Johnson 1P

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Serjt-Dave
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Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:47 pm

Hi All. As I was hoping to have the 4f done and dusted {HA!} I decided to start my next loco, a Johnson 1p 0-4-4 Tank Engine. This will be based around a Craftsman kit and the Rumney Models chassis.

The Craftsman kit I got off of evil bay and it came with a set of Ultrascale wheels. As this is a round top 1p I'll be making it as S&D engine 1303 or as it was later 58047.

As you do, I started with the chassis. The Rumney chassis goes together well and it has some nice features like the removable keeper plate which makes wheel removal so much more easy. I've basically got it a rolling chassis but due to me ordering the wrong hornblocks for the bogie production has halted. Whilst I wait for the replacement parts I thought I'd get on the the body. Lord know how old the design of the Craftsman kit is but it does go together quite well but it's certainly not up to today's standard. First thing I had to change was the buffer beam. 1303 had rounded ends and was quite thick. So I rounded the ends of buffer beam etch and fitted them to the footplate along with the valances. I then using scrap etch strips built up the thickness of the buffer beam and then filed them to match the rounded end of the buffer beam. This loco didn't have any overhang of the footplate over the buffer beam so I filed it flush. The buffers were added next but they needed to have packing pieces added behind them on the buffer beam. I then soldered in place the rear bunker. I cocked up a bit hear, I should have soldered the bunker rear as far forwards as I could to create more of a ledge between the bunker and buffer beam. I made up the tank sides next but the tank tops had to be reduced in length as they came to far into the cab. Once they were shortened { and yes I did cut one too short} I soldered them to the tank sides but slightly below the top edge to create a lip. I added some thin sheeting to the inside of the tanks in the cab area to finish them off. I held off from fitting them on to the footplate until I had sorted out the back of the cab and the coal space etc. This kit was designed to take a Ringfield motor the arse of which filled the cab area. The bloody great hole had to be filled. I took the original part that fitted into the bunker and modified it. Where the coal would sit was plated over so I cut out the centre section to create the coal space and either side of the coal space would be the rear tanks {I didn't know there was water tanks in the coal bunker}. The front part of the original part is meant to fold down to form sort of legs to support the rear of the cab, I cut these just past the fold lines and at an angle which would become the front and top of the rear tanks. Using scrap material I made up and fitted the sides, back and the bottom of the coal space. Again using scrap material I made up the front of the bunker, coal space and tanks, fitting also the coal chute. This just left a hole in the top of the bunker inside the cab. On the real loco there was a locker in this position. I made up the lid of the locker out of some scrap and added a latch and hinges and soldered it into place. I had to make the lid slightly over size to cover the hole, but I think it works. Before fitting the top part of the cab I added spectacle plates over the windows, the front ones were made from washers the rear ones are the ones supplied with the kit and had bars in them which I removed and added better ones to the cab rear. Next I soldered the main tanks in place and added the beading to the top of the bunker and tanks. Before I soldered the top of the cab in place I made up a floor. As there were all sorts of funny angles and shapes to contend with I used paper templates. Once happy with a paper template I used it to make one from some brass sheet and of course it didn't fit. So much for the template. After some fettling I got the floor fit. I then soldered the top half of cab into place. As with all edging on a loco it would have had a beading covering it. The cab opening didn't have any supplied with the kit but I was lucky to find some etch beading in my scrap box.
Well that's the state of play with my 1p at the moment, I will keep on the the body works until the replacement arrives and I can get the chassis finished.

Keep Safe
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Paul Townsend
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Paul Townsend » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:21 pm

I have had one of these running on Highbridge for many years. Since it predates the Rumney chassis it has a DiY job which works adequately.
I have a second to build and that will have a Justin (Rumney) chassis.

I like your detailed mods and wonder if you will be do any of the Pete Tarver enhancements?

Bad luck about the lever frame and leg accident!

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:51 pm

Thanks Paul. I think the first one I brought was about 1982 {ish} and paid £29 for it. Most of the ones I've got off E bay have been almost three times as much. I would have love to have some of Peters etches on my loco, especially the tank fillers but alas he's unable to produces the etches. If I can survive a Brassmasters 4f I can deal with anything. LOL.

Keep Safe

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:29 pm

Whilst waiting for paint to dry on my LMS coach and getting board painting it's passengers I thought I starting tucking into my next unfinished project, the Johnson 1P. So removing said item off my restocked shelf of shame I set about reminding myself where I had left off. Body work about 30% done and the chassis about 60% complete. The pile of orrible castings soon put me off tackling the body so I collected all the chassis bits and bobs. Checking things through, the next job was assemble the gearbox and motor and fit to the chassis. That all went well. Next I wanted to check that I had the rear bogie made up correctly and checking that I attached it to the chassis. Looking at the instruction I had almost come to the end leaving only the boiler band clips and the ashpan. There is no part for this supplied with the Rumney chassis kit other than the front and rear pated that are attached to the keeper plate. Looking at Pete T thread on his build he has made up a template for the ashpan. I made up a piece of n/s to the recommended size. If you bend up the ashpan and fit straight to the keeper plate you won't be able to attach the due to the brake shaft being in the way. On the real engine Johnson had it where the ashpan was cut around the brake shaft. What was Johnson smoking at the time he thought that one up. Common sense prevailed and it looks like on some engines had a shorter ashpan or it arched over the brake shaft and this is the option I went for.

Thankfully Mr Palmer had had outlined this modification of the ashpan on a GA Drawing which was very helpful {thanks John}, so I could work out where I needed to cut and shape the ashpan. First of all I bent up the ashpan to it's full length and worked out how far back it needed to be removed to clear the brake shaft which was about 4mm and scribed a line. This is where I would put a bulkhead. I then marked 3mm from the edge, this is where I would cut to just to be on the safe side. I then made up from scrap n/s a bulkhead and soldered to the underside of the ashpan at the 4mm mark. After checking the fit I ended up filing the rear edge back to the 4mm mark a bulkhead. I had only removed the bottom of the ashpan to clear the brake shaft, I now needed to remove and shape the rest of the rear of the ashpan which is like a backwards S. Once done I rounded all the edges of the ashpan and then removed the top half of the original rear bulkhead on the keeper plate. I needed to retain the bottom half as it's a guide and support for the link that holds the bogie to the chassis. I'm pleased with how the ashpan turned out. I think I've still got to add some rivet details but that's for another day.

Keep Safe

Dave
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John Palmer
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby John Palmer » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:26 pm

Looking good, Dave!

I recommend you to profit from my error and substitute a more accurate smokebox door in the place of the one supplied by Craftsman, which is too deeply dished and oversize in diameter. If there was one thing I could now change on my model of 58047 it would be this, but too late did I learn of the availability of more suitable doors see https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=5905&p=65928&hilit=Oh+dear+1P#p65923. You may well need to fashion a new 'horseshoe' plate for the front of the smokebox in order to fit a smaller diameter door, but In my view it will be worth it.

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:37 pm

Thanks John. I hope you and yours are keeping well. Yes I remembered you telling me about the Craftsman casting being incorrect so I got a Gibson one. The main issue with the Gibson door is the locking bolts were in the wrong place. Pete T mentions this in his thread on the 1P. I removed one and added two in the correct position. If you look at the top of the door you'll see the shadows of the two holes for the handrail knobs. I got the handrail all soldered in looking quite nice {even if I do say so myself} and then realised the handrail is meant to be below the top hinge. By then I had enough of snapping drill bits drill through the cast brass so will have to redo the handrail.

My next job was to make up and replace the brake cylinder. The one supplied with the Craftsman kit is bloody awful. I used the GA Drawings to guide me through the process and I think it turned out quite well {again even if I do say so myself}. A couple of issues I had with it though, when I soldered bits of wire into the top plate of the cylinder to represent the eight bolts that fix the top plate to the cylinder body, the solder filled in the gap between the top plate and and the flange plate. The other issue was when I attached it to the chassis I had to pack it out to align with the brake leaver pull rod thingy. I checked all my sizes etc so I don't know what went wrong there.

Next is to either replace of hack about these sandboxes.

Keep Safe

Dave
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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:22 pm

Evening All. Basically finished constructing the chassis today. Made up and fitted the sandboxes. It was either totally scratch build them or modify them. I chose to modify them and in hindsight I wish I had made made them from scratch. Spent a lot of time squaring up very poor castings only then having to remove great chunks of them to get them to the correct size. Still I know for the next time. Other than a little more detail work on the chassis and fitting pickups etc it's done but that will have to wait while I finish off painting my coach.

Keep Safe

Dave

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John Palmer
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby John Palmer » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:07 am

Those look like very neat jobs both on the brake cylinder and the smokebox door - I can't detect where you changed the locking dog positions. Smokebox door handrail positions could be a moving feast: on 58086 the rail was above the top hinge on arrival on the Dorset, but was subseqeuently repositioned below it. No change in position with 58047 so far as I am aware.

I'd be interested to know why the brake piston arrangement was changed on the 2228 class; I suspect it may have been to avoid making brake pressure dependent on the integrity of the gland through which the brake piston rod passed.

Two sandboxes down, but the two leading sandboxes (and associated filler caps) to go. A nice straightforward job with gravity sanders. Will you be fitting a representation of the brake release spring that attaches to the offside trailing brake hanger?

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:08 am

Hi John. I'll be attaching what to where now? LOL. I would do if I knew what it was. Do you have a image of one?

I keep forgetting about the front sandboxes. These will be pretty straight forward to make and attach though you can barely see them tucked underneath the footplate. As you say the sandpipes are nice and simple but I will leave them off till the end before fitting as they get in the way.

Keep Safe

Dave

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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby John Palmer » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:04 am

If you have a copy of the Wild Swan profile on Midland 1833 and 2228 class bogie tanks you can find a drawing that shows the brake release spring arrangement as applied to the nearside leading hanger at page 32 (I can let you have a copy if you don't have this profile). I don't have a photograph clearly showing the release spring on 58047, so I'm attaching a picture showing my representation of it on my model. As you can see, it had to be attached to the trailing hanger on this locomotive due to the presence of the leading sandboxes.
58047 brake release spring.jpg
It's a very simple turning with the spring coils simulated by shallow plunge cuts with a parting tool. The picture also shows my attempt at representing the 'double hanger' arrangement for each brake shoe that was a characteristic of this locomotive.
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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:04 pm

Thanks John, now I know what to look for. Yes I do have a copy of the Profile book thanks. I don't have a lathe so will make the spring from a suitable gauge bit of copper wire. It's weird that it's only on one side? I can just see the front sandbox and the down pipe. Even on the actual engine the pipe drops the sand well ahead of the wheel which must make it less effective when pulling away? Some of the class had a sandbox between the drivers and it's pipe dropped sand ahead of the rear driver giving it sand both fore and aft.

Oh well back to painting passengers for the Bridgewater service.

Keep Safe

Dave

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:31 pm

Hi All. Brimley it's been over year since I last posted on this build. I decided to put this build to one side while I have ago at starting the scenic element of my layout. Well that didn't to any great effect and then of course I got side track into make other bits of rolling stock etc.

I've now decided to crack on and get this bugger finished. I now have a almost complete chassis other than a few cosmetic items to finish like the front sandboxes and a brake release spring to make and fit. It runs quite well but needs to be tested with the correct weight and balance applied. We won't mention the "Gauge the Issue" issue, will we!!!

I'm pleased how the body is coming on. Boiler now attached and I had to scratch build the front mock frames and steam chest. However I forgot to add the rivet detail to the frames so will have to apply these using either 3D printed or transfer type rivets. Next it's just a case of fitting out the rest of the boiler fittings and when this is down I can then fit the white metal parts like the splashers etc. At the moment the roof is removable but I'll probably fit this permanently when all finished and painted.

Here are some images of the latest work done so far and hopefully the next update won't be too far away.

All Best

Dave
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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:33 am

Hi All.
A brief update on my progress with this 1P build. I've been adding weight to the body and chassis which is improving the ride of the loco. I got to the point where it's running well but I didn't want to add any more weight until I got the big items fitted to the body like the dome, chimney, splashers etc. Everything was going well until I fitted the splashers. The splashers are quite chunky and too wide. In fact the GA drawings have them at 7 3/4" wide, where the castings work out about 15" wide. I knew I wasn't going to be able to reduce the splashers to the scale width due to the wheel cutout in the footplate. So at first I reduced the width from 5mm to 4mm. A test fit revealed I could tweak it a little more. I removed another 0.5mm bringing the width to 3.5mm {approx. 10"}. This certainly looked better and just covered the wheel cutout in the footplate. I soldered them in place. I was quite prepared to skim some material from the inside of the splashers to create some clearances if needed and in fact I did. Using a Dremel I carefully removed material from the inside of the splashers. I had just about got clearance sorted but decided to do one more pass and that's when I broke through the splasher wall. Oh Nutts! The thickness of the casting is about 1mm but this includes the beading, the thickness of the wall of the splasher is a little thinner.

After the swearing had stopped I needed to decide what to do. I'm not keen on trying to repair it. Making one out of brass would be good but I don't think I've got the skill set to be able to make a convincing job. I have a spare Craftsman 1P kit which I have already raided to swapped some of the bad castings for better ones and the castings I had already swapped. But the needs must when the devil drives. I've reduced the width of the replacement splashers to 4mm and will lightly skim some material from the inside on them.

Hopefully my next update will have better news. LOL.

All Best

Dave
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Will L
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Will L » Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:51 am

Serjt-Dave wrote:After the swearing had stopped I needed to decide what to do. I'm not keen on trying to repair it.

Repairing White metal castings really is not a problem, just blob some low melt into the hole (from the back preferably) and file back to the right profile. On of the "nice" things is this ability to add low melt to a casting and sculpt it back.

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:55 pm

Dave,

the LNWR Watford Tank had the same size driving wheels and the leading axle splasher looks very similar, also having a crankpin splasher.. It is possible that LRM could supply replacements from their kit that would fit.

Jol

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:08 pm

Thanks for the replies Will and Jo.
I took your advise Will and had ago in repairing the Splasher. But before sculpting the outside face of the splasher I first made sure I had good clearances with the chassis and wheels. I'm glad to say I managed to remove a little more material from the inside of both splashers without causing any further damage, I then refitted the chassis and did a test run and all good. Tackling the outside went fairly well and the splasher face cleaned up quite well. However On spotting a small hole where the wheel cutout meets the outside edge of the splasher, I tried filling with the soldering iron and larger hole appeared. More swearing occurred. I thought what the hell and dropped a big blob of solder onto the splasher and filled the hole. Then spent several hours carefully sculpting the splasher face again. It cleaned up okay this time but another hole appeared but this time I filled it with some layers of super glue. I'll do some more cleaning and shaping tomorrow and see what it comes out like.

Jo. I looked at the Watford Tank and your right the splashers are very similar. The only difference I could see is the Watford Splashers had rounded beading rather then flat. That wouldn't be a issues in filing flat. I might see if LRM will supply me some just to be on the safe side.

I'll post an image if all goes well.

Dave

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Will L
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Will L » Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:10 pm

Serjt-Dave wrote: ...On spotting a small hole where the wheel cutout meets the outside edge of the splasher, I tried filling with the soldering iron and larger hole appeared. More swearing occurred. I thought what the hell and dropped a big blob of solder onto the splasher and filled the hole...

The trick when soldering white metal with low melt solder is to flood the joint with plentiful liquid flux. While this is boiling away the white metal isn't going to melt, so you just have to remember to remove the iron will the joint is still hissing. Once you've learned that trick white metal soldering hold no terrors and you can forget about special irons running at low temperatures too. Building up missing/damaged pieces with low melt is a normal part of the game.

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:54 am

Hi All.

Well I think this is the best I'm going to get it. The dark patches are super glue. I didn't want to risk using the iron again. Most of that on the bottom edge may clean off as there are no holes behind it. It is smooth and flush so when I spray some primer on that area I'll be to see if it needs any more smoothing or filling. Sadly the casting has lost it's crispness on the beading edges but some subtle weathering {yeah right} will help hide my misadventure.

Also you can see I've now soldered the chimney in place, which I'm still fettling in.

Dave
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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:00 am

Dave,

Although the beading on the model on the LRM website looks rather rounded, the patterns I made for LRM had flat beading as per the prototype.

Jol.

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 am

You would know then Jo. LOL. The picture on LRM website does look like the beading is half round. If I'm able to obtain some of these splashers it will be one less job to sort out. Thanks Jo.

Dave

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Winander
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Winander » Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:59 pm

Dave,

I have ones for the DX that I assume will be similar, stock LNWR. The beading looks distinctly finer than yours, or perhaps the angle of the photo is showing some of the top? You could beef it up with wire and solder as the splashers are brass.

hth
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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:06 pm

Thanks Winander for the offer but I've decided to move on {and as quickly as possible}. What has also helped is that the crank splashers on the loco are plain, where the castings have beading. I filed away the beading and this improved the bottom edge.

With the chimney fitted and cleaned up I moved onto making the coal rails. This I did using some 1mm angle brass and the coal rails from a Brassmasters Jinty upgrade kit. I'm pleased how they have turned out but I was a little heavy handed with forming the rivets.

I then made up the steps. I used the steps backplate supplied with the kit but the treads I binned due to being too thick. Instead I some I had left over from the Brassmaster Jinty upgrade kit. I'll fit the steps towards the end of the build as I have a tendency of knocking and bending these buggers. Also the rear top step has a sort of reinforcing plate above the tread. Again I'll add this once the the steps are fitted and use a thin piece of plasticard.

Next on the to do list is to tackle all the little bits and pieces on the tank tops. I'm not looking forwards to making the filler caps.

Dave
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sat Apr 23, 2022 7:52 am

More work on my Johnson 1P. I had to pull my big boy pants on and make the tank filler lids. Forming the oval shape was going to be the issue. I looked in my scraps bin for any oval shaped pieces or even a oval hole in an etch. Then I remembered the number plates from the lever frame kit, low and behold they were almost perfect. Slightly undersized in the width but I won't mention it if you don't. I soldered them to a piece of thin plate material and filled to shape. The hinge and lid catch were made from the thin plate material and soldered on top of the lid. I added a little piece of brass wire to the hinge and a modified turned coach handle to the lid catch. Both lids were then soldered into place on top of the tanks. I also added the boiler cladding clamps to the tank tops, theses are supplied in the Rumney Models chassis kit. I also made up the supports for the ejector control rod that passes over the righthand tanks. These were modified Gibson medium handrail knobs.

I then turned my attention to fitting the rear lamp irons. These lamp irons were fixed in place on a short spindle. Mr Johnson didn't give a shite about us modeler's when he designed them back in the 1880's. LOL. I used some thin 1mm wide brass strip, drilled a 0.4mm hole, then bent the strip just below the hole and then soldered a piece of 0.4mm wire into the hole. I then filed the piece to shape and then soldered them on to the bunker. All the original slots in the bunker had to be filled as they were not in the correct place.

Next on the to-do list are the lamp irons at the front of the loco and fitting the steps in place. This will lead onto adding the pipe work underneath the footplate and adding the buffer beam details.

All Best

Dave
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John Palmer
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby John Palmer » Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:07 am

Tip my hat to you, Dave, for those bunker lamp irons. I wimped out at the prospect of trying to represent the horizontal pillars on which those irons were mounted.

Re: the discussion upthread of brake release springs, closer examination of the pictures I hold of this locomotive show that such a spring was fitted to the trailing brake hangers on both sides.

Must now be close to the final furlong on this locomotive. Looking forward to seeing your take on the electrical connections for the motor train apparatus and the ejector, which fortunately doesn't require the complex shape of the version found on LMS and later MR locomotives.

Edited to add that I trust you enjoyed your ride on the Seven's footplate as much as I did mine - magical! The previous occasion I had been under way on that footplate was about 45 years ago when she was hauled dead from Frome to Norton Fitzwarren; how different to have a live engine under your feet.
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johndarch
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Re: Johnson 1P

Postby johndarch » Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:09 am

Great work Dave.


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