Brassmaster 4F The journey

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sat May 09, 2020 9:45 pm

My 4F is now very close to being finished, constructed anyway but have been waiting on some replacement parts. All but one have arrived and have been fitted. The outstanding parts I wanted were the Air Relief Valves. I was hoping to get replacements from Alan Gibson but their ones aren't sold separately. I don't know of any other manufacture. So I decided to have another go in making my own replacements. My first efforts I tried improving the original ones supplied with the kit {ex-South Eastern Finecast} but weren't happy with the end result. This time I used some brass rod. I found drilling holes into it was okay but I struggled keeping it square when I cut it to length. I'm happier with these but feel they lack detail like the little holes around the bottom of the valve.

What do you think?

Keep Safe

Dave
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Noel
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Noel » Sun May 10, 2020 8:59 am

Serjt-Dave wrote:I'm happier with these but feel they lack detail like the little holes around the bottom of the valve. What do you think?


It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks; you clearly have your own personal, very high, standards. However, how visible are these holes at a normal viewing distance, in terms of size and location? If, as I suspect, they are very small, how easy, or otherwise, will it be to avoid clogging them with paint? How much will it bother you in future if you don't make the holes, and what else will you be able to do with the time if you don't?
Regards
Noel

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sun May 10, 2020 12:48 pm

I understand what your saying Noel and I wouldn't attempt to do the holes as one thing will surely stick out is the holes were not even or level. It's just a shame Brassmaster didn't provide decent casting in the first place.

Keep Safe.

Dave

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Thu May 28, 2020 9:51 am

Hi All. I was hoping to report that I've finished building my 4f. But due to a chassis issue {in fact the motor} it was not to be. However I have finished the body and after a good clean will be off to the paintshop. A big thank you to Morgan for supplying me with some 3D printed Air Valves.

The last time I ran the chassis I noticed the motor was getting quite warm. I also noticed one of the wheels on the front axle was not quite square to the frames and as the chassis needed to be repainted {touched up} I'll sort out the niggles at the same time. To remove the wheel sets I first needed to remove the brake gear and half way through de-soldering it I remembered that it was only clipped into place so I could remove it if I ever needed to remove the wheel sets, {bugger}. Out came the front wheel set and checking it the wheels seemed to be spot on and squared to the axle. Hmm! Replacing the axle into the hornblock guides there seemed to be enough slack that you could have a party in. That's not good I thought. Checking the other axles they were loose but not as bad as the front axle. I decided to replace all six of the hornblocks just to be on the safe side. While the wheels were off the centre axle I took the opportunity to remove the axle sleeve that locks the inside motion to the main axle. The chassis all though was fairly smooth running, even with the inside motion engaged but it was never free wheeling. Once all back together it totally transformed the chassis. Happy with that I tried it under power and although it was better the motor was still getting hot. I thought it would be better to replace the motor. I thought I had a worm puller but I hadn't so I used my wheel puller and as I was screwing down the ram it slipped and I damaged the worm, {bugger again}. So I've got to wait for a replacement worm to complete the build. Happy Days. Anyway here's the completed body before it gets covered in BR grime. Keep Safe.

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Andy W
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Andy W » Thu May 28, 2020 12:11 pm

Dave, I hope you resolve your chassis issues as the body deserves something good to run on.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:22 pm

Hi All. Just before the tender of my 4f went off to the paintshop I was talking with John Palmer regarding the Whitaker tablet exchanger. John informed me that we was working on designing at etch of the catcher part and kindly offered me a couple of the test etches.

In time they duly arrived and I set about adding one to the tender. They are bloody small to say the least but went together quite well, the one cock up I made was down to me rather than the etch. Luckily I managed to correct the mistake without causing any issues. The only problem I had with the etch itself was with the spring clip {which is the long thin strip of etch} it has four folds to do and whilst doing them it pinged off to lord knows where. The second one I folded up and fitted without issue but due to the fragile nature of this part the folded ends broke off whilst I was cleaning the catcher up. I replaced the spring clip with some brass wire.

The catcher support and deploying mechanism I made up from scrap brass fret and some brass wire and tubing. I think it turned out rather well and a big thanks to John for donating his etches. Now to cover it in paint so you can see it. LOL.

All Best and Keep Safe

Dave

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John Palmer
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby John Palmer » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:23 pm

Dave has made a first class job of my tyro's attempt to create a suitable etching for a Whitaker Engine Exchanger, and his work on the fittings for extending the apparatus into the exchange position look as though they could be made to work! I did the design as infills on the artwork for a range of architectural components, and largely as a test to see how well the gear could be reproduced by etching. Dave's feedback on the shortcomings in the design has been invaluable and have suggested a number of design changes that will hopefully improve the finished article as and when I next send some artwork to the etchers. I'm attaching a composite shot showing two views of a part-assembled exchanger which may help to give a better close-up view of the exchanger's body, which measures about 7 mm in length:
Two views of exchanger body.jpg
As you can see Dave has got further with his than I did: he managed to complete one, whereas I have yet to add the spring clip assembly that held the outgoing tablet pouch.

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:29 pm

Since my last update the 4f is finally been painted and numbered. Just as I sprayed the flat coat the weather turned very hot and I think it's effected the finish {not the fuzzy stuff inbetween the BRITISH RAILWAYS, that was me not wearing gloves handling the tender} but in some areas it's a bit mottled and a few shiny patches. So will wait till it becomes more cooler and get it weathered and up and running.

Keep Safe
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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:42 pm

Hi All and a Happy New Year to You All and I hope you are all keeping safe and well.

Well my Brassmaster 4f journey is over and as befitting with this build it fought me to the bitter end.

As for the finished model I think it's captured the look and power of a Fowler 4f. Regarding the Brassmaster kit I was very disappointed with it and I'll leave it as that {I get too stressed otherwise}. The running of the loco is very good and this is my first CBS suspension loco. The tender I had to arrange the pivot points myself and I don't think I've got the balance quite right with the tender and will need a bit more weight at the back. To be honest I'm not a great fan of CBS mainly for the fact I don't really understand the process. I need to take the body off the chassis as it's not sitting quite right. Other than that I have to fit the S&W couplings and it can enter into service.

Would I build another one, sadly yes, as I have two more of these little darlings to build, but I'm a little wiser now. LOL.

Keep Safe

Dave

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Craig Warton
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Craig Warton » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:52 pm

Dave,

I have been following your combat with the 4F with great interest as I have one stashed away in my wall of death. So, seeing what you have gone through I am at least prepared for things. I actually found a second one for sale out here that was very cheap (and a Deeley 0-4-0) so I had an impulse buy (actually two)

I look forward to seeing how the second one goes!

Regards,

Craig

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:09 pm

Hi Craig. I'm the first one to admit it could be me and not the kit. I don't claim to be any good at this hobby in anyway shape or form but I can read and follow instructions and to me this kit has issues.

The two other Brassmaster 4f's I got were very cheap as well, I wonder why?? Hopefully when I pluck up the courage to do the other ones I will know how to get round the issues before falling foul to them. First thing, replace all the white metal castings. LOL.

Keep Safe.

Dave

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Will L
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Will L » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am

Serjt-Dave wrote:... The running of the loco is very good and this is my first CBS suspension loco.
I'm glad that worked for you
The tender I had to arrange the pivot points myself and I don't think I've got the balance quite right with the tender and will need a bit more weight at the back. To be honest I'm not a great fan of CBS mainly for the fact I don't really understand the process.

Pity. When it comes to Fulcrum point locations, the basic rule is don't guess, I wouldn't and I do have an understanding of what's going on. The location of the fulcrums isn't intuitive. There should be no doubt about where the vehicles centre of gravity should be, so the need to play with the weight distribution is indicative of problems which are likely to lead to so some wheels not carrying as much as the vehicle weight as is desirable. Tenders are actually an ideal vehicle to apply CSB to as Dave Franks (Lanarkshire Models) has been ably demonstrating.

My concern is that people will decide they know better, guess and produce a poor performer. Then claim CSBs don't work. I know the spread sheets can be a bit of a worry, both Alan's and mine are very different yet produce the same results so if you struggle with one try the other. Alternatively it only takes me a few minutes to run up a plot given the required wheel base.

In any event, whatever the issues, the finished model certainly photographs very nicely, you should be pleased with that.

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:05 am

Hi Will. I do agree with what your saying and your dead right in saying that "don't guess the fulcrum points" because that's exactly what I did. LOL. When stripping the tender down this morning I noticed the spring wire on one side wasn't going through the hole in the plate that's attached to the hornblock on the rear axle, so that probably didn't help. The CBS on the loco is that was supplied with the kit so to speak and does work very well. Overall the running and performance is very good and I'm happy with how it's runs. I now have some jigs for setting up CBS which will makes things better and I'll have to read up on it a bit more.

Keep Safe

Dave

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Mike Garwood » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:38 pm

Certainly looks the part. Nicely done.

Mike

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:40 pm

Thanks Mike. It's passed all it's test, mainly not falling off the track and has now officially entered service.

Keep Safe

Dave

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Steve Carter
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Steve Carter » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:45 pm

So are you looking for a new project now Dave?
I understand the Stores sell two versions of some really nice lever frame kits :mrgreen:

Happy New Year mate

Take care and stay safe. :thumb
Steve Carter

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PeteT
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby PeteT » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:08 pm

Well it certainly looks worth the effort Dave!

I'm in 2 minds when I get to my 4F easi-chas of trying effectively using the easi chas as a replacement chassis, and fitting the inside motion kit (though I think it needs altering from the instructions to work properly?). The use of the easi-chas would still be beneficial as a starting point as t is designed for the Bachmann footplate. Anyhow, that isnt particularly near the top of the queue so won't be happening for a while!

Are you straight onto more 4Fs, or diverting to something else for a bit?

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Serjt-Dave » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:12 pm

Hi Steve and Pete.

Steve. Please stop selling me leaver frames. My wife is getting very suspicious. LOL. Besides I still have lots to do from my shelf of shame, which was empty but now seems fall again.

Pete. The easi-chassis can only be an improvement on their kit version. LOL. One of the issues I had with the inside motion was the fact that you made half of it in the chassis and the rest can be made up off the chassis. But the problem I found is you've got to try and man handle the motion support bracket into place between the frames whilst try to locate the piston rods and connecting rods into the slide bars, which in turn have to be located into the motion support bracket whilst trying to get the motion support bracket into it's slots which have etches of rivet details either side of the slots. And on the other side of the motion support bracket you have all the con rods, eccentric, cam, driving axle, hornblocks and a whole of wobbly bits that are fragile and don't like being bent about. When I get round to my next 4f, I plan to have the inside motion being able to slide into place as a whole unit. Like with your 1p design, where the motion support bracket has etched groves enabling the bracket to be slid in from the bottom of the chassis. But my next 4f build is sometime off {I'm still paying off my therapist}.

Keep Safe

Dave

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Horsetan
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Re: Brassmaster 4F The journey

Postby Horsetan » Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:47 pm

Serjt-Dave wrote:.... two other Brassmaster 4f's I got were very cheap as well, I wonder why?? ...


Et tu, Brute? Et tu? :lol:

Serjt-Dave wrote:...Steve. Please stop selling me leaver frames....


Are those frames specifically for leaving? Or can they be used for departing as well? :mrgreen:
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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