Noel

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby steve howe » Mon May 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Noel wrote:Are you aware that the Mainline 53XX firebox dimensions are somewhat compromised to fit the motor? It is most noticeable where it meets the cab, as it is relatively both higher and wider than it should be.


Bu**er! I wasn't aware of that. Although I did think 5311 had a rather more refined look about it than my specimens! I'll have to have a critical inspection and decide what to do.

Thanks for the info Andrew and heads-up Noel.

Steve

Andrew Ullyott
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:26 pm

We're getting there slowly. Impressed with the bargeboards from York Modelmaking, although the eagle eyed will spot the bridging pieces where I mis-measured. Oops.
Thanks to John Palmer for the source of most excellent double roman ABS tiled sheets. Off Alibaba express in case anyone's interested.
The shed crane isn't strictly correct, but don't tell anyone please!
IMG_2907.jpg
IMG_2905.jpg
IMG_2903.jpg
IMG_2904.jpg

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby steve howe » Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:46 pm

steve howe wrote:
Noel wrote:Are you aware that the Mainline 53XX firebox dimensions are somewhat compromised to fit the motor? It is most noticeable where it meets the cab, as it is relatively both higher and wider than it should be.


Bu**er! I wasn't aware of that. Although I did think 5311 had a rather more refined look about it than my specimens! I'll have to have a critical inspection and decide what to do.

Thanks for the info Andrew and heads-up Noel.

Steve


I've dug out my Moguls and found they are in fact Bachmann...do the same inaccuracies apply?

Steve

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1114
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Noel » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:47 pm

My understanding is that the Bachmann version is compromised in the same ways as the Mainline one, but I don't have one to check.
Regards
Noel

John Palmer
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby John Palmer » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:44 pm

Excellent; glad to see the double roman roofing has turned out so well! No modeller of Somerset buildings should be without them...

On a roof of that length I expect you needed to splice together at least two sheets, but I can't detect any trace of it - a lovely neat job.

My own practice is to chamfer the bottom edge of these sheets so that the apparent depth of the 'flat' part of the tiles' cross section is only a few thou thick. I then cut an angled slot into the underside of each 'half-round' part of the tiles with a junior hacksaw, before using the cuts so formed as a guide for a round needle file. I've illustrated the end result at https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5743&p=59072#p59072

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Paul Townsend » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:56 pm

Andrew Ullyott wrote:Thanks to John Palmer for the source of most excellent double roman ABS tiled sheets. Off Alibaba express in case anyone's interested.


John,
A link please?

I searched Aliexpress for
"double roman ABS tiled sheets" and got covers for bog seats :D

John Palmer
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby John Palmer » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:24 pm

Paul, try https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32891296599.html?spm=2114.12057483.0.0.67632726jlGIFZ. Our (Burnham layout's) principal source of supply for these sheets was Penduke Models, but their website no longer carries this item. I reckon some factory in China is knocking them out and that a variety of different retailers may be carrying stocks of them from time to time. Aliexpress may well be the most stable source for them, and at the time of this posting the link I have given still works.

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Paul Townsend » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:00 pm

Thanks John, that worked fine.

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Paul Townsend » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:50 am

Those of you who have seen Highbridge know that many of the town "non-railway" buildings are still temporary card mockups. The final versions and new buildings for Dartmouth need to be roofed appropriately so I am in the market for decent tile sheets for Somerset and S. Devon.

I believe that Pantiles and Double Romans made from fired clay are the correct types for 1913 Highbridge and 1875 Dartmouth.

John Palmer wrote:Paul, try https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32891296599.html?spm=2114.12057483.0.0.67632726jlGIFZ. Our (Burnham layout's) principal source of supply for these sheets was Penduke Models, but their website no longer carries this item. I reckon some factory in China is knocking them out and that a variety of different retailers may be carrying stocks of them from time to time. Aliexpress may well be the most stable source for them, and at the time of this posting the link I have given still works.


My double Roman tile sheets arrived from AliXP ordered from John's link and, on opening the package, my immediate reaction was that they have sent 7mm version.
In between rain showers I have measured a real sample from my garden of Double Roman, as common in Bristol....used in 1920s roof on my home and compared to the AliXp ones they are not accurate scale.
Anyone who has replaced such a tile on their roof will know that the sizes varied between manufacturers so matching is tricky. Thus my reference sample may be atypical but I believe the variations were small, only an inch or so.

Measured exposed sizes ( actual tile is bigger to provide overlap)
Reference sample :
width 11.5 to 12", length 13.75", Ridge pitch 6", Ridge depth 1"
Scaled to 4mm:ft :
width 4mm, length 4.6mm, ridge pitch 2mm, ridge depth 0.3mm
AliXP plastic sheet:
Width cant determine in a sheet, probably 10mm, length 6mm, Ridge pitch 5mm, Ridge depth 1.7mm

Conclusion:
AliXP sheets are oversized, especially the ridges are pitched x2.5 too wide and roughly 6 x too deep! My measurements suggest these are a poor representation and as they are not cheap, a poor buy. Maybe better for S or 7mm scale?

Does this matter?
Scaling some measurements is known to " look wrong" so I would not be totally hung up on the length and width but the depth of ridges is a killer, they do not look right.

Editor Tim, who occasionally has strong opinions with which I disagree, saw these and was scathing. I reluctantly admit that he is right :( Thats his ration for this year!

Knowing John to be a meticulous modeller, I followed his recommendation to acquire these and conclude that I have not bought what he has used on Burnham.

PS
EditorTim of Clutton fame used HO pantiles by Kibri part marked 4142. Of course most of Clutton's buildings are viewed from a considerable distance so the finer appearance is good.

Googling for these shows some suppliers say " no longer made" or just no stock.
Kibri also appear to have redesignated them as 34142......
GaugeMaster's website show " available to order" so I have asked for some .....delivery date awaited.

I have a few in stock from old suppliers, no longer with us. I need to buy more .....

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1114
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Noel » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:22 am

I used to live in Torquay, and so went to Dartmouth from time to time, but that was a long time ago. However, my [definitely unreliable!] memories are of slate rather than tiles. From the 17th century onwards, Welsh slate was exported by sea in coasting vessels from a number of small ports, and in large quantities; as a port, Dartmouth would have been well placed to obtain such slate relatively cheaply. Despite its smaller output, a similar argument applies to Cornish slate, which is nearer. South Devon even has its own slate, although I don't think it's particularly high quality https://www.devon.gov.uk/geology/devons-rocks-a-geological-guide/ or http://www.devonrigs.org.uk/02Introduction.html. The traditional local building materials were generally stone [red sandstone and Dartmoor granite, mostly, plus some slate blocks (for walls) and limestone] for posher buildings, or cob and thatch otherwise, suggesting that the raw material for brick and tiles was lacking. Both could have been imported from elsewhere by sea, and later the railway, of course.
Regards
Noel

John Palmer
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby John Palmer » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:38 am

Paul, I am very sorry to have provided information about a product that is unfit for your intended purpose. I did so in the misguided belief that the various retailers of the double roman tile sheets must be re-badging an imported product all manufactured in the same mould.

I must admit that when I looked at the photographs of Andrew's model of the Cheddar goods shed the ridge depth of the tiles did seem more pronounced than the ones I had been using, but I put this down to difference in finish - Andrew has aplied a much darker finish to his than I have to tiles on Burnham buildings.

Now that I have taken some measurements of tiling applied to Burnham building models I am forced to the conclusion that the product supplied by Ali Express must indeed be different from the one used on Burnham roofs. On the Burnham tiling sheets, the ridge pitch is 4mm (cf Ali Express 5mm) and the ridge depth is no greater than 0.5mm (cf Ali Express 1.7mm (!) - an enormous difference that is highly significant visually). I was surprised by this finding because, viewed face on, the Ali Express tiling looked identical to the sheets we have used and tiles of this design seemed too esoteric to attract the attention of more than one manufacturer.

Incidentally, I am suprised by your figure of 6" as the ridge pitch of the prototype tile. I don't have a locally made double roman to hand that I can check, but I suspect the tiles made hereabouts were to a wider pitch than that. 'Bridgwater' double romans currently advertised by wienerberger.co.uk measure 420mm X 340mm (16.5" X 13.38"), which is a bit bigger than your sample.

Far from being a meticulous modeller, I confess to being only too ready to accept certain dimensional compromises provided I find acceptable the visual end result. It is so in the case of the double romans used on Burnham. The sheets we obtained from Penduke Models we recognised as being somewhat overscale, but not to such an extent as to disqualify them, given the alternatives. The fact is that there is, to my knowledge, no source of 4mm scale double roman tiles that are dimensionally accurate (whatever that may mean, given local variations). That meant that we either had to fabricate extensive areas of roof tiling from scratch or we had to accept a dimensionally compromised commercial product. I opted for the latter, and have few regrets about doing so.

Further investigation indicates that the probable UK source of the double romans we have used on Burnham is Tasma Products. The URL for the relevant sheets is https://www.tasmaproducts.com/materials/plastic-sheet/embossed-plastic-sheet-a4-tile-00-scale. But note from the 'About us' web page of this seller that the company is a distributor, and that the diversity of products offered is such as to suggest that Tasma is primarily an importer, so probably did not produce the tile mouldings in house.

So, it seems that there are at least two different moulds somewhere in the world that are being used to churn out double roman tile sheets, both ostensibly for the mythical 'OO scale'. One, for the tiles apparently available from Tasma, appears to be superior to the mould for those supplied through Ali Express, particularly as regards ridge depth. Both are dimensionally inaccurate for 4mm : 1' scale. Whether you are prepared to accept the compromise involved in using either product only you can decide.

My deepest apologies also go to Andrew if I have led him into buying an unacceptable product.

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1114
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Noel » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:55 am

A bit more on south Devon slates: http://www.stoneroof.org.uk/historic/Historic_Roofs/Devon_slates.html. Note Totnes [misspelt on the map], from which slates could come down the Dart by water. Also https://devonassoc.org.uk/devoninfo/dartmouth-report-from-the-geology-section/ for more detail.
Last edited by Noel on Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards
Noel

John Palmer
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby John Palmer » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:03 am

With much trepidation in view of the sins acknowledged in my previous post I'll make a further suggestion, namely to take a look at Slaters Old Dutch Pantile (part no. 0311) - the only item in what Slaters describe as their European Moulded Plastikard range. I can find no good picture of these on the web, but have measured the sample pack I have and find they have a ridge pitch of c. 3mm, and ridge depth =<0.5mm. For reasons I can't put my finger on they just don't look quite right to me - I think it may be relative proportions of width to length. Also, you get just two sheets measuring 7cm X 17cm per pack for which you pay £7.50 inc. VAT when buying from Slaters online (I picked up my pack somewhere for £6.83). If you prefer these as a more accurate representation then be prepared to put your hand deep in your pocket (I estimate that, had Andrew used these for the Cheddar roof, he might have had to pay in excess of £70 for the roof alone!)

User avatar
Re6/6
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:53 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Re6/6 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:45 am

Although a little OT, we had a serious problem using Slaters 'Plasticard' Flemish Bond sheets for the cladding on our Ouse Valley Viaduct. After starting the work we were somewhat irritated to find that the embossing wasn't straight as it sloped down on one side (two courses out over the width of the sheet) which made it difficult to mate the courses through 90 deg and we had 37 piers to cover! We could only assume that the moulding machine has worn over the years.

In the end we used SE Finecast sheets which were true but being vacuum formed they were slightly less 'crisp' but at least they were straight!
John

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Cheddar

Postby Paul Townsend » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:16 pm

Noel wrote:I used to live in Torquay, and so went to Dartmouth from time to time, but that was a long time ago. However, my [definitely unreliable!] memories are of slate rather than tiles. From the 17th century onwards, Welsh slate was exported by sea in coasting vessels from a number of small ports, and in large quantities; as a port, Dartmouth would have been well placed to obtain such slate relatively cheaply. Despite its smaller output, a similar argument applies to Cornish slate, which is nearer. South Devon even has its own slate, although I don't think it's particularly high quality https://www.devon.gov.uk/geology/devons-rocks-a-geological-guide/ or http://www.devonrigs.org.uk/02Introduction.html. The traditional local building materials were generally stone [red sandstone and Dartmoor granite, mostly, plus some slate blocks (for walls) and limestone] for posher buildings, or cob and thatch otherwise, suggesting that the raw material for brick and tiles was lacking. Both could have been imported from elsewhere by sea, and later the railway, of course.


A good illustration of memory tricks here.
Noe'ls post made me check my stock of Dartmouth town buildings photos, some by me in C21 and many published going back a century. Noel is right, the majority are grey slate.
I guess I had a senior moment when I started rabbitting on about tiles for Dartmouth.

Nevertheless, my need for more clay tiles is a definite for Highbridge, they were made right alongside the station in the brickworks modelled.


Return to “Andrew Ullyott”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest