MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

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PeteT
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MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby PeteT » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:50 pm

I hae posted some of the Rumney Models chassis construction photos in my general workbench topic, and in response to a couple of queries in Mark S's workbench.

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I have decided to split out the 1P from the rest of my workbench, as it makes sense to keep it separate and allow this to flow, and I'll do a separate one for the Ivatt tank which will probably have a few bits done in parrallel with this...

So the 1P chassis is running nicely, the main superstructure is assembled and weighted, so I now need to crack on and do some detailing! This week an etch popped through the door. Unlike the chassis, which was drawn by Justin and so well thought out/designed, I've drawn these bits up so while I have put thought into the concepts there are likely to be issues translating them into reality!

So, ignoring for a while the swing link pony truck bits on the left (I'll tackle these in an Ivatt topic if there is interest) - the main 1P parts are coal rails, coal rail extension plate (as fitted to 58066) and some front sandboxes to sit between the driving wheels. Not all locos had sandboxes, though those which did were of the same type. Coal rails on the drawing, and on early photos, tend to be fairly standard as 3 rails high - but certainly by the mid 50s there was quite a variety of options, most of which looked very much home grown!

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Tackling the coal rails first, as this was the design I had most concern with my ideas actually working when translated onto small pieces of metal...

The rails down the side of the bunker start in the back corners, and then curve round to fit against the back of the cab. I decided these curves would be easiest formed with a bit of a jig - and I thought a 1mm rad/2mm diameter would look about right.

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I was happy with how this bit had worked, so started assembling the rear rails to the uprights/frame, trying to do as much with things attached to the fret as I could to keep some structural integrity!

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Once the rear rails were attached and (partially) cleaned up, the side assemblies were added. The rear corners could do with revisiting - I thought I had managed to arrange them so they wouldn't collide in the corners as they fold up, but it isnt quite right. It may also be easier overall having one set of rails going all the way round, rather than just having the pinned joints in the corners (though the prototypes were separate sections, with a visible butt joint, which is why I went this route).

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The coal rail assembly and the tank lip (as supplied by Craftsman) will then need fitting. The end of the coal rails are tied together to keep them aligned properly when fixing, but I also drew a wing onto this the end of which will align with the outside of the cab and so jig that measurement. There is a half etch fold line part way along this, which should allow that fixing tie to be bent and snapped off once the coal rails have been soldered to the cab.

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As can be seen there is a fair bit of tidying up to do before I fit them, but while the corners didnt assemble quite as intended I am generally pleased with the way they went together, and am happy they will look the part once cleaned up!

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PeteT
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby PeteT » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:12 pm

Tonights progress has been a few cutting jobs, for the ashpan wrapper and cab floor.

I see myself more of a kit basher than scratch builder - my ability to cut and file things square isnt always great - however using 5 thou (as Justin recommended for the ashpan) made life much easier to cut and form. I first printed out a template, with the start of the curves on the ashpan also included, and set to...

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The cab floor one was from rough measurements trying to get the digital very-near calipers into the cab, so once printed out then needed a bit of trimming, but this is easier to start with using flimsy bits of paper which actually show where the tight spots are:

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Once I was happy with the paper one, the brass version copied it, and sits in nicely. This now just needs some packing pieces at the sides to sit the top of it at 3.5" above the footplate.

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Meanwhile, the ashpan was rolled up around a 3mm drill bit, and after a bit of trimming in the corners sat perfectly in its position in the keeper plate and has been soldered up (photo to follow tomorrow all being well, once I've cleaned it up a bit!)

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PeteT
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby PeteT » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:09 pm

More paper templates have been drawn and parts started to be fabricated - these for the coal hole and storage box in the rear of the cab. Drawn as per the GA in the Midland Profile book, and as covered by John on Mark S's topic.

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I have had a delivery from Alan Gibson, and while better proportioned it does leave a few more questions. While it is nice and thin, and the diameter of the door looks good, and the hinge looks better than the craftsman casting, there are issues.

1 minor one is a lack of location markers for the top handrail - no biggy really but will be noticeable if I drill off square.

More majorly, the door fixings are incorrect for the 1P - 3 around the top half is good, but (as per the Craftsman casting) there should be 4 round the lower half. There is a difference in the width of the hinge straps, and the Gibson ones might be a bit too wide, but not far off.

So overall, I think I will work with the Gibson one as it will look much better - but it will need a bit of fettling to make it look right.

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Dave Holt
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby Dave Holt » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:39 pm

Pete.
I really like the way you jigged the bending bar location for the coal rails. That is an example of clever thinking and planning. Well done.
Dave.

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PeteT
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby PeteT » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:49 am

Thanks Dave, yes I've learn from other kits which bits I find difficult to form or build, and so put some thought into how to make my life easier!

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PeteT
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby PeteT » Thu May 09, 2019 8:37 pm

The next part of the jigsaw (and final part of the chassis before that can hit the paintshops) is now coming together, in the form of an etching for the brake cylinder. For my 1P (58066) this is of horizontal version. The more I looked at the Craftsman casting, the poorer it looked. There is a very visible flange at one end, and bolt heads holding the lid (?) on.

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The main cylinder casing I rolled around a 3mm tube which gets it to pretty much the right diameter. From here I fitted the rear end, but not the front as I thought if I did that I would end up filling in the holes required for the bolts. This made holding it all together a bit tricky, but with a bit of patience did come together nicely. I have just added the bolt pins, and am i the process of cleaning them up, so will add the photo of that here once tidy! Photos of things at several times life size look bad enough with stray solder and overlength bolts (0.31mm wire) all over the place...

essdee
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby essdee » Fri May 10, 2019 9:56 am

That is uncanny timing, Pete - I have only just started on one of Justin's chassis etches, as a pilot scheme for a pair of SDJR 0-4-4T that I am building. Both designs differ above the footplate from the MR version, but the chassis dimensions are essentially the same as for the MR version, I am presently comparing the frame profiles.

I would be very interested in buying from you a pair of these brake cylinder etches if they are available, by any chance?

A very neat piece of work!

Cheers,

Steve

John Palmer
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby John Palmer » Fri May 10, 2019 10:54 am

That's a neat design for the brake cylinder, Pete.

You appear to have a hole for the inlet pipe from the brake valve at a 45 degree angle from the cylinder centreline, viewed in elevation, yet drawing 91-353S on page 9 of the Wild Swan Profile of the 1833 and 2228 class bogie tanks suggests it should be vertically above that centreline. Have you information indicating that they changed the arrangement shown in 91-353S?

I have only just realised that the steam brake cylinder arrangement on the 2228 class engines is completely different from that of the earlier bogie tanks. On the earlier engines inlet steam is acting on the same side of the piston as the actuating rod, whilst on the 2228 class engines it's acting on the other side of the piston. No doubt this accounts for the gland through which the piston rod passes on the earlier engines, which appears not to be present on the 2228s, permitting a conical cross-section of the cylinder cover on those engines. For my own 2228, no. 58086, I think I will probably stick with a turned version on which the coning of the cover is easier to represent.

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PeteT
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby PeteT » Fri May 10, 2019 3:22 pm

Hi Steve, sounds like you're on a very similar path to John! Yes I'm sure I can arrange an extra etch or two...

John. Very good question. I used the drawing on page 8, but for some reason hadn't paid much (/enough) attention to page 9 :? . However this may be another section where design & reality differed. My cylinder scales at 1'1.05", while page 9 says 1'1.25" - but there is something about it in place which just looks a bit small. I'm about to head off for the weekend, but leaves me with something to assess on Sunday evening!

It looks right dimensionally against the drawings - and to a certain extent how the drawing shows it looking alongside the sandbox - but the photos I have (2 good ones) showing the relationship, the cylinder looks fatter. There isnt much room to expand the diameter though before the cylinder would collide with the frame! Justin & I have evidently measured/used the drawings to line up the brake gear to the piston on my cylinder (ie we match!) so I'm not sure yet why I dont think it looks quite right...

(I know the body isnt quite sat correctly in these photos)

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essdee
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby essdee » Fri May 10, 2019 5:43 pm

Thanks Pete, that's good of you - I would like two etches please, no rush at all though.

I am on a similar but parallel path to John! I am building the first Rumney chassis for an old JM models kit for the SDJR 'Avonside' 0-4-4T, the smaller of their two classes. I have the basic footplate and body shell assembled, minus cab. The kit's chassis was sketchy, the kit being a shot-down version of a 7mm etch; so Justin has saved me a pile of work in retro-fitting CSB to it - quite apart from the lovely ashpan and other detail so evident in your pics.

After this, I will be doing the larger-tanked 'Vulcan' 0-4-4T; for which the revised Craftsman kit (with etched components) will provide much of the bodywork, though the MR tanks and bunker are too short, annoyingly! The Vulcan will probably use a second Rumney chassis. This will leave my original early WM Craftsman build, started and aborted back in 1982, to be melted down for ballast weights?

A couple of separate queries, please. Your bogie suspension details look like Justin's work - a prototype of the very fine whitemetal castings as sent with my kit? And the driving wheel axle - is that a locking device I see; a ground slot in the end, then drilled through into the wheel boss; cunning, if so!

Your assembled brake cylinder looks so much better than the WM casting supplied, well done there.

Following your thread attentively...

Cheers,

Steve

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PeteT
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby PeteT » Sun May 12, 2019 9:20 pm

Hi Steve,

Those sound like interesting projects - though I must admit I try to ignore the detail differences for the variants not applicable to the one I'm doing - there is only so much my brain can cope with, and is an attempt to not remember the wrong details at the wrong time!

The bogie details on mine (the test etch) and the first few production I believe were straight 3D prints (designed by Justin, printed via Modelu) from which castings have since been produced. The driving axles were slotted with a piercing saw, and once happy with the quartered I used this as a guide to drill through the wheel, and pinned with a bit of brass wire and filled up with araldite.

Thanks for the interest and compliment on the cylinder. I'm still a bit confused having been looking at it again this evening. Most photos are from odd angles so may skew how things look. There is a good side on photo on the front of the Wild Swan book covering these locos, loco 1368, and on there the cylinder does look about the same as mine - however the photos I have of 58066, and the photo of 1272 in Midland Record No. 5 (P77, upper) do look fatter, both from the gap left between the cylinder the footplate,and in proximity to the edge of the footplate. I'll have to re-read all the words and see if a beefier design was fitted later in their lives - I'm pretty sure it isn't just my eyes playing tricks!

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PeteT
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby PeteT » Mon May 13, 2019 6:02 pm

Interestingly, looking at the Bachmann EP on RMWeb (yes, I know, don't model a model - just looking at how they are doing things) they appear to have used to same drawing as me for the cylinder.

I think, on reflection, mine just looked a bit odd to me due to the body/chassis interaction not being quite right, and therefore I'm looking at it in relation to the frame rather than the bottom of the valance. There was a wire stopping it sitting properly, so I have reseated it and got that in the right place, and it does look a lot better :D

So once I have fixed that in place, and I've added the sanding gear pipework, the chassis will be ready for the paint shops. Body detailing will recommence from the front, and I think the only bits I havent fully worked out my plans for are the tank fillers and rear spectacle plate guards (a good photo showing both is on page 47 of the Wild Swan book). The tank stays should probably be added to that list, but I at least have an idea of attempt 1 with some strips of metal...

The first job back on the body will be to fit the Alan Gibson smokebox door, and build up the cylinder cover as the Craftsman WM casting is too short...

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PeteT
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Re: MR 1P 0-4-4T detailing

Postby PeteT » Fri May 17, 2019 2:14 pm

I presume the inside motion and inside of the frames would be (weathered) red on these? Most steam era photos being black and white, and those which are colour are not at the angles which make these things obvious. I presume the reasoning would be the same as on preserved stuff though, that signs of wear are easier to spot?

Not quite onto the painting, and away next week, but hoping to kick that off soon on the chassis. The plan is to actually get that round tuit out and play with the airbrush. I've always had good results from rattle cans, but I know mastering the airbrush will be worth the effort time.


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